title says it all!!!!
what are the best lucid dreaming supplements??
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title says it all!!!!
what are the best lucid dreaming supplements??
of all the forums in the universe, i thought that this would be the right place to ask this question.......????
B6 lol
Just have a look in this Lucid Supplements section.
Galantamine and Choline together seem to be, by far, the most effective supplements.
Be careful to order from a reputable business. You can't buy them in stores in most places.
Hi !
I've just read Thomas Yuschak's book "Advanced lucid dreaming- the power of supplements" and I would like to know, how many of you are actually taking supplements? Wich combination of supplements do you use and do you really get "high level" lucid dreams using them?
Sorry, if I'm posting in the wrong thread.. is there another topic about this?
I haven't been here for a while..
This is the right thread, i was expecting more responses aswell.Quote:
Sorry, if I'm posting in the wrong thread.. is there another topic about this?
I haven't been here for a while..
@tommo
Is choline Bitartrate the right stuff, and how do you use it, i mean do you take a tea spoon or table spoon of that powder and mix it with your drink??? Are there any side effects if you take tooo much of that stuff, can it do noticable harm to your body??
edit***
would this be any good??
Choline Bitartrate powder 500g(1.1LB) smart cognitive | eBay
Don't be shy to add links to other good supplements people:)
As I said, most people are either using B vitamins, Calea Zacatechichi, or the most popular and effective - Galantamine + Choline. Galantamine is not a supplement really, it's a drug. But it's very safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by beijaflor
Don't buy from ebay. Personally I wouldn't buy anything from ebay or amazon that I intend to ingest, it's just asking for trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet987
Get Alpha GPC. Choline bitartrate is good, but Alpha GPC is better. You can probably get either in your local supermarket.
Too much choline won't do anything. Your body won't even use it and you'll expel it as waste.
You can actually get enough choline from food. But if you're taking Galantamine, you need extra choline usually.
Most people here buy it Galantamine + choline in one pill, from Advanced Dream Nutrition: Dreamamins With Galantamine
I'm not sure how good they are, but pretty much everyone, as far as I can tell, gets it from there and has reported no problems.
I also recently found cerebralhealth.com which has Galantamine made by Memeron. I have no idea how good this product is and I can't really seem to find any
reviews or anything on it. But cerebralhealth also sells bulk Galantamine powder if you want to save money.
With Galantamine, only take it, AT THE MOST, once every three days. No more.
cool, thanks for the info!!!!
Thanks for the information, too...
Another question: where do you get these supplements? I live in Germany and Galantamine and Melatonin for expample are only available with prescription here...
I wanted to try Galantamine+ Choline, but Galantamine seems extremely expensive :/
I have tried several supplements personally. Vitamins, 5-HTP and Choline salts didn't do much on their own. I have tried Galantamind (4 mg Galantamine together with 100 mg Choline Citrate and 50 mg vitamin B5) twice. The first time I took it, I didn't fall asleep, but I had very interesting and intense hypnagogia experience. The second time I took it, I couldn't sleep for about 3 hours and then I had a WILD. Unfortunately I was woken up quickly.
Now I am awaiting Lucid Dreamer from dreamamins.com (4 mg Galantamine + 200 mg Choline) and GPC. The Galantamine + Choline combo is considered to be the most effective LD supplement.
@madvorak thank's for the replay.
Another thing, looking at dreamins.com. What is a yahoo shopping cart wtf:?, i'm used to buying stuff trough paypal.
Did i get it wrong, they don't do orders with paypal like everyone else???
Or maybe i'm just being retarded?? You have to register at some yahoo store first wtf
You can order both on the web. Of course you will have to wait a while until you get your packages, unless it's some expensive DHL order which i doubt....Quote:
I live in Germany and Galantamine and Melatonin for expample are only available with prescription here...
Im still experimenting with some of this stuff. But I would recommend:
1: Galantamine | 4MG - 8MG. I would buy the "Pro-Galantamine" from Dreamamins. It's 96-100 percent pure tested Galantamine and has nothing else mixed in except the natural Red Lilly Planet form of Galantamine. This allows you to mix in what you like and doses you like. Even Dreamamins recommends this over their other products. You can mix in things such as Choline, B6, or whatever might work for you. They have two other products called "Lucid Dreamer" and "Dreamscape". Skip both of those. They have Choline or Melatonine in them. Also 100 percent vegetarian. Comes in 4MG. I wish they did have a 6MG though.
2: Choline. Make it sure its pure. Just "Choline". You can usually get the 500MG dose tablets. Cut it down too 250-400MG if you want by cutting the tablet. Again nothing else in the bottle but Choline. Sometimes Choline bottles come with other ingrediants that aren't needed.
3: Melatonine. Buy this again all natural pure. Some come with B6...others come with other vietnam stuff. Stay away from that. Just buy the pure "Meltonine" with nothing it. Nature Made is the brand I bought. 1MG - 3MG bottles Ive seen. If you want you can add in B6 later on by buying it seperate. Melatonine helps with the sleeping.
Buy all of these three seperate if you can. Im in the USA so its cheap. On Amazon i could get Melatonine and Choline seperate for a total of like $16.00 for the both.
Ive used G+C and it works. But...as I recently posted...It can give me bad insomia unless I fall alseep RIGHT AWAY. I experimented with taking it before bed and was up for six hours straight (I did this on purpose to see how it would work before bed.) So if you take it three-four hours in the middle of the night go to bed and fall asleep fast. If you cant...try adding Melatonine which is what Im gonna do. Or take Melatonine before bed. 2MG-3MG is enough. They also have time release but I never tried it.
I haven’t tried any B6/B12 yet...Probably not going too because it can kill the affects of the above stuff. I don’t want to start adding in a whole bunch of vits either, and start taking sixty herbs or Vietnams just to LD or AP. Take the above every three days or twice a week. No more or you'll lose the sensation. Check and see if they're legal in your country the above. In the USA they are, and easy to obtain.
I would also stay away from Galantmind unless you want all that other stuff in it. Ive seen some debate about how pure the Galant. is because they mix in a lot of other stuff into the their capsules. Here is from the GalantaMind website on whats in one capsule of Galantmind Plus:
Vitamin C (calcium ascorbate) 600 mg 1000%
Vitamin E (d-alpha-tocopheryl acid succinate)
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine) 5 mg
Folate (as folic acid) 267 mcg
Vitamin B12 166mcg
Calcium 132mcg
Green Tea Life 233mg
Turmeric (wth is that? lol)
Quercetin
Galantamine hydrobromide (extracted from Galanthus nivalis) 8MG
Lithium sulfate monohydrate
silicon dioxide
GalantaMind Regular:
Pantothenic acid (Vitamin B5 as calcium pantothenate) 100MG
Choline (as choline dihydrogen citrate) 200MG
Galantamine hydrobromide (extracted from Galanthus nivalis) 8 mg
Rice flour
silicon dioxide
Man...that is just waaayyy too much fillers for each product. You just want Galantamine pure...nothing put Galantamine. And you can mix in what you want such as 200-400 Choline...etc. You'll for sure need Choline at least 200MG-500MG. Its just when you buy G and C seperate you can mix such as 4MG of G with 400MG of Cor 8MG of G with 500MG-600MG of C. And add M if you want if you can't sleep...and if you find you dont like using M you can cut it out.
PS: I got Choline and Melatonie from Amazon. Like $8.00 a bottle each for 200 tablets. Just make sure they're pure and dont have secondary ingrediants mixed in like "Melatonie with B6" or "Choline with Whatever." Get tablets not salt powders. Amazon is fine because it comes usually straight from the company via Amazon. Just make sure the bottles have the protected seal on them. Stay away from ebay. Also check the experiation on all of them. Make sure they expire in 2013 or 2014. Getting a bottle of G or Choline and it expiring in December of 2012...well lol. That wont work.
You're basically trying to summarize this entire forum in one thread. There is a ton of information in here. You just need to do a little searching.
The Galantamine discussion is here. Of course it is over 40 pages long, but it is worth the read if you are planning on taking the drug. Took me a few days to plow through it, but I highly recommend it. There are a ton of other threads in here about supplements/foods/phone apps/etc... Just take a look around.
I've had my most success with Galantamind (Galantamine+choline+b5). I sometimes add Alpha GPC, but haven't seen any improvement. I always take it with 200-300mg L-theanine to help with the insomnia. I have gotten somewhat tolerant to Galantamine and it no longer causes the insomnia that it did in the beginning (which was really bad). If your insomnia is severe, you can add a couple of Melissa (lemon balm) pills to help. My success rate is somewhere around 50% with this drug.
I've had a little success with Huperzine-A by itself. Not quite as strong as Galantamine though so you can't be too sleepy when you take it. Best after at least 6 hours of sleep. I would say I'm probably around 20-30% successful with Hup-A.
I've had a little success with Dream Boost, which I bought from Amazon.com. I took it after 6 hours of sleep and was quite groggy after waking. I have gotten lucid though. Probably like a 20-30% success rate.
Melatonin is great for dreams (at least it is for me) and it's relatively cheap. It makes my dreams crazier and helps my recall. I have gotten lucid on Melatonin + 50mg B6 taken at bed time, but this is rare for me. Success rate for this combo is probably like 5%. BTW, too much B6 keeps me awake. I usually cut a 100mg pill in half when I want to take it.
Peanut butter, apple juice and cheese have had zero affect on my dreams. I have eaten them right before bed on many occasions. Success rate is 0%
I've also tried a handful of other things (ZMA, GABA, Kava Kava, etc..) with little to no effect. Kava did give me some crazy dreams, but it's a pain to prepare and tastes nasty. I haven't tried pill form.
These are my personal experiences. Yours will be different, I gaurantee it. Different substances affect people differently since every body chemistry is different. What works for me may not work for you and vice versa.
I haven't been approved to advertise by mods yet so I won't suggest my first recommendation... :)
Besides that, I have had great results with ZMA. I found this to work much better than 5HTP for me. I also make a WBTB blend of tea using Calea Zacatechichi but I don't offer that one for sale since the FDA has labeled it as a poisonous plant not fit for human consumption.
Thanks for all the reply's, i'll be doing more reading & less talking from now on.
I just found while researching more on Galantamine (Razadyne) 8MG caps at an online pharmacy place called "Smart Nutrition". It says its $40.00 for 60 Capsules of 8MG Galantamines. Plus about $4 or $5.00 shipping in USA. Seems to be the best one so far by price. Never ordered from them though. The ones at dreamains are $32.00 with about $4.00 shipping for 60 4MG capsules. So you're getting double the dose for about the same price per capsule through "Smart Nutrition".
Gosh. I found out Razadyne is fully FDA approved too which is good. Razadyne is the original name of Galantamine...and there's actually a syrup time release form 8MG that release like a the 8MG over about an eight hour time span slowly, but you have to get a perscription through your doctor on that. Dang it goes all the way up too 32MG per one tablet (have to get a persciption for anything 8MG up and the tablet ones). I was off the wall hyper just having a 4MG...I can only imagine someone taking one 32MG (but the report says anything past 8MG is persciption only for those with Alzheimer's disease )
Helmet987, I didn't mean to suggest you should read more and talk less. I just meant that your subject is very broad and fairly tough to answer. I would bet that if you surveyed everyone on here, you would get very different answers from most people. Everyone has different experiences. It will take a bit of effort on your part, but the information you are looking for most likely already exists in this forum.
Probably the best way to answer your question is that Galantamine + Choline tends to come up more often than not as the "go to" supplement to help lucid dreaming. There are lots of other options though.
Grey is right. Also keep in mind people have different views on what a Lucid Dream is. Some will say its just a fantasy of the mind, some say a dream you can control, others will say the hidden key to within us, and some will say (there are forums and many books written about this since the 19th century) and Lucid Dreams might be Mental or Astral Plane projections (a theory by people that believe in AP that our Astral Body leaves our physical everynight and hovers just a little above or below our physical but we are unconscious to know it.) So when doing reading you'll find a mix bag of theories on this topic. Different answers, different experiences, different theories on the topic. I seen so many theories on it since researching it going back to the 1980s. Robert Monroe is the pioneer in modern day writings on this and wrote some books about it during the 1970s in theory (Journies out of the Body).
I would always recommond learning this art first without suppliments than using them as a backup alternative or just a secondary option (like using it twice a week). I do not believe it's cheating...but at the same time...one wants to also have LDs without taking herbs. Make sure the herbs and Vits you buy are natural and pure and FDA "can get it almost at any drug store over the counter" approved...and consulte your doctor if you feel it might be dangerious to your health.
nah, everything's cool:), i mean i am no expert in things such as LD supplements and that is why i rather listen to people that know stuff, rather then say anything myself.
Also, sorry about my bad English in advance:)
About myself, well i have had about 3 Ld's all in the last 2 years, (nothing prior to that) all three because i used to sleep on the side not on the back, and in all three cases because i would roll on my hand at night the blood stream would be cut off, so after such a thing would happen then just a few minutes later i could follow my dreams with my mind awake.
@ace55 yes i know, what astral travel is, i've tryed the "rope technique" for countless nights + the "mind split effect" aswell
i have never had a full obe exit, but i have had cases where my feet would be above my physical body while at the same time my astral hed & neck would be below me in the matrace. Sometimes i would even put the alarm clock on, wake up at 3 o'clock at night, hoping for better conditions & what not. All in all very dissapointing results in that field for me....
The last thing about myself, ( very offtopic ) that i want to share is that
I do meditation every now & then, nothing too much, i used to do it more, but i guess my chakras tend to remain active.
Even if i dont meditate for 3 weeks or more, every day when i go out in public when people walk by very often i tend to get very strong vibrations in my heart, spleen, brow, crown & root chakras, The thing is that i dont like it myself. Sometimes when i sit in a bar with my friends and i start a conversation with someone or someone chats me up, i very often get very strong vibrations, sometimes it feels like someone is stabbing you in the center of your heart, it does not feel like a stab it feels more like a electric pulse of energy.
Growing up i would go to events & be in large crowds and everyting would be okay, but now i tend to feel a very strong anxiety & discomfort.
sometimes when i even go to the local supermarket, i feel such strong pulses in my brow chakra, also i feel like everyone is looking at me.
Sometimes i would be in a room with a few colleagues talking about stuff, when some other person would enter the room ( a very nice & kind & good person), who i have no beef with, and suddenly i start to feel a vibrational discomfort and i just want to get away.
Now you may wonder, why i bring the issue about meditation & chakras up.
Sometimes, in the past, i used to meditate before bedtime. And the thing is, that i have no dream recall on these specific nights, no nothing.
Now i dont meditate anymore, but very often before i go to bed (hoping for a LD) i swallow my supplements (vitamins, mugwort, melatonin, wormwood )
The stuff which i already have, then i go to sleep, BUT INSTEAD OF HAVING ANY LUCID DREAMS, I HAVE STRONG VIBRATIONS IN MY BROW CHAKRA, usually when i wake up in the morning or sometimes even at night i have to go & get some aspirin to make my headache go away.
So, now you know.....
Well I take back anything I said about Galatamine. Ive had bad experience with it the last two weeks trying it lol. I lucid everytime I DON'T use it haha. It makes me so hyper after taking it I feel like I can fly...or like a kid that just ate ten bags of Cotton Candy. But...thats just me. I seen others on here that have had no problems with it. It could be because I dont have a strong tolerence to caffeene or stimulate drugs because I hardly ever take in caffeene. I was informed by a nurse friend however Galatamine can cause long term harm down the road for young healthy people. I wrote about that in my above post called "Galatamine Insomia" and she also showed me a FDA warning issued in 2005 about it which I researched and found here. So be careful. Im not using G anymore...I stopped today after I tried it one more time and had another no sleep night (and I took it properly as I should). Even with Melatonine I still had a bad reaction.
"Galantamine hydrobromide (marketed as Razadyne, formerly Reminyl) Information
FDA ALERT [3/2005]
FDA and other international health authorities are reviewing the safety of Razadyne after data from two clinical studies indicated that people taking the drug had a higher death rate than those taking a placebo (sugar pill). Based on this information, FDA has asked the manufacturer to revise the labeling. Please ask your healthcare provider if Razadyne is right for you.
This information reflects FDA’s preliminary analysis of data concerning this drug. FDA is considering, but has not reached a final conclusion about, this information. FDA intends to update this sheet when additional information or analyses become available.
Healthcare Professional Information
Healthcare Professional Sheet
Prescribing Information3
Other Information
Regulatory History of Galantamine from Drugs
Adverse reactions or quality problems experienced with the use of this Product may be reported to the FDA's MedWatch Adverse Event Reporting program either online, by regular mail or by fax, using the contact information at the bottom of this page.
Contact FDA
1-800-332-1088
1-800-FDA-0178 Fax
Report a Serious Problem
MedWatch Online5
Regular Mail: Use
Mail to: MedWatch 5600 Fishers Lane
Rockville, MD 20857"
I heard something bad about Galantamine, too. (But the main reason why I first want to use other supplements is, that the others are easier to get I have Vit B6 anyway and have a prescription for Melatonin (Jetlag) )
Has anybody of you already talked to a doctor about that? Or do you ask your doctor before taking lucid dreaming supplements? (lol, I' don't know if my doctor doesn't even know what LD is..)
What about Vitamin B6 and Melatonin?
I tried Vitamin B6 but it only worked at a very high dosage, so the border line between producing wonderful LD's and insomnia causing was quite thin so I thought about using it in combination with Melatonin...
Since I wouldn't use supplements more than once a week anyway, I could combinate a very high dosage of Vit B6 with a small dose of Melatonin... anyone tried that out?
Always ask your doctor if you are not sure or don't feel safe about something. For example even using B6 can have nerve system damage if taken too much. I believe more than 1MG-2MG a day...
"Taking vitamin B6 on a regular basis reduces pain on a longer term. The amount of B6 that you can take daily without adverse effects is 100 milligrams. According to the National Institute of Health, taking more than that per day can result in nerve damage to your arms or legs." - ehow. Ive seen this on other sites too.
Yeah, doctors might know about LDing but they may take various views on it. Some people dimiss LDs as silly and not "scientific".
Well, I feel quite silly asking my doctor for a prescription for LD supplements (since I'm only 15).
Oh. You're a teenager. I would talk to your parents or guardians than. They might know more of what will work or not work on you. Herbs/medicine of any kind can be toxic if mixed. So check and see if you dont have any allergies, or health issues, or on any medications. In other words...talk to your parents about it.
Have you tried the natural approach at LDing without the suppliments? You're still young so this is a good time to get into the art of LDing from a natural means. When ya get older you'll feel good knowing you can LD at times natural and don't have to fall back on herbs/legal drugs.
I already did that... but I'm quite informed about my body, that's not the problem (no allergies, no medication, no health issues and the doctor said, my body is at the level of an 18-year old) but I'm worrying if taking drugs like Galantamine (though I would only take a very small dosage and only once a week) over a very long time (since I'm quite young, assumed I would take it for a period of 50 years) it could damage something..
(btw. sorry for bad English)
That's a question I can't answer. There's been debate about it. But...its still a fairly new market drug at least in the west. Only hit the pharmacys/perscription status in the 1990s.
I posted some warnings below on this threat that have come up about it. I know it can cause massive insomia. I can not sleep at all if I use more than 2MG of Gal. I also believe without Choline that Gal won't work as a lucid aid, but just brings more vivid recall.
Yeah, they wouldn't give you any of these drugs. But.... there may be some good news. Piracetam is being studied for more uses than just Alzheimer's.Quote:
Originally Posted by beijaflor
That's pretty much the only thing you can get it for now.
From wiki:
Some sources suggests that its overall effect on lowering depression and anxiety is higher than improving memory.[45]
Piracetam is useful as a long-term treatment for clotting, coagulation, and vasospastic disorders such as Raynaud's phenomenon[42] and deep-vein thrombosis.[17][43]
Piracetam has been studied in an extensive number of clinical experiments, and has shown positive results in the treatment of post-stroke aphasia, epilepsy, cognitive decline following heart and brain surgery, dementia,[6] and myoclonus.[9][10] Its peripheral vascular effect has indicated its use for vertigo, dyslexia, and sickle cell anemia as well.[4]
So, basically.... what you could do is get it prescribed for one of those things if you have any of them.
Piracetam has been proven safe over many many years. I don't know if Galantamine is not safe, but two studies confirming each other means it could be. So why risk it when there's another alternative.
Piracetam is over the counter (I just started looking into it after your post). Amazon has it for about $20 for sixty pills. I seen another online drug store selling it for $15.00 for the same. 800MG.
I have no knowledge on this supp so I can't comment on it except I just saw some reviewer say he used it with Choline-B (like we tried Galantamine with Choline-B) and had an increase in concentration and awareness throughout the day. This is what I pulled on it myself:
"Piracetam 800 mg 60 vcaps | International Nutrition- this is a heat sensitive item and is non-returnable
Piracetam (also called 2-oxo-Pyrrolidine Acetamide, Nootropil) is a derivative of the neurotransmitter GABA (Gamma Amino Butyric Acid). Chemically related to the amino acid Pyroglutamic Acid (Pyrrolidine Carboxylic acid), which occurs in cerebrospinal fluid and plays an important role in cognitive functioning.
Neurochemical Effects
•Enhances Brain Metabolism (By increasing Glucose Utilization, Blood & Oxygen Flow) [Boosts mental energy & cerebral circulation].
•Increases Cerebral Phospholipids & Cellular Membrane Fluidity (By interacting with the polar head moieties of the phospholipid bilayer) [Supports healthy neuron communication & structure].
•Helps with Lucid Dreaming
•Supports Cognitive Receptors (By amplifying the density of the Muscarinic Cholinergic [Frontal Cortex, Striatum, & Hippocampus], NMDA (N-Methyl-D-Aspartate) [Hippocampus], & AMPA (Alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5-Methyl-4-isoxazole-Propionic Acid) [Cerebral Cortex] Receptors) [Strengthens neurotransmitter receptors involved in memory and neuroprotection].
•Stimulates the Corpus Callosum, an area of the brain that controls communication between the left and right hemispheres (Increases communication between both hemispheres) [Involved in speech and creative thinking].
•Stimulates the Locus Coeruleus, (specialized neurons) [Involved in information processing, attention, cortical/behavioral arousal, learning and memory]"
I wouldn't do too much experimentation as a 15-year old. I know that's not what you want to hear. A good multivitamin would be good, but probably won't help you with LDing. Be careful with B6. It's good for you, but too much is bad for you (as stated above).
FYI, I never take B6 before bed without taking Melatonin. I'm not a doctor, but these two seem to be fine together. The combo has gotten me lucid, but generally it just gives me vivid dreams.
Piracetam is recommened by Thomas Yuschak as a way to counter the effects of Galantamine the morning after taking it. It is supposed to reduce the time you need to wait between doses. Personally, I have taken it and I love it. I wouldn't recommend it to a teenager because again, I'm not a doctor. It did give me massive mental alertness during the day. I wish I knew about this in college because I probably would have taken it before all my exams. I have taken it before bed and didn't see any effect on my dreams.
Well maybe Piracetam would be an alternative..
I have been taking antidepressants for a few months but I stopped taking them because they had negative effects on my lucid dreams... so maybe Piracetam could do both, lower my depression and help me to get more lucid dreams..
Piracetam is definitely NOT an alternative to Galantamine.
Piracetam is used to counter desensitization of acetylcholine receptors caused by Galantamine
Yes, that's what I heard, too (well, I read it in Thomas Yuschaks book) but maybe it could also have positive effects.
Some people do report having weird dreams on Piracetam. I am not one of those people. I just remember reading that somewhere. I think it was on this forum.
I took a second galantamine/choline on the same night because I couldn't remember if I had already taken one or not. What do I do? Vomit it up? Or sit it out?
Even if you took a double dose of 8mg of galantamine, you should be ok. Same with choline. How much did you take?
Yeah thanks. Im feeling a bit better now. Just small bouts of nausea and some tingling of the limbs. I still won't make that mistake again. My advice for new users (like myself), dont rely on these supplements to actually give you a lucid dream or even do anything major. It may lead to you believing that you hadn't taken anything in the first place. Excuse me if I sound like a gronk, but I'm still a lil dizzy. Also, hehe, don't self diagnose, that only leads to the conclusion that you've overdosed and freaks you out, haha :/Quote:
Originally Posted by gab