Amanita Muscaria and Ibotenic acid/Muscimol

As a chemist, I have studied the properties of Ibotenic acid and Muscimol beforehand. One of the many effects produced by these compounds, found in the Amanita Muscaria fungus, is coma-like sleep with vivid dreams. I am in no way interested in trying this, but I am just wondering if anyone has tried consuming this fungus before going to bed. If so, was it easier to become lucid?

*I am in no way condoning the use of Amanita Muscaria as a lucid aid. The negative and toxic effects of Ibotenic acid can be severe to the point of death.

Thanks,
Asmodean

Your post confuses me... are you planning on trying this?

Is the fungus used at all in medicine?

No I am not planning on using it. I have studied the compounds produced by the fungus, and am simply curious as to whether or not it could be used as a lucid aid.

As far as my knowledge goes, the fungus is not formally administered as a medication. However several naturalists use the fungus (more accurately, the compound Muscimol contained) as an antidepressant and sleeping aid.

I apologize for any confusion, as my English is not too great!

moved to lucid aids :)

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Originally Posted by Borislav

No I am not planning on using it. I have studied the compounds produced by the fungus, and am simply curious as to whether or not it could be used as a lucid aid.

As far as my knowledge goes, the fungus is not formally administered as a medication. However several naturalists use the fungus (more accurately, the compound Muscimol contained) as an antidepressant and sleeping aid.

I apologize for any confusion, as my English is not too great!

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So it could work. Your disclaimer about the toxic effects made me worried for your health. I take it it's not particularly lethal, since some people take it medicinally?

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Originally Posted by TeaSea

So it could work. Your disclaimer about the toxic effects made me worried for your health. I take it it's not particularly lethal, since some people take it medicinally?

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No, it is not lethal unless highly abused. It is relatively safe, but after researching it for a project, I am not too keen to try it! I am confident in te compound's ability to induce an LD, however.

Just say know: Erowid Experience Vaults: Amanitas (also A. muscaria, pantherina) Main Index.

James Arthur wrote a great book on it called Mushrooms and Mankind; attributing the advent of Christmas (red + white) to it amongst many other things (e.g.: "Taketh, eateth; this is my flesh").

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Originally Posted by IAmCoder

Just say know: Erowid Experience Vaults: Amanitas (also A. muscaria, pantherina) Main Index.

James Arthur wrote a great book on it called Mushrooms and Mankind; attributing the advent of Christmas (red + white) to it amongst many other things (e.g.: "Taketh, eateth; this is my flesh").

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This is all just references to the varied toxic/recreational/religious uses for the compounds within the fungus. Unfortunately there are no noted experiences in which the fungus has been used for lucid induction.

I have friends who eat the mushroom, but they haven't reported lucid dreaming from it.

You are correct, except there is but one reference to lucid dreaming at the top of this page:
Erowid Experience Vaults: Search Results.

Still, a single vague reference out of 174. So the data clearly shows that this will not induce lucidity. Move along kids...

Okay, that seems as though it would have just been a natural LD had, whilst under the influence of the compound. That does seem to rather conclusively point towards a negative correlation. Thank you all for any input!

Regarding the formal medicinal usage "Muscarinic agonists are used as drugs in treating glaucoma, postoperative ileus, congenital megacolon, urinary retention and Xerostomia. Muscarine is contraindicated in patients with diseases that make them susceptible to parasympathetic stimulation, patients who have asthma or COPD or patients who have peptic ulcer disease. Also patients with an obstruction in the gastrointestinal or urinary tract are not prescribed muscarine because it will aggravate the obstruction, causing pressure to build up that may lead to perforation. The applications of muscarine to the treatment of disease are yet in their infancy. The physiological effects indicate the direction of the remedial applications. As muscarine stimulates so powerfully the muscular fiber of the intestine, and the secretions of the pancreas, liver, and intestinal mucous membrane, it ought to be very serviceable in cases of constipation with torpor of the organs concerned in digestion. When constipation is due to paresis of the muscular layer of the bowel and to deficient secretion, this remedy will probably relieve it. Muscarine can also be used in combination with other remedies for the treatment of intestinal torpor and deficient secretion. Muscarine is of doubtful propriety, if not positively contra-indicated, in renal affections characterized by deficiency in the excretion. On the other hand, it ought to be of signal service in diabetes insipidus and in saccharine diabetes. It has been used successfully to arrest the secretion of milk.[8]"

Regarding the LD'ing effects, it does mimic acetylcholine, which most people here would know helps with LD's.
I was discussing this with a former member here a while ago. I think he had tried it and said it worked.
Overall though it is probably not wise. Unless one has a pure extraction of Muscarine and can measure out the dose,
which I guess wouldn't be too hard for a chemist.

I've actually had some good success with Amanita Muscaria mushrooms and lucid dreaming.

First let me address the concerns of the ibotenic acid. From what I understand, you only need to worry about that when the mushrooms are fresh. Apparently the ibotenic acid evaporates when the mushroom dries and you're just left with the active ingredient in the mushrooms being Muscimol.

I got into lucid dreaming pretty heavy when I was unemployed for nearly a year in my early 20's. I'd heard about it for a long time, but never really thought of learning how to have them until then. I was broke and figured it would be a cheap way to distract myself and maybe have a little fun.

So I went to the local library and got some books on it, I recommend "How To Have Lucid Dreams In 30 Days" - read it and take what helps, toss out the rest. I got pretty proficient at lucid dreaming, but started working again and lost the "knack".

Anyway back to lucid dreaming and muscimol... I ordered an ounce of them (dried) from an online head shop. I started out with the standard dose (8th), and a few hours later still wasn't feeling anything... so I figured I'd need to eat the entire ounce to feel anything. A couple hours after eating the ounce it really kicked in and I was tripping too hard, so I just went to sleep...

I was only asleep for a split second and woke back up. But I wasn't ~sure~ I was really awake. I did a couple reality tests - looked at my hands, looked in the mirror - and everything seemed right. But I still wasn't quite sure I was really awake yet, so I went to see if I could stick my finger through the mirror.

Well it went in... I went downstairs and my brother was there, in someone was in the kitchen with broken glass trying to get me. So I just run in the bathroom and jump into the mirror... then wake up in my bed, and find out I'd been sleeping for over 12 hours.

Sooo.... I figured these things could be really good for lucid dreaming, if I could just get the dosing right. I read that the yellow powder under the caps is the part with the most muscimol, so I ate about a gram of the yellow dust and laid down for a little meditation and sleep...

I got into the lucid dream pretty quick... I had my watch on in my dream, and I could see all the digits on it, and it was keeping pretty accurate time in the dream. The Muscimol high really helped with dream control, at least staying inside the dream. Any time I felt like I was about to wake up, I would just wake back up in a bed inside the dream instead of my real bed.

I won't go into all the details of the dream, but I had a fair amount of control of the dream. I was pretending I didn't know I was dreaming just seeing how far I could get in each dream... I must have had 100 dreams (waking back up inside another dream instead of waking up). About 5 days went by in dream time (the watch was fairly accurate), yet when I woke up only about 45 minutes went by in "real time".

Don't do what I did and eat the whole ounce... it took awhile for that to wear off. ;) If you do it just start with a little of the yellow dust till you figure out how much you need. I've had some pretty good lucid dreams on as little as 1/4 of a gram of the dust.

In conclusion - if you're looking to get high while you're awake, look for something else. But for lucid dreaming... it's the stuff dreams are made of.

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Originally Posted by Borislav

As a chemist, I have studied the properties of Ibotenic acid and Muscimol beforehand. One of the many effects produced by these compounds, found in the Amanita Muscaria fungus, is coma-like sleep with vivid dreams. I am in no way interested in trying this, but I am just wondering if anyone has tried consuming this fungus before going to bed. If so, was it easier to become lucid?

*I am in no way condoning the use of Amanita Muscaria as a lucid aid. The negative and toxic effects of Ibotenic acid can be severe to the point of death.

Thanks,
Asmodean

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Asmodean,
As you probably know already, it is wise to take responses on this topic with a huge grain of salt. There is a lot of misinformation from imprecise minds.

I have some experience with amanita muscaria. However, I have yet to experience lucid dreaming. The maximum dosage I have tried is approximately 3grams, dried of course. I do not recommend eating it raw; you would be WASTING the mushroom. Dry to cracker crisp in your oven (low temperature) or food dehydrator. This exhausts CO2, converting ibotenic acid to the more potent muscimol. So, as you might guess, it would be foolish to drink beer or any carbonated beverage along with this dried mushroom as you risk converting the muscimol to the less potent (and potentially sickening) ibotenic acid.

Muscimol is a GABA-A agonist, much like ethyl alcohol is. It is a natural Xanax, an anxiolytic. No wonder it has historical usage as a marriage/fertility sacrament as well as a tonic before battle (Vikings). Without anxiety (fear) there remains both love and COURAGE. It feels good! It is an excellent sleep aid as well. Muscimol is better than alcohol, which has replaced amanita muscaria as a sacrament. There is no hangover. And just look at the destruction that alcohol has wrought in Russia and throughout the world. Alcohol is most definitely the most harmful liver and social toxin ever. Mushrooms don't come close!

Apparently, there is a trace amount of muscarine in this mushroom. I have NEVER heard or read ANY report of this being a problem for ANYONE. You would be more likely to poison yourself with muscarine from a clitocybe or inocybe mushroom. The mere mention of the tiny amount of muscarine in amanita muscaria is really warrantless. It's akin to scaring people away from eating apples, which contain ARSENIC. Such talk is simply the remnants of negative propaganda and fungiphobia. (Fuck YOU, Joseph Stalin, killer of 100 million of your own people throughout Russia, including cultures whose societies revolved around such beneficial practices. May Joseph Stalin rot in Hell for all eternity.).

I hope this is helpful.

Mukhomor

Tommo,
Do NOT confuse muscimol with muscarine. The trace amount of muscarine in amanita muscaria is hardly worth mentioning. It's like scaring people from eating apples, which contain trace amounts of ARSENIC. Your paragraph should be retracted to prevent further confusion.

Sincerely,
Mukhomor

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Originally Posted by TeaSea

Your post confuses me... are you planning on trying this?

Is the fungus used at all in medicine?

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YES. Muscimol is used as a powerful sedative in neuroscience experiments where it is infused (injected) directly into the brain of the subject (mouse, rat, dog, etc.) in order to prevent the subject's own epinephrine from ruining the experiment. Basically, they are chilling out the subject so they don't freak out in terror.

Sincerely,
Mukhomor