Thread: Tommy Caruthers Jeet Kune Do

Not sure what was so impressive about that...He looked very quick against a guy that was just standing there.But pretty much any martial artist would. Reminds me of Monkey style kung fu.Just looking for openings anywhere and taking them.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

Just looking for openings anywhere and taking them.

That is pretty much the basis of offensive fighting, in general, no matter what style you are using.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

Not sure what was so impressive about that...He looked very quick against a guy that was just standing there.But pretty much any martial artist would. Reminds me of Monkey style kung fu.

Not only his speed, but his precision and potential power. Even though he is pulling his punches, you can tell how much power he gets behind his power punches, as opposed to his jabs. Even though he's going as fast as he is, you can tell on which punches he draws his power all the way from the earth (his feet).

The (seemingly) flailing motion in Jeet Kune Do is not only used to make yourself harder to hit, but it also allows you to hit more critical points in a fashion that makes it harder for the enemy to block, as well as confusing and disorienting the opponent. While they are making tempored, possibly more powerful attacks such as boxing, they are contending with a barrage of punches, instead of someone taking the same amount of time in measuring their attacks. This is why flurries are often so effective in boxing.

People seem to think that just because it looks like someone is flailing their arms really fast, there is no power behind them. A careful eye can see which punches are simply jabs, and which actually have power behind them, even when he pulls them back before hitting his target. The difference between Monkey-style Kung Fu and JKD (to my knowledge) is that Kung Fu incorporates a lot of inefficient and unnecessary movements. Every attack in the JKD philosophy is specifically designed for maximum efficiency, both in offensive, defensive and counter attacks, such as in boxing.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Not only his speed, but his precision and potential power. Even though he is pulling his punches, you can tell how much power he gets behind his power punches, as opposed to his jabs. Even though he's going as fast as he is, you can tell on which punches he draws his power all the way from the earth (his feet).

It's all in your stance. If you know how to punch properly, you use the energy from your legs, torso, shoulders and arms to deliver the punch. I believe it's termed "kinetic-linking". That's what really makes the difference between some bar fighter and a martial artist. Once you have the stance, and the knowledge of how to punch properly speed will come afterwards.

The (seemingly) flailing motion in Jeet Kune Do is not only used to make yourself harder to hit, but it also allows you to hit more critical points in a fashion that makes it harder for the enemy to block, as well as confusing and disorienting the opponent. While they are making tempored, possibly more powerful attacks such as boxing, they are contending with a barrage of punches, instead of someone taking the same amount of time in measuring their attacks. This is why flurries are often so effective in boxing.

People seem to think that just because it looks like someone is flailing their arms really fast, there is no power behind them. A careful eye can see which punches are simply jabs, and which actually have power behind them, even when he pulls them back before hitting his target. The difference between Monkey-style Kung Fu and JKD (to my knowledge) is that Kung Fu incorporates a lot of inefficient and unnecessary movements. Every attack in the JKD philosophy is specifically designed for maximum efficiency, both in offensive, defensive and counter attacks, such as in boxing.

Monkey-style kungfu is essentially the same. Endless assault while countering the opponents attacks. You are supposed to see the punches and kicks as 'branches', or more appropriately, opportunities. I've seen it demonstrated myself against an opponent that wasn't standing still. While it did seem a little bit sloppy (formless?), it seemed to have the other guy laughing in embarrassment afterwards. I know Bruce lee was critical of martial arts because of the 'forms' different styles would incorporate. But in my opinion all styles of fighting have form. Even wild animals have form, look at how moose and other horned animals fight. Even my dogs have form when they go at it...They try and get the dog version of the muai-tai clinch on each other and on me when I wrestle with them.

I agree. It's not what "STYLE" you belong to. it's the person using using the full potantial of his body.

Yes, MoS that is exactly it, and this is what most martial arts try to teach. Not only that, but being able to exert very little force while misdirecting a very strong force.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

It's all in your stance. If you know how to punch properly, you use the energy from your legs, torso, shoulders and arms to deliver the punch. I believe it's termed "kinetic-linking". That's what really makes the difference between some bar fighter and a martial artist. Once you have the stance, and the knowledge of how to punch properly speed will come afterwards.

I already understand the concept. You were asking what I felt was impressive about the video. His speed and technique were the main part of what I found was impressive. What are you more unimpressed with, the artist, or the fact that he's doing JKD?

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

Monkey-style kungfu is essentially the same. Endless assault while countering the opponents attacks. You are supposed to see the punches and kicks as 'branches', or more appropriately, opportunities. I've seen it demonstrated myself against an opponent that wasn't standing still. While it did seem a little bit sloppy (formless?), it seemed to have the other guy laughing in embarrassment afterwards.

Correct. Though there is more inefficiency in keeping the form of the monkey style. It is much more unorthodox and (I believe) it expends more energy. It is also not as extensively focused upon quick counterattacks as JKD is.

BUT, I wasn't posting this video to say JKD is superior to anything (or really to even get into a comparison of it against other styles). I was simply impressed with how well it was executed by the teacher. I have the feeling that you have something of a negative (or simply unimpressed) opinion on the style, which is all fine and good. I completely agree that it's not the style that makes the fighter.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

I know Bruce lee was critical of martial arts because of the 'forms' different styles would incorporate. But in my opinion all styles of fighting have form. Even wild animals have form, look at how moose and other horned animals fight. Even my dogs have form when they go at it...They try and get the dog version of the muai-tai clinch on each other and on me when I wrestle with them.

I understand that, but the philosophy behind JKD (as I understand it) is to do what's most efficient/effective for you. Yes, Lee's version has some form, as the many different strikes were taken from other fighting styles and meshed together in a way that best suited him. But that's one of the reasons I don't like to get into debates about what is a better style. When he talks about JKD being "free flowing" it is simply that. It is not to have one set style. It is about adaptation - fluidity in being able to change your approach to match any situation. If you are to do the movements exactly as he does, of course there will be a set style; his. But the philosophy makes room for adding your own improvisations that follow the same object of efficiency, but may not even be found in any established style.

And again, in case there is any confusion, I say that only in direct response to your quoted statement, not to "praise" JKD over any other style.

`` I have the feeling that you have something of a negative (or simply unimpressed) opinion on the style, which is all fine and good. I completely agree that it's not the style that makes the fighter. ``

That`s not the case at all! I`m a big fan of Bruce Lee and what he has done to modernize martial arts and make it more pratical in real fighting.

I'm not trying to debate about the effectiveness of JKD. I actually think it's probably one of the better forms of fighting because it is a modern mix of many styles and like you said, you can adapt it to other things that suit your strengths.

It's not that I wasn't unimpressed per se, I'm just trying to say (and failing )that it's not uncommon for an experienced martial artist to have lightning quick hand speed and accuracy.

Sorry for the confusion, I did not mean to come off as offensive or negative.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

`` I have the feeling that you have something of a negative (or simply unimpressed) opinion on the style, which is all fine and good. I completely agree that it's not the style that makes the fighter. ``

That`s not the case at all! I`m a big fan of Bruce Lee and what he has done to modernize martial arts and make it more pratical in real fighting.

I'm not trying to debate about the effectiveness of JKD. I actually think it's probably one of the better forms of fighting because it is a modern mix of many styles and like you said, you can adapt it to other things that suit your strengths.

It's not that I wasn't unimpressed per se, I'm just trying to say (and failing )that it's not uncommon for an experienced martial artist to have lightning quick hand speed and accuracy.

Sorry for the confusion, I did not mean to come off as offensive or negative.

No problem. Completely my misunderstanding, then.

But yeah, I know what you mean. It is very easy to come off as showing that you have quick hands, but knowing even just a little about Tommy's background, and his status in the JKD community, I know he has a lot of power. People say the same thing about Bruce Lee, though (as well as practically any fighter that they see doing only certain moves) because it's not easy to gauge power by watching a reel - especially when they don't actually hit something.

I don't think that a display of power is what he's going for, though (evident by the fact that he doesn't actually hit his volunteer). There are many shots that you can tell aren't merely speed shots, though, as I said. You can see his jabs and his distracting glances, but there are few than you can see that have stopping power behind them. Even with that being the case, there is much more to the video - and fighting technique in general - than power. It is a fact that's proven time and time again: Power is important at the right moment. It is but a fraction of the arsenal, and will not win a fight on its own, unless your opponent is practically standing still.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

No problem. Completely my misunderstanding, then.

My fault though

But yeah, I know what you mean. It is very easy to come off as showing that you have quick hands, but knowing even just a little about Tommy's background, and his status in the JKD community, I know he has a lot of power. People say the same thing about Bruce Lee, though (as well as practically any fighter that they see doing only certain moves) because it's not easy to gauge power by watching a reel - especially when they don't actually hit something.

I don't think that a display of power is what he's going for, though (evident by the fact that he doesn't actually hit his volunteer). There are many shots that you can tell aren't merely speed shots, though, as I said. You can see his jabs and his distracting glances, but there are few than you can see that have stopping power behind them. Even with that being the case, there is much more to the video - and fighting technique in general - than power. It is a fact that's proven time and time again: Power is important at the right moment. It is but a fraction of the arsenal, and will not win a fight on its own, unless your opponent is practically standing still.

Yeah, it is difficult to tell which ones have power and which ones are merely jabs. If you look at his whole body carefully, especially the legs and torso area, you will see him bend his knees and pivot the hips while twisting the torso. When he does that it is meant to be a power punch, but like you said it is hard to tell because he can't follow through with it and do the full motion.

Like you said, power is a fraction of the arsenal. Not only is it important when you use power but where. If you can combine that with speed and technique then you can really cause some damage. Many experienced martial artists have an extreme intimacy with human anatomy and know how to cause internal damage while there is seemingly no damage at all. Not to mention joint locks that could leave opponents crippled for the rest of their lives.

Martial arts are just so damn awesome.