Thread: Gunman in nebraska mall kills eight

Yeah, I've been watching this all day. I heard the count was 9, though, so I hope you're right and one more actually got out alive than was previously reported.

I have a feeling these mass-killing are only going to get more and more frequent, as time goes on. It seems to be a new trend, unless I'm just now becoming aware of their frequency.

and barricade themselves in dressing rooms

i had no idea that dressing room doors are bullet proof. is this new? but seriously who hides in a dressing room? it would have been better for them to leave with the crowd because if they're in a large group of people it's less likely for them to get shot.

well if they do get more frequent then the saving grace wil be that law enforcement will get tough on it. i think the only penalty for murder (no matter the reason and insanity or under the influence of drugs is not a scapegoat) should be death. hell if the death penalty was more widley used then there would be fewer crimes

Don't give Jdog a death note.

I don't think so, Jdog. Think about it. This guy obviously didn't like his life very much, and he killed himself. If he was caught, he would be glad to be killed since he was intending to anyways and didn't like his life. The complete opposite of what he wants is to live in shitty circumstances for his entire life being raped by large muscular men. I think life imprisonment is much more effective not to mention morally just than capital punishment. Capital Punishment is killing people who kill people to show people that killing people is wrong. The logic is infallible, huh.

Wow, you guys get a few of these a year ...

no not usualy. this year though weve had a college shooting and then this happens so this is actualy a very bad year.

Is this because it's easier to get a firearm in America?

I'm not aware of anywhere near the frequency of shoot-outs in Britain by disillusioned young males as in America.

I don't think so, Jdog. Think about it. This guy obviously didn't like his life very much, and he killed himself. If he was caught, he would be glad to be killed since he was intending to anyways and didn't like his life. The complete opposite of what he wants is to live in shitty circumstances for his entire life being raped by large muscular men. I think life imprisonment is much more effective not to mention morally just than capital punishment. Capital Punishment is killing people who kill people to show people that killing people is wrong. The logic is infallible, huh.

So very true. If someone is so troubled, killing him/her is not going to solve the problem. I feel sorry for individuals like this and wish I could have the power to help their mentality. People like this need help. That is all that can be said.

Lets not forget the ruckus in finland.

It's on the rise.


Columbine it seems, was the first of many.

Personally, and I don't mean for this to offend, I feel that people always respond so negatively towards the gunmen in these situations, when in reality they aren't evil, evil people who want to kill every man, woman and child for their own pleasure (generally). I think it's important to try and relate, and realise that the gunman was probably mentally unsound, or depressed, and his mind probably in turmoil. It's not his fault. Although I do feel sorry for the victims, I also feel sorry for the gunman and don't think that punishment is appropriate. These people were all victims of existence.

P.S. I know I'm going to get flamed about this post, but it's my honest opinion.

P.P.S. And yes, I would still (consciously) not feel angry at the gunman if someone close to me was a victim. I would be very, very upset, but I would still maintain that it wasn't his fault.

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

Personally, and I don't mean for this to offend, I feel that people always respond so negatively towards the gunmen in these situations, when in reality they aren't evil, evil people who want to kill every man, woman and child for their own pleasure (generally). I think it's important to try and relate, and realise that the gunman was probably mentally unsound, or depressed, and his mind probably in turmoil. It's not his fault. Although I do feel sorry for the victims, I also feel sorry for the gunman and don't think that punishment is appropriate. These people were all victims of existence.

P.S. I know I'm going to get flamed about this post, but it's my honest opinion.

P.P.S. And yes, I would still (consciously) not feel angry at the gunman if someone close to me was a victim. I would be very, very upset, but I would still maintain that it wasn't his fault.

In their state of mind, they do want to kill every man woman and child for their own pleasure. Imagine if everyone who was a little depressed did this, being able to control our emotions is one of the main things that sets us apart from the animals.

I think the murders are just out to get back at people that have hurt them, and no one else. Or they target specific people for a reason. Sometimes they just lose it, but it usually seems most of these gunmen have a motive.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

In their state of mind, they do want to kill every man woman and child for their own pleasure. Imagine if everyone who was a little depressed did this, being able to control our emotions is one of the main things that sets us apart from the animals.

Think about this a little more. Most of these gunmen aren't just crazy death obsessed psychopaths. Most of them feel like they've been driven to do something like this by the people around them. And have reasons that they try to justify their actions with. Remember the red lake shooting that happend last year here in Minnesota? The kid that did it didn't just go into the school with some guns and start shooting people. No. He wasn't insane, he wasn't killing people just because he wanted to. He had reasons. At one point he went up to people and asked them "Do you believe there is a god?" if they answered no, they got to see the sunrise the next morning. However, if they answered yes, that simple three letter word ended their nasty oxygen habit.

Also, It seems your implying we're better than animals. Why is that?

Originally Posted by Jdog

well if they do get more frequent then the saving grace wil be that law enforcement will get tough on it. i think the only penalty for murder (no matter the reason and insanity or under the influence of drugs is not a scapegoat) should be death. hell if the death penalty was more widley used then there would be fewer crimes

Law enforcement can't do shit about stuff like this. When someone grabs a shotgun and a .357 and goes for a human soul shopping spree unless their are cops everywhere there's nothing they can do about these short raids through crowds of people.

Originally Posted by Siиdяed

Is this because it's easier to get a firearm in America?

I'm not aware of anywhere near the frequency of shoot-outs in Britain by disillusioned young males as in America.

It's not because it's easier to get a gun. It's because this country has a lot more people than Britain, so the chances of something like this happening is greater here.

Also, most people in this country couldn't care less about people and their problems. Until they do something like this...

And to finish off my strongly opinionated post I will say that all of these gunmen aren't always horrible people. Last month I talked to a good friend of one of my good friends. He was a kind intelligent person and I enjoyed talking to him. When he mentioned he just got out of prison I reluctantly asked him what he was in for... Turns out he was Cory Leanord. The kid who ten years ago freaked and shot one of the cops in front of OUR high school and made state history by comitting the first school shooting in the state of Minnesota... But like I said, he was a kind surprisingly intelligent person... and is now a friend of mine.

Originally Posted by Grexxis

Think about this a little more. Most of these gunmen aren't just crazy death obsessed psychopaths. Most of them feel like they've been driven to do something like this by the people around them. And have reasons that they try to justify their actions with. Remember the red lake shooting that happend last year here in Minnesota? The kid that did it didn't just go into the school with some guns and start shooting people. No. He wasn't insane, he wasn't killing people just because he wanted to. He had reasons. At one point he went up to people and asked them "Do you believe there is a god?" if they answered no, they got to see the sunrise the next morning. However, if they answered yes, that simple three letter word ended their nasty oxygen habit.

Actually, most gunmen are death obsessed. They plan their rampage meticulously and they often leave sadistic and aggressive journals, suicide notes, internet blogs, etc. Everyone has problems, but it takes someone with no morals and no honour whatsoever to use them as an excuse to kill innocent people. Now you're asking me to sympathize for a mass murderer because he only killed religious people? These people had families, lives, futures, and you're asking me to forgive a gunmen for taking all of that away just because he couldn't properly handle a bully? "Nasty oxygen habbit", do you really have so little respect for human life? Even then, most rampages are random shootings, the desperate attempt of sociopaths to go out with a bang and take as many people with them, all to make everyone feel as miserable as they do. So no, I will not empathize with anyone who has so much contempt for life.

And yes, we are better than animals. We're on top of the food chain, we're evolutionarily more advanced and we have to capability to make conscient, rational decisions that serve a greater good, allthough this isn't so obvious at times...

One more thing, intelligence and charisma say very little about a person's psyche. Just look at Hitler, he was pretty horrible...

First of all, thank you Grexxis for supporting me. Or at least having the same viewpoint.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Actually, most gunmen are death obsessed. They plan their rampage meticulously and they often leave sadistic and aggressive journals, suicide notes, internet blogs, etc. Everyone has problems, but it takes someone with no morals and no honour whatsoever to use them as an excuse to kill innocent people. Now you're asking me to sympathize for a mass murderer because he only killed religious people? These people had families, lives, futures, and you're asking me to forgive a gunmen for taking all of that away just because he couldn't properly handle a bully? "Nasty oxygen habbit", do you really have so little respect for human life? Even then, most rampages are random shootings, the desperate attempt of sociopaths to go out with a bang and take as many people with them, all to make everyone feel as miserable as they do. So no, I will not empathize with anyone who has so much contempt for life.

And yes, we are better than animals. We're on top of the food chain, we're evolutionarily more advanced and we have to capability to make conscient, rational decisions that serve a greater good, allthough this isn't so obvious at times...

One more thing, intelligence and charisma say very little about a person's psyche. Just look at Hitler, he was pretty horrible...

You talk about respect for the victims. But the murderer himself is a victim of nature. Surely he deserves the same respect. We can't help our morales or mental state (I'm a determinist). Not all mass murderers are evil people. Some are just tormented by life and want to end it all. As for wanting to make other people miserable, I don't think that's the case all the time. Some just aren't able to see the value of life, or could have a variety of other mental 'problems' that again they can't help having. Everyone in these situations are victims. No one is to blame except existence.

How can you say we are better than animals? Evolutionarily more advanced? Do you realise how easily the entire human race could be wiped out by a disease? How do you know that animals can't make 'rational' decisions? The 'rationality' of decisions is entirely subjective. Morals and the 'value of life' are subjective. You are viewing the human race as a whole, as you yourself infer by saying 'the greater good'. You're saying that everyone who doesn't think like you should be punished. Human beings are individuals. The greater good does not exist. Everything is subjective.

Feel free to poke holes in my argument

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

Not all mass murderers are evil people. Some are just tormented by life and want to end it all.

Feel free to end your life.. just take no one else's with you when you go.

Originally Posted by Clairity

Feel free to end your life.. just take no one else's with you when you go.

Yes, but some of these people, as I mentioned, have different views on life from most people.

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

You talk about respect for the victims. But the murderer himself is a victim of nature. Surely he deserves the same respect. We can't help our morales or mental state (I'm a determinist). Not all mass murderers are evil people. Some are just tormented by life and want to end it all. As for wanting to make other people miserable, I don't think that's the case all the time. Some just aren't able to see the value of life, or could have a variety of other mental 'problems' that again they can't help having. Everyone in these situations are victims. No one is to blame except existence.

And that justifies killing innocent people ? Why is murder a crime then?

How can you say we are better than animals? Evolutionarily more advanced? Do you realise how easily the entire human race could be wiped out by a disease? How do you know that animals can't make 'rational' decisions? The 'rationality' of decisions is entirely subjective. Morals and the 'value of life' are subjective. You are viewing the human race as a whole, as you yourself infer by saying 'the greater good'. You're saying that everyone who doesn't think like you should be punished. Human beings are individuals. The greater good does not exist. Everything is subjective.

We're better in the sense that we are the most advanced species on the planet (that we know of, but that's 99,9% certain). Which is why I can talk to you from this computer over the internet and a chicken could not.

Originally Posted by Siиdяed

Is this because it's easier to get a firearm in America?

I'm not aware of anywhere near the frequency of shoot-outs in Britain by disillusioned young males as in America.

Its easier for a criminal to get a gun in America than it is for a law abiding citizen. The irony is that the tighter the gun control laws get the more violent crimes increase.

All Government has done is create a large database tracking law abiding gun owners and this has nothing to do at all with crime fighting, as the criminals are not going to register.

If one follows the statistics, States with the right to carry concealed weapons have lower rates of violent crime than those that do not. Its not because those legally carrying guns use them so much as it is the criminals just dont know who is armed and who is not. Instead of having free reign and only having to worry about the cops interfereing with their crime they end up having to play "russian Roulette" everytime they decide to commit a crime involving another individual.

All the mass media shows is the Killings of innocent people to the world by gun toting criminals or metally ill individuals. What the mass media does not show is all the people that are saved each day in America by having a gun handy. The stories are there but go unreported everywhere but the most local of levels.

Reason and Logic are definately not behind Americas Gun control laws in relation to fighting crime.

Of course there are those cases where citizens armed or not, is not going to stop a crime form being comitted, but the more citizens that are armed the more potential there is of stopping a crime earlier in the crime.

Since when did DV become a news station?

This just in, Jeff: DV became a news station earlier today. Let's go to Burns on the ground for more information.

Burns?

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Since when did DV become a news station?

There is value in discussing world-wide current events.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

And that justifies killing innocent people ? Why is murder a crime then?

But in my opinion the murderer is innocent too. And I never said that murder is a crime. Sure, someone has to be blamed for society to function, but no one (in my opinion) is really to blame.

We're better in the sense that we are the most advanced species on the planet (that we know of, but that's 99,9% certain). Which is why I can talk to you from this computer over the internet and a chicken could not.

Your arrogance really astounds me. You do have a point, but we only excell in our intellect (and I stress, as far as we know). In almost all other aspects; strength, reproduction, life cycle, immunity to disease, we fall short of superiority. Sharks are arguably the most advanced species on the planet, having evolved for so many millions of years more than humans. Birds have been evolving since before the extinction of the dinosaurs. Do you think humans could survive an asteroid impact of that magnitude? The superior species is the species that can survive and adapt when confronted with massive change. What if the volcano beneath yellowstone national park erupts, the skies cloud over, temperatures plummet and crops don't grow. Is it really that likely that we can survive such an apocalypse with just our intellect?

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

But in my opinion the murderer is innocent too. And I never said that murder is a crime. Sure, someone has to be blamed for society to function, but no one (in my opinion) is really to blame.






Your arrogance really astounds me. You do have a point, but we only excell in our intellect (and I stress, as far as we know). In almost all other aspects; strength, reproduction, life cycle, immunity to disease, we fall short of superiority. Sharks are arguably the most advanced species on the planet, having evolved for so many millions of years more than humans. Birds have been evolving since before the extinction of the dinosaurs. Do you think humans could survive an asteroid impact of that magnitude? The superior species is the species that can survive and adapt when confronted with massive change. What if the volcano beneath yellowstone national park erupts, the skies cloud over, temperatures plummet and crops don't grow. Is it really that likely that we can survive such an apocalypse with just our intellect?

The point of intellect is that it makes up for all of those ther attributes you've listed.

For example intellect creates armour, steroids, weaponry, so that at last we become superior in all walks.

We're nearly there now.