Fasting and Lucid Dreaming

This thread is intended to be an on-going discussion of fasting, particularly fasting in support of lucid dreaming. Several of us found the idea interesting in a previous thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/f44/best-l...health-103664/

I have limited knowledge and experience with fasting, but I've started doing some research and intend to learn as much as possible. I will summarize the information I find and post short reviews here along with the relevant links.

In addition, I would encourage others to do the same, particularly describing their own experiences combining fasting with LDs. I think that fasting has great potential as a lucid dreaming technique. This will be a good place to test that theory.

I don't usually eat lunch at school, and during this time I usually have less lucid dreams. But that's just my own observations.
I'd love to hear what the people who actually fast have to say!

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Originally Posted by Puffin

I don't usually eat lunch at school, and during this time I usually have less lucid dreams. But that's just my own observations.
I'd love to hear what the people who actually fast have to say!

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Skipping lunch is not fasting, Puffin. :-)

In fact, eating or drinking ANYTHING is not fasting. You can drink water, of course.

Haha, I know. :P

Robert Bruce mentions this as a helpful tool for AP, LDs, and Sleep Paralysis. He says in one of his books being tired combined with not eating several hours before helps to induce sleep paralysis.

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Originally Posted by WanderingMind

Robert Bruce mentions this as a helpful tool for AP, LDs, and Sleep Paralysis. He says in one of his books being tired combined with not eating several hours before helps to induce sleep paralysis.

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Kriyananda, an American yogi, says the same, and virtually all the major spiritual traditions recommend fasting.

Carlos Castendeda's mentor, Don Juan, never explicitly mentioned fasting. But when he was preparing to introduce Carlos to some new experience, he always "arranged" for them to miss meals. Carlos always complained as I recall. :-)

Fasting is also enormously beneficial from a purely physical point of view. I'm currently reading Fasting and Eating for Health by Dr. Joel Fuhrman. I'll post a short review here when I'm finished. But apparently our lousy American diet is the root cause for a whole constellation of medical problems. And fasting can help reverse most of them.

My guess is that fasting would be a good preliminary if you were preparing for an extremely vivid LD/AP. It should probably be combined with some type of energy work. Bruce has a lot of good information on energy work.

Well, I'm starting a fast today. We'll see how it goes ...

What is fasting?
Is fasting not eating anything?? But really trying to work around living day in and out only really drinking water and thats it?

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Originally Posted by 156curses

What is fasting?
Is fasting not eating anything?? But really trying to work around living day in and out only really drinking water and thats it?

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There is disagreement about what fasting is. Some people will only drink fruit juice, calling that a juice fast. Some people will only drink vegetable juice, etc.

Fuhrman, the doctor I mentioned above, insists that real fasting means eating no solid food and drinking only water. When you do this for a couple of days the body enters a condition called "protein sparing". In this state the body conserves its muscle tissue and starts metabolizing fat. When you "juice fast" or cheat on the fast, this doesn't happen. I'll post more details once I've finished the book.

I've tried but never completed a full day of fasting, so my opinion here is speculative.

But anyway, I think fasting also has a powerful psychological component. I think the discipline required to fast and the satisfaction of achieving that plan would build up one's sense of "mind over matter" that benefits mental health and could plausibly have an effect on lucid dreaming. Also, fasting is often performed as a religious ritual or political demonstration. Having a strong conviction and motivation to do something as difficult as fasting can stimulate a profound focus and clarity in the mind.

I might look up that book you mentioned.

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Originally Posted by sisyphus

I've tried but never completed a full day of fasting, so my opinion here is speculative.

But anyway, I think fasting also has a powerful psychological component. I think the discipline required to fast and the satisfaction of achieving that plan would build up one's sense of "mind over matter" that benefits mental health and could plausibly have an effect on lucid dreaming. Also, fasting is often performed as a religious ritual or political demonstration. Having a strong conviction and motivation to do something as difficult as fasting can stimulate a profound focus and clarity in the mind.

I might look up that book you mentioned.

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I think that is exactly right. :-)

If you summon the discipline necessary to fast with the goal of improving your lucid dreaming, you are essentially doing a very powerful MILD. Every time you feel hunger you will be thinking about your LD goals. You will be telling your subconscious just how important it is to you.

There is probably a lot more to it than that, but just that alone would be a very powerful LD technique.

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Originally Posted by DawgBone

When you do this for a couple of days the body enters a condition called "protein sparing". In this state the body conserves its muscle tissue and starts metabolizing fat. When you "juice fast" or cheat on the fast, this doesn't happen.

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Makes sense. The cells of your body can switch from using fats or sugars as its primary source of energy. Ideally you use sugar as energy when you're very active, then switch to fats when at rest. If your diet is far out of balance then your cells want to burn sugar rather than fat while at rest. The problem here is that you can turn protein (muscle) into sugars, but not fat. It seems that if the only source of calories is a small amount of sugar in some fresh juice (and if you're going to do this it needs to be fresh), then your body will develop a preference to burning sugar stores over fat.

Anyway, I'm hoping to do a fast next week granted my work schedule allows it. I've been working four day including a double, so I could get a good 3 or 4 day fast before needing energy to really work.

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Originally Posted by Feick

Makes sense. The cells of your body can switch from using fats or sugars as its primary source of energy. Ideally you use sugar as energy when you're very active, then switch to fats when at rest. If your diet is far out of balance then your cells want to burn sugar rather than fat while at rest. The problem here is that you can turn protein (muscle) into sugars, but not fat. It seems that if the only source of calories is a small amount of sugar in some fresh juice (and if you're going to do this it needs to be fresh), then your body will develop a preference to burning sugar stores over fat.

Anyway, I'm hoping to do a fast next week granted my work schedule allows it. I've been working four day including a double, so I could get a good 3 or 4 day fast before needing energy to really work.

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Sounds good! I just finished a one day. Will try a three day next week.

Let us know how it goes.

In this thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/f44/best-l...health-103664/
several of us speculated that a weakened physical body might actually help with LD/AP. And we further speculated that fasting might do this without injury to the body. Investigating that theory is the purpose of this thread.

Well, I got the flu last week! :-(

In addition, I was fasting. (Fasting and the flu is not a combination I recommend!) The first night I hardly slept, but the past three nights I have had extraordinary dream activity and excellent dream recall. I was semi-lucid during one of the dreams.

Now, one anecdotal episode is hardly proof. But it is interesting! So far the theory is holding up.

Hope you feel better, Dawg. I haven't been ill in quite a number of years, but next time I am I plan to explore the altered states of consciousness that may come with it. In the past I would just watch tv and eat soup.

And I think this brings up an interesting point. As Dawg mentioned, we commented in the aforementioned thread that a weakened body may cause an opportunity to awaken deeper states of consciousness. I do feel that this is true, however I think that it needs to be paired with the intention to awaken these states. It was said previously that in many indigenous communities they will intentionally induce these states (or many times they're naturally ill people) and use them as a means to embrace their weakened body and, in a way, let their body die to create a disassociation between body and mind. In our western world the only time our body is weakened is when we're ill, and all we do is distract ourselves from the illness. In an indigenous culture it would often be encouraged to use it as a means of spiritual awakening and the individual would focus on the end result, to find a deeper connection with the spirit world. Whether or not you believe in a spirit, these practices are widespread enough that they do have merit. Whether they're causing the practitioner to AP or just simple LD, it certainly can help what ever your goal. So I stand that it is beneficial, if not mandatory, to pair meditation on the intention with our fasting.

I've never done this. During my fasts in the past I never really focused on the esoteric.
Oh, and I may not get to fast this week. My schedule doesn't really work. My off days are broken up and I can't let myself be too weak for my job. When I get to, I plan for a four day fast with the most meditation on the last two.

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Originally Posted by Feick

And I think this brings up an interesting point. As Dawg mentioned, we commented in the aforementioned thread that a weakened body may cause an opportunity to awaken deeper states of consciousness. I do feel that this is true, however I think that it needs to be paired with the intention to awaken these states.

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That's exactly right. If you don't have strongly focused intent, just fasting or just illness will get you nowhere. But the two together offer real possibilities.

Really interesting topic. It's been a week since the last post, have any of you tried more fasting or found out something new since then? I'm considering fasting, mostly as a general health benefit, but I need to learn more about it first.

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Originally Posted by hallahill

Really interesting topic. It's been a week since the last post, have any of you tried more fasting or found out something new since then? I'm considering fasting, mostly as a general health benefit, but I need to learn more about it first.

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I'm planning a 3 day this week. Will post my results when I'm done.

The book mentioned above is excellent. It's approaches fasting from the health point of view and is carefully researched. There are many other books that approach it from the spiritual point of view.

I looked for the book in a bookstore with no luck. Actually I couldn't find anything at all on fasting in the diet, medicine, or self-help sections. Meanwhile, there's a whole shelf devoted to yoga... Nothing against yoga. Anyway, I guess I'll hit up Amazon.

Could you share with us a bit of detail about your fasting practices? Do you prepare or eat differently in the days before or the days after? On the day of the fast, do you only drink water?