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    1. #1
      Emotionally unsatisfied. Sandform's Avatar
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      What constitutes saying a life has been saved?

      At what point can you say "so and so saved my life?"

      Is simply being there to see something happen and calling the appropriate authorities saving a life if that person would have died had you not done so?

      Who is able to claim the title of "saving a life" when calling an ambulance? Is the person who happened upon a person dieing and called the ambulance worth being said to have saved a life or is it only permitted to say the paramedic or surgeon saved the life?

      Is picking someone up from the bottom of a pool saving their life if you don't have to give mouth to mouth?

      Is stopping someone from driving drunk saving a life?

      Does saving a person's life require saving them strictly from death?

      I don't know, opinions?

      Also, has anyone here ever saved a life or had their own life saved by another?

    2. #2
      !DIREKTOR! Adam's Avatar
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      Good question.

      I noticed my friend drowning in a pool once, dived in and got him out, at the time I couldn't swim either which was stupid, but I guess instint took over -- did I save his life? I don't know, he might have been okay, he might not have...

    3. #3
      Emotionally unsatisfied. Sandform's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Adam View Post
      Good question.

      I noticed my friend drowning in a pool once, dived in and got him out, at the time I couldn't swim either which was stupid, but I guess instint took over -- did I save his life? I don't know, he might have been okay, he might not have...
      Personally I would have to say the only person who can say whether you did or not, for certain, is the person who you pulled out from the pool.

      How old were you? You couldn't swim? Hehe.

    4. #4
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      lol my brother saved me from almost drowning in a pool when i was 10.
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      The Anti-Member spockman's Avatar
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      I'm pretty sure that I've saved quite a few babies from possible serious injury... I don't know if any of them would have died. All of my baby saving instances have actually been different babies but in the same room. The worship room of my old church. Odd.
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    6. #6
      Omnipotent Being. nitsuJ's Avatar
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      I believe, like you stated Sandform, only the person you "save" can make the call.

      Even then, it'd be hard to do. We don't know if we saved their life or not. I could be saving your life right now by you reading this. I may be stopping you from doing something that'll kill you. It's hard to make the call, because we don't know what'd happen if we didn't make the choice that "saves" a life.

    7. #7
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      It's a figure of speech. To delve into it any deeper than that would quickly become silly.

    8. #8
      Emotionally unsatisfied. Sandform's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by drewmandan View Post
      It's a figure of speech. To delve into it any deeper than that would quickly become silly.
      I think that quite often is not a figure of speech at all.

      Doctors certainly aren't saving lives in a way that by describing it would be a "figure of speech."

      However, there are many cases where people are saying that their lives were saved when they were never in jeopardy of death. I might let someone get off by saying someone saved their life if someone saved them from being mangled, but still what they are really saying is someone saved the quality of my life, not life itself, and sometimes the person hasn't even really saved them from anything.

      Also, if you save some one's life only to have their quality of life lowered severely, did you really save their life or did you just screw them over?



      I wonder, if a person who calls an ambulance has "saved a life," should we be thanking the people who provide the phone service, or invented the phone, or invented the car, sell the gas, etc. as well? Is it arbitrary to draw the line at the people directly involved? Certainly it is true that we say people who develop cures "save lives," then it should be said that telephones "save lives" as well.
      Last edited by Sandform; 11-18-2008 at 09:28 PM.

    9. #9
      !DIREKTOR! Adam's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sandform View Post
      Personally I would have to say the only person who can say whether you did or not, for certain, is the person who you pulled out from the pool.

      How old were you? You couldn't swim? Hehe.
      I was about 14 I think lol - I don't like water, I am claustrophobic, and being under water is not good for me, I don't know, it's stupid really.

      But I learnt after that

    10. #10
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      That's funny, Adam. I'm quite claustrophobic(to the point of panic attacks in very crowded trains & buses), but I find being under water very freeing.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Sandform View Post
      I think that quite often is not a figure of speech at all.

      Doctors certainly aren't saving lives in a way that by describing it would be a "figure of speech."
      First, if you're going to say that doctors literally save lives, then you must also say that the nurses save lives, and the rest of the staff, as well as the paramedics that bring patients to the ER, the teachers that taught all these people, the people that design and build medical tools, the people that built the hospital, the people that provide running water and electricity, the people that invented running water and electricity, hell, you'll have to include pretty much everyone.

    12. #12
      Emotionally unsatisfied. Sandform's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by drewmandan View Post
      First, if you're going to say that doctors literally save lives, then you must also say that the nurses save lives, and the rest of the staff, as well as the paramedics that bring patients to the ER, the teachers that taught all these people, the people that design and build medical tools, the people that built the hospital, the people that provide running water and electricity, the people that invented running water and electricity, hell, you'll have to include pretty much everyone.

      Which is the point of the thread and, in fact, the post you quoted...

      Quote Originally Posted by Sandform
      I wonder, if a person who calls an ambulance has "saved a life," should we be thanking the people who provide the phone service, or invented the phone, or invented the car, sell the gas, etc. as well? Is it arbitrary to draw the line at the people directly involved? Certainly it is true that we say people who develop cures "save lives," then it should be said that telephones "save lives" as well.
      Do you not think that a Doctor does not literally save lives? Do you not think Nurses literally save lives?


      XXX Edit, I can't really say that you are "wrong" since technically it is just an opinion.
      Last edited by Sandform; 11-19-2008 at 12:25 AM.

    13. #13
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      At what point can you say "so and so saved my life?"
      Depends on the situation.

      Is simply being there to see something happen and calling the appropriate authorities saving a life if that person would have died had you not done so?
      If it's most likely that that person would have died, had you not done so, then I'd say yes - It would be fair to say you saved that person's life.

      Who is able to claim the title of "saving a life" when calling an ambulance? Is the person who happened upon a person dieing and called the ambulance worth being said to have saved a life or is it only permitted to say the paramedic or surgeon saved the life?
      Anyone directly involved with the saving of said person, I think, could say they either 'saved his life', or 'helped save his life.' I believe the person directly responsible for calling the EMTs, and the EMT's, themselves, could all say that they saved the life.

      Is picking someone up from the bottom of a pool saving their life if you don't have to give mouth to mouth?
      Yes. If that person could not get out of the water, otherwise, then you have saved their life.

      Is stopping someone from driving drunk saving a life?
      Not necessarily. That is preventing the possibility of their death. It is potentially saving their life, which is different than being able to claim that you actually saved the life.

      Does saving a person's life require saving them strictly from death?
      From something that would likely (or eventually) result in death. This one is more of a gray area, because in many situations there are too many variables between what the "savior" did and the actual incident that would cause death.

      Also, has anyone here ever saved a life or had their own life saved by another?
      I've had my life saved when I was about 9. I tried to do a back flip into the pool, for the first time, didn't get out far enough and smacked my head on the side. I was unconscious, underwater, and when I woke up I had been pulled out and was lying on the deck in the middle of a group of people.

      I've also saved a friend's life, back in ROTC. A few of us were were out roaming around Key West, on vacation, and were walking toward an intersection. He was facing me and talking, and I, looking passed him, saw that there was a bus coming. Without realizing that he didn't know about the bus, I stopped at the curb to wait for the bus to go by. He, having been talking to me and not paying attention, took another two steps and was standing directly in the path of the oncoming bus. I jumped at him and pulled him back onto the curb just as the bus went flying by.

      The first thing he did was spin around and stare at me and say "Holy shit, dude. You just saved my life!"
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    14. #14
      Emotionally unsatisfied. Sandform's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Oneironaut View Post
      Depends on the situation....stare at me and say "Holy shit, dude. You just saved my life!"
      Based on your post, would it be fair to say that, to you, in almost all cases, the main requisite for saving a life is to have the intent to save them? (Followed by of course if the person was kept from death by the action that came from the intent.)

    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sandform View Post
      Based on your post, would it be fair to say that, to you, in almost all cases, the main requisite for saving a life is to have the intent to save them? (Followed by of course if the person was kept from death by the action that came from the intent.)
      No. I don't think that, to save a life, you have to have the intent on saving a life.

      If a person was about to fall into a pit of spikes, and I haphazardly trip over my own two feet and shove them away from the pit of spikes neither of us knew was there, I would have, inadvertently, saved that person's life. Could I take full credit for it? Not necessarily. It would be fair to say that I saved his life, but by accident.
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    16. #16
      Emotionally unsatisfied. Sandform's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Oneironaut View Post
      No. I don't think that, to save a life, you have to have the intent on saving a life.

      If a person was about to fall into a pit of spikes, and I haphazardly trip over my own two feet and shove them away from the pit of spikes neither of us knew was there, I would have, inadvertently, saved that person's life. Could I take full credit for it? Not necessarily. It would be fair to say that I saved his life, but by accident.
      Agreed, but this is why I said in almost all cases. For example, if an invention is used to save a person's life without the intent from the inventor, is it fair to say the inventor saved the life?

      Or if something is done, inspite of the desire by the person, perhaps the invention was meant to kill people, but is used instead to save people.

    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sandform View Post
      Agreed, but this is why I said in almost all cases. For example, if an invention is used to save a person's life without the intent from the inventor, is it fair to say the inventor saved the life?

      Or if something is done, inspite of the desire by the person, perhaps the invention was meant to kill people, but is used instead to save people.
      In that case, I wouldn't think the inventor could take credit for saving the life. He would have to settle with the consolation that his invention saved the life, which has enough merit. Could that person's life possibly have been saved by someone else's invention, just as efficiently? Who knows?
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    18. #18
      The Anti-Member spockman's Avatar
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      What if your friend is playing basketball and throws a really long ball towards a fully extended, (height-wize,) hoop. Meanwhile, a baby just old enough to walk by themselves with stability, rushes, (well, waddles,) right under the hoop precisley where the ball is going to come down. After picturing the basketball coming down upon the disproprtionate head, you sprint faster than you ever had in your life, all the way from across the room, and dive into the baby, tackling him to the ground and allowing the basketball to fall on your own head?

      That would, (was,) intentional, but simply saved the baby from potential injury. Would that count?
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    19. #19
      Emotionally unsatisfied. Sandform's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by spockman View Post
      What if your friend is playing basketball and throws a really long ball towards a fully extended, (height-wize,) hoop. Meanwhile, a baby just old enough to walk by themselves with stability, rushes, (well, waddles,) right under the hoop precisley where the ball is going to come down. After picturing the basketball coming down upon the disproprtionate head, you sprint faster than you ever had in your life, all the way from across the room, and dive into the baby, tackling him to the ground and allowing the basketball to fall on your own head?

      That would, (was,) intentional, but simply saved the baby from potential injury. Would that count?
      I would have to say that that doesn't count. It is the equivalent of pushing someone infront of a train only to pull them back the moment you pushed them.

    20. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by spockman View Post
      What if your friend is playing basketball and throws a really long ball towards a fully extended, (height-wize,) hoop. Meanwhile, a baby just old enough to walk by themselves with stability, rushes, (well, waddles,) right under the hoop precisley where the ball is going to come down. After picturing the basketball coming down upon the disproprtionate head, you sprint faster than you ever had in your life, all the way from across the room, and dive into the baby, tackling him to the ground and allowing the basketball to fall on your own head?

      That would, (was,) intentional, but simply saved the baby from potential injury. Would that count?
      That would be saving the baby from potential injury. Not quite as critical as saving a life, but commendable.
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    21. #21
      The Anti-Member spockman's Avatar
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      Hehe. I just wanted to share that. Yeah, it was cool. He wasn't harmed by the tackling by the way Sandform, though I suppose there was a chance that he would have been...
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    22. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sandform View Post
      Who is able to claim the title of "saving a life" when calling an ambulance? Is the person who happened upon a person dieing and called the ambulance worth being said to have saved a life or is it only permitted to say the paramedic or surgeon saved the life?
      I say it's a causal thing...
      The person called the ambulance which sent paramedics to rescue the man.
      The removal of any of these events would result in the man not being saved, thus both would be credited with doing their part.
      "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." -Einstein

    23. #23
      The Anti-Member spockman's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by TimeStopper View Post
      I say it's a causal thing...
      The person called the ambulance which sent paramedics to rescue the man.
      The removal of any of these events would result in the man not being saved, thus both would be credited with doing their part.
      But if that's true, Timestopper, than is the inverse also true? A man drives into a girl while he's drunk and kills her.

      Is the man who passivly sold him the beer responsible? Because the removal of the event of selling the beer would have prevented the death from occuring, (or at least from occuring at that time in that way. Which in essence, that's all your doing when you save a life, as well. Saving the life from dying at that time in that way...)

      So what's the difference?
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    24. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by spockman View Post
      But if that's true, Timestopper, than is the inverse also true? A man drives into a girl while he's drunk and kills her.

      Is the man who passivly sold him the beer responsible? Because the removal of the event of selling the beer would have prevented the death from occuring, (or at least from occuring at that time in that way. Which in essence, that's all your doing when you save a life, as well. Saving the life from dying at that time in that way...)

      So what's the difference?
      You're right, there is no difference. And this is why all talk about causes and effects with regards to people breaks down. It all comes back to a property we give humans that we don't give to all other objects, which is free will. You can't talk about causes for events involving people without talking about free will. But free will is an unsolved problem in philosophy and it may not even be solvable, so this discussion will break down.

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