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    1. #1
      Happy Dreamer Lucius's Avatar
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      New "I'm Leaving" topic

      Continue talking about the old "Im leaving" topic by ffx-dreamz, the orginal has been moved to the moderators forum so we can discuss it in private aswell.

      This is what ws written so far:

      Hey people, just wanted to tell you all that I'm leaving, I just don't have time, Its 1:40 on a school night, I should be asleep, but nooo this is the ONLY time all day I can freely visit here, and I'm tired of it..

      But, its also the community that is driving me away, it just doesn't feel like a warm friendly place anymore, I don't like where it is headed.

      Anyway, I'm not gonna be around hardly at all till I find the time(which is rarely).

      So...later people...if you care.
      I don't know what ever happened to the community, perhaps we became to big? I don't know, perhaps its us older members that are just drifting away slowly, little by little replaced by newer people.

      Its a shame to see you leave, like I said..we all just drift away little by little =/

      Well, good luck with school,your future and your dreams.

      ~Lucius
      Well that's the thing, old people are indeed fading away, and for one reason: This board is not our own anymore. The newbs have taken over. I don't really feel at home anymore, like I once did. This drives us community members away, and it further weighs in for those that are left. It was inevitable, meant to be. Nothing is ever meant to last, and we didn't really do anything to avoid this from happening. In fact, I think we did quite the opposite. The adoption and dream guide programs indeed fulfilled their purpose, and, as I forsaw, they ended up destroying the community and making us feel like strangers in our own home. Anyway, I'll stop ranting.

      See you around Ffx, I hope you will still visit from time to time. I will make sure I don't go down without a fight, and I hope I won't have to be joining you in absense too....
      Well, I think that it is a little mean that your leaving. I mean, shure there are new people comming, and I don't think its fair that just becase new people are comming in that the experienced ones are leave the noobs all by themselves. I wasnt here when this site started, but even in the short time that I've been here I have seen how much the site has grown, and I think its a wonderfull thing. I still feal a great sence of commity when I come here beacse of all the diversity and helpfull responces I get, particualry form the longer-lasting members. More people are getting interested in this topic and there are more topics and post to respond to and learn from. Well, its your desion to leave and Your leaving us will be a great loss to all the knowlage that you could of continued to give and share. Bye.
      This is not about lucid dreaming, this is about how the community is dying. I don't mind helping people ld, in fact that is one of the reasons I am a dream guide. I try to help as much as I can in that dept, but in exchange all I want is to be able to post in the lounge and senseless and have a good time. As of late, I have been unable to do so comfortably. I can't just selflessly stay here as a drone and answer everyone's questions, I refuse to do that. I generally did so cause I knew that I was supporting the community and I was having a great time while at it. Don't get me wrong, this is not about you in particular, or about most members, its just about something that once was, a dynamic that was unmatchable, that is now lost. I don't have fun at DV anymore, and that truly puts things in perspective
      [quote]
      I know that I'm new, but even I know what you're getting at, there are just too many people posting the same topic over and over again, or bringing up dead ones. It has even become imature, which is the opposite reason to the one I joined, I joined because it seemed to take a more mature slant to LDing than all of the other dream forums I've visited, but now...



      RIP Dreamviews
      [quote]Lucius pretty much got it. A lot of the old members are drifitng away

      [quote]
      I noticed a difference in the few months Ive been here, and plus I used to read this site way before I joined. There's a n00b explosion, where I cant seem to recognize anyone with a post count under 500(in general). So Ive basically withdrawn from most things lrecently, as it all does get a bit tiring. Same questions. Lots of people asking questions without reading around, because the answers are all there. Maybe a huge FAQ is needed.

      But Il still remain a light presence here. And If I had been around in the beggining I bet I would have withdrawn a bit earlier.
      I'm new here, but I've been to many many forums on the internet at various times. I've been members of ones as they started out and watched them start falling apart as the grew. I've been to growing ones. I've been to ones that had matured. All forums have a growth cycle. All experience these problems and it is nothing unique to this forum.

      Right now appears to be the make or break point. From what you older members are saying, I would guess the forum is somewhere in what we might call its \"puberty\" stage (growth stage). This is the point where either forums endure and grow into a mature, tight-knit community or fade away into nothing, or perhaps worse, forever remain in this stage.

      One problem I see is that there are very few to none of the moderators stepping up to take the necessary steps to ensure the forum gets to maturity. It cannot make it there on its own.
      Possibly some sort of validation is in order? Just an idea, but maybe a new group who run a sort of validation forum where new users can only start topics, once this group is sure that these members understand the basics, maybe validating them? I go to a hell of a lot of forums like that, they work VERY well. PM if you want a better description.
      That sounds like an excellent idea...maybe this should go to feedback, so we know icedawg is reading it.
      "You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection."
      ~Buddha

    2. #2
      Member Kaniaz's Avatar
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      I would of thought this was something the community would discuss, y'know, because they're the people primarily concerned. I guess. But I suppose all moderators need to discuss first, so yeah.

    3. #3
      Member gameover's Avatar
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      why did you take our topic?! Cant you guys make your own and reference the original? Whatever...this place makes no sense sometimes....
      I'm in Chasing Mars, one of Chicago's best [link removed - ask for permision]indie rock bands[/url]! <------CLICK FOR FREE MUSIC

    4. #4
      Happy Dreamer Lucius's Avatar
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      Umm, I would give it back but it seems its stuck in the mod forum I cant move it, I figured you could actually still look at the shadow topic and continue discussing here, my apologies, it seems you cant, let me see what I can do
      "You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection."
      ~Buddha

    5. #5
      Happy Dreamer Lucius's Avatar
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      I fixed the first post, its just temporarily this way, nothing else I can do right now, only ice and seeker can move topics from the mod forums I think, again Im sorry I made a little mistake, but this should do?

      Lets try and discuss the above, do you agree when somebody says we the mods, and perhaps everybody else aswell is not trying hard enough to help the forum evolve properly? Are we stuck in teenage years? Or is that rubbish, lets see what we all think. Again sorry about the orginal topic.
      "You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection."
      ~Buddha

    6. #6
      Member Kaniaz's Avatar
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      Yes. We are. I hold an opinon that some things that need to die (adoptions) if we're to grow up, essentialy. Adoptions took the whole "be nice" thing too far, I think. D: I want a topic about this in the community forum, emphasis on community; because...How can I say this nicely. I don't care what somebody who has been here 3 weeks and has 60 posts thinks.

    7. #7
      bleak... nerve's Avatar
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      damnit gameover, everytime I see your signiture I want to get my GBSP out and play super mario world. I beat all the secret star worlds and bowser and everything but it's only 92 percent complete, or something. what the crap am I missing. >:(


      Ignorant bliss is an oxymoron; but so is miserable truth.

    8. #8
      Member KalmaH's Avatar
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      I felt the forum was "dying" since a long time ago. Truly is a shame.
      Early Morning Moment,
      A Glimpse of Joy,
      But soon it's Over, and I return to Dust...

    9. #9
      Member gameover's Avatar
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      Originally posted by Lucius
      Lets try and discuss the above, do you agree when somebody says we the mods, and perhaps everybody else aswell is not trying hard enough to help the forum evolve properly? Are we stuck in teenage years? Or is that rubbish, lets see what we all think. Again sorry about the orginal topic.
      I think we really need to rack our brains and come up with a system. I started to post something quite long and as I was writing it got more and more intricate. It goes beyond what I've thoguht out yet. So Im personally working on some ideas. Organizing them and putting them together. I will post as soon as its done, since this problem involves two conflicting interest. We want to keep two things alive. Helping people become lucid. And keeping the friendly, and dynamic community* alive...without being drowned by all the n00bs. Well...I have some ideas but I need to materialize them on paper first.

      THe revolution is upon us. This site is growing faster than it can handle, so it's time to grow.

      *and by Community I don't mean the "community" that you have now. Thats more of an old timers club, that doesnt seem to help anything.
      I'm in Chasing Mars, one of Chicago's best [link removed - ask for permision]indie rock bands[/url]! <------CLICK FOR FREE MUSIC

    10. #10
      Member Scwigglie's Avatar
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      Omg, I'm feeling none of this "loss of a community" thing.. I always get the impression that newbies post once in a while, and the regulars are the ones that post in the lounge, senseless, that sort of thing.


      Quin custodiet custodes ipsos?

    11. #11
      explore Demerzel's Avatar
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      Hrm....(you missed my post in the first topic )

      I feel it outside of the board. When talking to people on MSN etc.

      It sucks. Big time.
      [22:59] <Kaniaz> You basically did a massive shit on the rug of this IRC
      [22:59] <Kaniaz> And called it a message

    12. #12
      Member Kaniaz's Avatar
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      *and by Community I don't mean the \"community\" that you have now. Thats more of an old timers club, that doesnt seem to help anything.[/b]
      You keep banging on about this yet you give no reasons.

    13. #13
      Member gameover's Avatar
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      Im not bagging. I could care less about it. It jsut doesnt solve the problem of keeping the meat of the community alive. Its very half-assed. Just a little corner of the forum for nothing. I don't totally understand its purpose is all. I have no problem with it.
      I'm in Chasing Mars, one of Chicago's best [link removed - ask for permision]indie rock bands[/url]! <------CLICK FOR FREE MUSIC

    14. #14
      Member Finde's Avatar
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      Hey, you kinda missed out my post...
      Raised by: Ffx-Dreamz and readopted by Ophelia

    15. #15
      CT
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      [quote]
      Omg, I'm feeling none of this \"loss of a community\" thing.. I always get the impression that newbies post once in a while, and the regulars are the ones that post in the lounge, senseless, that sort of thing.
      Well, to be quite honest, thats because perhaps you've not really seen what it used to be, which was the reason I stayed here...
      Not something most of the err, 'new' regulars might understand, but it used to be quite special here.
      Dreamviews has evolved from that point, for some people in a good way, for some people in a bad way.
      I cant pin-point the cause, and I dont pretend to have an answer.
      But since a long while, I've felt that dreamviews was deteriorating.
      I have been clinging to the thoughts and memories about how great it used to be, hoping things would improve.
      I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, I've discussed it with a couple of other people, and I just noticed from the lack of other regulars still actively posting. New regulars have emerged, sure.
      And most of them are great additions to our pool of regulars.
      (dramatic pause) ... I guess its just an end of a Dreamviews-era, and it will continue now, with a fresh batch of regulars.

    16. #16
      Member gameover's Avatar
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      Jealousy?[/b]
      Yes...Im jealous. Jealous of a deteriorating old-timers club on the internet

      Im not here to feel special and part of a "club". Im hear to learn. Maybe thier shoudl simply be different levels in this place. Like a school. Keep the people who have lots of trouble in one forum. The intermeidates in another. And the pros in another area. No walls. Just guidelines.

      EDIT: should this go to feedback?
      I'm in Chasing Mars, one of Chicago's best [link removed - ask for permision]indie rock bands[/url]! <------CLICK FOR FREE MUSIC

    17. #17
      Member Finde's Avatar
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      I know this sounds a bit drastic but can't you turn off the new sign-ups and kinda get everyone to calm down a bit (since it's been ultimo-crazy everywhere) and let everyone get settled in and stuff... Only bad things is people might 1. sign up all at once when we turn sign ups on again or 2. nobody will sign up at all...
      Raised by: Ffx-Dreamz and readopted by Ophelia

    18. #18
      Member AcidBasick's Avatar
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      I don't understand this at all.

      Keep in mind, I've only been here for about four months and have been lurking mostly during that time, thus the sixty some posts, so this is from a 'n00b's' (I hate that word; very alienating) perspective.

      There are two sides to every coin. On the one hand, you all are feeling restricted and inundated by the 'explosion' of members. You feel as though this is a club and only those who have been here for a year or so should be allowed in. Or rather, you feel that there should be less new members. At the same time, you must realize that what you are doing here in this thread is creating the almost identical feeling that you are experiencing and putting it onto the new users. We feel restricted by the relationships you share with each other and the 'I dislike you because you are invading my community' attitude.

      I want a topic about this in the community forum, emphasis on community; because...How can I say this nicely. I don't care what somebody who has been here 3 weeks and has 60 posts thinks.[/b]
      After all, you were born into this community; knew everyone here and didn't have to do a thing. Emphasis on community - a group of people with a common characteristic or interest living together within a larger society.

      Every person who signs up to this forum has a common interest. Every person either wants to learn more about lucid dreaming and dream themselves, or they want to ask questions about lucid dreaming. We are all dreamers. In my view, and the view of that definition, we are all a part of this community.

      I don't know, perhaps its us older members that are just drifting away slowly, little by little replaced by newer people. [/b]
      Well that's the thing, old people are indeed fading away, and for one reason: This board is not our own anymore. The newbs have taken over. I don't really feel at home anymore, like I once did.[/b]
      Things change. People move on. We are not replacing you, you are leaving under your own will.

      You see, most people have this big phobia that change is bad. It makes them uncomfortable. They become distraught and angry and try to lash out at the change. Usually, if you accept the change as it is and become a part of the change, you can find it even better then the way things were before.

      For instance, the new dreamers that visit the site will share more information about lucid dreaming and their experiences, possibly enhancing your own. Or, maybe you will accept those people and allow them to form a relationship with yourself. Perhaps those same people will grow into lucid dreaming and be able to investigate the dream world further. More users will relay dreaming to their peers and make it more acceptable and more attainable in your life. Maybe someone that joins this form will make affordable dream goggles, or discover a more powerful vitamin for lucid dreaming. They may share their art with you - or philsophy.

      This is not about lucid dreaming, this is about how the community is dying.[/b]
      That sounds strange on two levels. The first, that this isn't about lucid dreaming. If it is not about lucid dreaming, then what is it about? About being pals and talking amoungst yourselves? Please, if that is the case, change the name to 'Members Only'. The second is that the community is dying. It seems that the exact opposite is occuring and that the new members are making the community stronger. Some may post once and leave. Others may stay until fifty or sixty posts and move on. However, there will be a few that decide to remain here and try to become a part of it. Is it so much to ask to make room for a few more?


      I, too, have been a member at other online forums. I stayed at one for a particularly long time and became immersed in it. Eventually, people slowly moved away from it and new users began to join. However, I enjoyed helping out those people and teaching them about the ways of the forum. Some even became more respected and a part of the known members. If it were just me and the older members, it wouldn't be nearly as fun.


      In the end, I apologize for destroying your clique. I deeply regret my involvement here at Dreamviews for causing the downfall of you all. I don't want to interfere with your comfort zone nor with your happiness. If you would like me to leave, I certainly will. And I'm sure if you impose a validation rule you will make sure that new members will never get close to you.

      We just wanted to lucid dream with the rest of you.

      Number of Lucid Dreams: 14
      Last Lucid Dream: November 14, 2004

    19. #19
      Member gameover's Avatar
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      I dont think you understand the other dynamic here. This dynamic not about n00bs invading the community. Its about having it all mixed up and having the same topics being posted again and again and again and again and....
      The problem is that this place has become a great place for starting on your lucid quest, but become less friendly to those who have gone far with it already. I loved this place when I came. And as Ive progressed feel like the conversations that matter to me are mostly done in PM or in chat.

      Thats my perspecitve on it anyways. Thats why I like the idea of having different levels..but not walls.
      I'm in Chasing Mars, one of Chicago's best [link removed - ask for permision]indie rock bands[/url]! <------CLICK FOR FREE MUSIC

    20. #20
      CT
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      Okay so we're wrong now, sure.
      I shall just ignore that I, for some reason, dont enjoy posting here anymore and keep on posting for the sake of the newbies.

    21. #21
      Member Finde's Avatar
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      Hey, AcidBasick I think that you're just telling all us n00bs to get scrwed or something but I mean they've made the dream guides so they must be wanting to welcome us! (I think I take back what I said...)
      Raised by: Ffx-Dreamz and readopted by Ophelia

    22. #22
      Member gameover's Avatar
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      Originally posted by CT
      Okay so we're wrong now, sure.
      I shall just ignore that I, for some reason, dont enjoy posting here anymore and keep on posting for the sake of the newbies.
      Exactly. "posting for the sake of the newbies". Id rather work on where IM at now, and theres just not a whole lot of that going around.
      I'm in Chasing Mars, one of Chicago's best [link removed - ask for permision]indie rock bands[/url]! <------CLICK FOR FREE MUSIC

    23. #23
      Member AcidBasick's Avatar
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      Its about having it all mixed up and having the same topics being posted again and again and again and again and....
      [/b]
      It's the same with all online communities.

      I really don't see that as being the main problem here. If it were, you would simply impose a search before you post etiquette type rule.

      Okay so we're wrong now, sure.
      I shall just ignore that I, for some reason, dont enjoy posting here anymore and keep on posting for the sake of the newbies.[/b]
      Why is it about someone being wrong?

      Like I said, there are two sides.


      In the end, you all are the most important on the forum. The rest of us are expendable. I thought I would give a different perspective on the issue since we are on other sides of the fence.

      Number of Lucid Dreams: 14
      Last Lucid Dream: November 14, 2004

    24. #24
      Member Kaniaz's Avatar
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      Our fences aren't picket fences....

    25. #25
      Member gameover's Avatar
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      Originally posted by AcidBasick
      Its about having it all mixed up and having the same topics being posted again and again and again and again and....
      It's the same with all online communities.

      I really don't see that as being the main problem here. If it were, you would simply impose a search before you post etiquette type rule.[/b]
      Thats not it. I just dont feel like the forum takes care of and welcomes the more advanced like it does the begginers.

      Maybe it sucks, but I still like the idea of having different levels. Begginer intermediate and advanced. But I dont know whats right. Just throing out ideas.
      I'm in Chasing Mars, one of Chicago's best [link removed - ask for permision]indie rock bands[/url]! <------CLICK FOR FREE MUSIC

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