Thread: Mac Mini

Apple stuff is so expansive because its products are very well made. If you buy a pc, you spend 1000 bucks to go on the internet and get blasted with viruses and spyware. I own a old mac, it runs better then my newer pc, I use it more, and have never gotten a virus, yet my pc has gotten 3. And it runs like a piece of stepped on shit.

http://members.cox.net/clyqz/macs.html

lol. that guys describing a pc.

No, he's just describing the common problems with a mac.
If you dont know what you're doing you fuck up a mac just as easily as a PC. Granted you have less spyware and virus threats but if you know what you're doing there's no problem there. Yea microsoft sucks and all but its not that i'm a PC fanboy i'm just anti mac-fanboys. Macs (with the exceptions of the iBooks, they're pretty good) are NOT superiour in any way, they DONT have any special hardware, and OSX isnt all that 'stable' as you think it is (there's just NO programs for it to crash! ). For the price, macs really arent anything special.

(pretend i know what im talking about) is there any other choice when buying computers/software of watever between mac/windows??

as long as it turns on and plays who cares what viruses are on it

Yeah. Here's a few things I've found over years running a computer with no Automatic Updates, Firewalls, Virus Scanners, and Windows XP. I've used a computer for seven years now, so I think I have enough experience to make these conclusions.

1) Your computer doesn't actually blow up if you run Windows.
Sure, it can go wrong every so often, but so can any other operating system. I've tried almost all *nix's and none of them are perfect - sometimes not even better than Windows itself. The general trend these days is "WINDOWS AND PCS AND ALL THAT STUFF IS ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE AND I HATE IT IT IT THE ENEMY OMG", but mine has never gone wrong to any drastic degree over 7 years. Am I just super lucky? I doubt it.

2) Microsoft isn't evil.
People that say otherwise are clearly stupid. I thought so at one point, but then it hit me that...well, they weren't. So they have lots of money. That usually means they did something right, and apparently being evil dosen't make much profit.

3) Macs are not better than PCs by a factor of 1000, and vice-versa.
Suit your personal tastes. Maybe a PC suits you better, maybe a Mac - but at the end of the day neither one is an complete smackdown of the other in anything - flexibility, stability... Why not? Because they don't have all the market share, duh.

4) Macs are not more secure than Windows.
They're just not. As I said at the start - I don't have any security on my Windows, and yet nothing bad has happened. Maybe it's laden with 30 strains of viruses - but who cares? The system hasn't blown up or suffered any adverse effects, so stop saying bullshit you stupid computer sellers.

5) So what if a Mac looks better.
A computer, for me, needs functionality. There is no point in flouting "OH HOW PRETTY IT IS!!!!" as an selling point. I'd rather buy a computer than looked like crap than one that looks perfect but crashes every ten seconds.

6) Windows has more software than Mac.
Okay, so you bought a Mac. The most stable system alive, apparently. It's perfect! It's great! In fact, it's never gone wrong ever ever ever! Because there's NO SOFTWARE!

7) You won't be cool if you use a Mac.
'nuff said.

8) In fact, you'll be a bit of a loser and an outcast. Your friends will think of you as a geek.
'nuff said.

Feel free to call me a Microsoft lover, PC lover, Mac hater, whatever you feel like, but after using a computer for seven years, I have enough experience in the field of computers, if I say so myself... There is no perfect OS. Maybe a PC is better for you. Maybe a Mac is. I'm not here to convince you about either. But what I state is that by no degree is a Mac better than a PC, or vice-versa.

Nevertheless, I think Apple sucks. Why? Just because it dosen't suit my taxing expectations for a computer. My computer needs to run a webserver, PHP, mySQL, ISO mounters, etc, on 256MB ram and a 1GHZ CPU, and buying an new computer altogether with a new processor, crappily small amount of programs, and an apple logo stuck on the front is just stupid. And that iName thing, where they just stick an "i" before the name of everything. That is annoying.

Err, I agree to most of what you said, except for this:

As I said at the start - I don't have any security on my Windows, and yet nothing bad has happened. Maybe it's laden with 30 strains of viruses - but who cares?[/b]

After getting on the DSL network, it took a total of 8 minutes to be infected by over 20 virii / spamware / malware.
What did they do? Nothing 'bad' maybe... hell... they caused my PC to automatically shutdown (blaster derivative), and completely kill my bandwidth. And they weren't easy to remove at all.

So, I believe you're experience is 'lucky' as you doubtfully put it
It's the guys like you on my DSL network that are responsible for my 8 minute attack time

apparently being evil dosen't make much profit[/b]

Depends on your definition of 'evil'. Look at the mafia - they do 'evil' things, and they make good profit from drug smuggling and the like
Evil doesn't make profit? Last time I looked, most of the evil in the world is money-oriented...
Now, I agree that anybody saying M$ is evil, is just plain dense. But not for the above reason.

The rest was good, by and large

Not to mention how every fucking Mac has below two gigs in processing power (besides the G5s, whatever), yet every idiot thinks that Apple has some miraculous way of lowing prices...

oh my god...

I was pretty excited about getting a mac mini... but the video and all this.... The only comfort I can think of taking is that Im sure someone could make a humorous video as well as some numbered points about how PCs suck.

Originally posted by Placebo
Err, I agree to most of what you said, except for this:

As I said at the start - I don't have any security on my Windows, and yet nothing bad has happened. Maybe it's laden with 30 strains of viruses - but who cares?

After getting on the DSL network, it took a total of 8 minutes to be infected by over 20 virii / spamware / malware.
What did they do? Nothing 'bad' maybe... hell... they caused my PC to automatically shutdown (blaster derivative), and completely kill my bandwidth. And they weren't easy to remove at all.

So, I believe you're experience is 'lucky' as you doubtfully put it
It's the guys like you on my DSL network that are responsible for my 8 minute attack time[/b]

No virus says "Okay, let's make this computer suffer no effects but instead just infect everybody else." I didn't get the dreaded blaster at any point in time (I do check for viruses on occasion but only clean them out once a year or so), even though the magazines and articles spoke of it as if your computer was just about to collapse. That's the point i'm trying to make - it may sound stupid but I expect Macs don't have viruses because not enough people actually use the things. I mean as far as computers go, mine must be the holy grail of "INFECT ME NOW", but it hasn't actually got anything. And it's up 24/7 with a DSL connection, no security patches...so yes, there can be *some* viruses that bugger your computer up - but it's nothing like the magazines and whatever say. They speak of it as if it's something that'll happen in 30 seconds if you're not careful with Windows, but it's not. Therefore it is not a big selling point for the Mac (which once again I doubt is more secure than Windows).

Originally posted by CT

True.

Anyhoo, this Mac Mini does seem nice, but with Windows being more widely used, I just can't see it competing.

Originally posted by Alex D


True.

Anyhoo, this Mac Mini does seem nice, but with Windows being more widely used, I just can't see it competing.

what does that picture mean, exactly? i have an ipod, and i fail to see the joke there......


oh, and macs suck. some of their products (ibook, ipod) are quite nice, but their OS crapness and complete lack of ANY software makes me say this.

Yeah I agree that Apple does like to wank itself over every new announcement, but I will also say this-

I grew up with a mac in the household (right from the shitty beige ones with 10 inch screens) and being in a boarding house connected to a school network with no support for macs, was forced to work my ass of and buy a pc. Yes, it was great first off, but then the dreaded spyware hit (this was when hardly anyone knew about spyware) and boy, did it fuck with my computer. It is actually very luck it did not get thrown out of my winow for the amoutn of crap it fucked me around with. I had to do complete computer resets no less than four times to the original package settings before I got the virus shit under control, and even now one wrong move forces me to do a thorough virus check cuz the bastards hide so well. In trying to delete this shit I found how much windows fucked me off and I swore that I would never again buy a fucking pc, a promise that looks set to hold true with macs that are now priced withing the realms of reality.

Personally I don't see what the whole rivalry and crap has to do with anything. I mean all those that like to slag off Macs - nobody is forcing it down your throat, if you don't like em, don't buy em. I've tried both and can safely say that macs suit my need so much better - I'm not playing thousands of games or writing software or anyting. Yes, macs are so much more resistant to viruses too, and anyone who argues anything else is lying. In the last 5 years we have had an imac and an emac at home, and not once have we got a virus. In the last year with this pc i have had, at a guess, upwards of 160 viruses (when i first ran ad-aware you shoulda seen the shit it cleaned out). Now i have about 5 different virus programs and I still can not be sure that I wont get a virus.

Yeah the whole dribble abotu ipod and itunes and fucking iphoto shtis you off after a while, but they're geat computers trying to get some decent market share.

Originally posted by Roller
Personally I don't see what the whole rivalry and crap has to do with anything. I mean all those that like to slag off Macs - nobody is forcing it down your throat, if you don't like em, don't buy em.

Of course, you should express your opinon so Macs don't come across as the holy grail of computers. Which they are not.

Yes, macs are so much more resistant to viruses too, and anyone who argues anything else is lying.[/b]

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Originally posted by Kaniaz

Yes, macs are so much more resistant to viruses too, and anyone who argues anything else is lying.

no[/b]

Actually they are. I'm not even talking about number of viruses, because I believe if Mac OS X was as popular and widely used as Windows, there would be about the same number of viruses. So that moot point aside, it is much more difficult for a virus to gain administrator or root privileges on a unix based subsystem (Mac OS X has a BSD subsystem) than it is on Windows; that is to say, it is much easier to write a virus that will destroy a Windows based system than it is to write one that will destroy a Mac OS X based system.

Thus OS X is more resistant to lethal viruses than Windows is, because OS X has a more secure architecture by its design (there is a separation of absolute root user and administrator user, applications cannot gain access to system level files without a user input password, etc). Windows, on the other hand, was not designed with much system-level security in mind. An application (Word for example), does need your approval to modify system level files. And an administrator has full privileges and access; there is no true "root" in Windows.

A good article comparing the security of the two system can be found here (written by the the former Chief Security Officer at Network Solutions):
http://www.infowarrior.org/articles/2003-08.html

Originally posted by dream&#045;scape+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dream&#045;scape)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Kaniaz

Yes, macs are so much more resistant to viruses too, and anyone who argues anything else is lying.

no[/b]

Actually they are. I'm not even talking about number of viruses, because I believe if Mac OS X was as popular and widely used as Windows, there would be about the same number of viruses. So that moot point aside, it is much more difficult for a virus to gain administrator or root privileges on a unix based subsystem (Mac OS X has a BSD subsystem) than it is on Windows; that is to say, it is much easier to write a virus that will destroy a Windows based system than it is to write one that will destroy a Mac OS X based system.

Thus OS X is more resistant to lethal viruses than Windows is, because OS X has a more secure architecture by its design (there is a separation of absolute root user and administrator user, applications cannot gain access to system level files without a user input password, etc). Windows, on the other hand, was not designed with much system-level security in mind. An application (Word for example), does need your approval to modify system level files. And an administrator has full privileges and access; there is no true \"root\" in Windows.

A good article comparing the security of the two system can be found here (written by the the former Chief Security Officer at Network Solutions):
http://www.infowarrior.org/articles/2003-08.html[/b]

no

Originally posted by Kaniaz
no

Aw shucks you sure can make a good argument. How about you go play outside with the other kids?

Originally posted by dream&#045;scape+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dream&#045;scape)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Kaniaz

no

Aw shucks you sure can make a good argument. How about you go play outside with the other kids?[/b]

no (aw shucks, you set yourself up great for an exact duplicate of my last two posts! good foresight, how about you go outside and drown yourself).

haha. kaniaz cant stand losing an argument. funny. hahah.

Originally posted by Kaniaz
no

You certainly leave alot to the imagination. The resistance capabilities of Macs do go beyond the fact that less viruses are written for them. The Unix system is alot more secure, and even when they were not Unix based I never had a trouble with a virus.

Damnit, I'm sick of all this PC/Windows-bashing everywhere else! You know, I remember when we had to use DOS...we had to type in "C:" and everything else just to run one lousy program -- AND WE LIKED IT!

Did anyone get that Dana Carvey SNL reference?

Oh, and Kaniaz? That "eight things I learned about computers" list? Priceless. Thanks man.

Edit: Placebo, thanks for jogging my apparently more fogged-up than I thought memory -- fixed.

I just didn't feel like responding to the argment. But, if you want me to:

Originally posted by dream&#045;scape+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dream&#045;scape)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Kaniaz

Yes, macs are so much more resistant to viruses too, and anyone who argues anything else is lying.

no[/b]

Actually they are. I'm not even talking about number of viruses, because I believe if Mac OS X was as popular and widely used as Windows, there would be about the same number of viruses. So that moot point aside, it is much more difficult for a virus to gain administrator or root privileges on a unix based subsystem (Mac OS X has a BSD subsystem) than it is on Windows; that is to say, it is much easier to write a virus that will destroy a Windows based system than it is to write one that will destroy a Mac OS X based system.[/b]

So at the end of the day it will take a virus writer a while longer to create the virus, but not much else. Every operating system - Linux, Mac, Windows, That Old Woman's Cusotmized One Next Door, always has an unseen exploit in it. Anybody that says any operating system is completely secure is an idiot. A secure operating system would have to be a mighty simple one. Besides, I know lots of people that log onto their root user and use it like a normal user despite all the warnings, and basically leave themselves wide open to attacks from viruses anywhere. That does happen to a few people, that think because they've got a \"secure\" operating system they can do mad things with it. And it just takes somebody with lots of free time (ie: a virus writer) to sit down with the operating system and find it (a hole). Sure, it's all very well have your root users and BSD subsystems, but if your computer ends up as a smoking pile of ash, it has been a waste of your time.

That aside, I've never seen any Mac viruses myself. That could be because I don't actually use a Mac. But, here's a good quote:

A virus will never infect Macs...it's like \"AHH! IF I INFECT A MAC THAT'll STOP WORK FOR LIKE...10 PEOPLE WORLDWIDE!!!\"[/b]

But I expect if Macs became/become an formidable part of the market again, enough for a virus writer, they will begin to get plagued with viruses just as much as anybody else. So for now, your Mac is more \"secure\" because it would be worthless to spend time writing a virus for it - it wouldn't make sense to do so - but it's not more secure in any other sense than Windows or Linux. Fine, here's an old security advisory for one of the previous OS'es on the Mac, I believe. It's outdated now (you use Panther, no?) but nevertheless:

Release: * 10.28.03
Name: *Long argv[] Buffer Overflow
Application: *Mac OS X
Platforms: *Mac OS X 10.2.8 and below
Severity: *Attacker can crash Mac OS X and possibly execute commands as root[/b]

Admittely Windows gets more of these things, but you've just read why I think so. So at no point should anybody ever think their system is more secure than anybody elses. It's more of an case of if you are in the firing line. Sure, superusers, permissons and the like make your system more secure, defintely, but the second a bunch of virus writers think "I'll think I'll spend time blowing up Macs today..." (well, okay, it takes them all longer than a day for anything), you might as well make a backup and hope they don't find a hole. And they're all good at finding holes.

PS: Same goes for Unix and Linux and the like. But you got to think. Windows holds a huge percentage of the operating systems today, and in comparison Mac, Linux/Unix and whatever else are a small amount of people. Which one would hurt more people? You see, the thing is, until an operating system has the hole actually found in it, nobody knows the hole was ever there. For all I know, Macs could have a hole that lets you perform any command as root. But since nobody has found the thing, it's not there (well, it is, but we don't know about it). There was actually a Linux virus available at one point, but it was a sort of test type virus, and you could run --goaway-please and it will disappear off the comp. It just showed that it is possible. Macs have their own set of holes too, but as I said, the obvious concentration is on Windows. So you find more holes. Ta-da!

no



(touche!)





P.S. WTF? Sleep...