Lucid supplements and failed attempts (help request)

[BobRoss]

Hi guys, I've been trying to lucid dream for about 4 and a half months and just wanted to share my experience and ask for guidance. I had 2 lucid dreams which lasted 10 seconds max because I freaked out and this was about 3 months ago and never had one since that I recall atleast. I should also share some of my background since that can be helpful to understand why it is that I have such a hard time. I have depression as well as a mild case of anxiety and also poor memory and dream recall. I've been trying to increase my dream recall by starting a journal and started to recall dreams since for the past 7 years or so I haven't remembered my dreams so this is a positive thing it is gradually getting better in that respect. I tried many techniques from easy to hard such as wild which I practiced after 25min wbtb about 10 times or more aswell as in the afternoon from 1-5 pm. I also tried MILD, dream recall meditation before sleep, binaural beats before sleep and after wbtb, FILD which was supposed to be the easiest and high rate of success but I tried almost everynight and nothing. After trying all these techniques I figured I need some lucid aids since it might be a chemical inbalance or something due to depression and tried taking 50mg of b6 after wbtb and both times I had trouble sleeping afterwards maybe I need to stay up longer so I can be more tired and fall asleep faster which I will try tonight. I also tried taking instant coffee withluke warm water which tasted horrible lol and the two times I tried this my dream recall went up dramatically but also had trouble sleeping after, but eventually when I did my dreams were more vivid than usual but still very foggy . Caffeine seems to do the trick so I tried green tea before bed and I seemed to recall having 5 dreams and remembering the last dream vividly. I was wondering what I should do to help me fall asleep and if there isnt much i might try having melatonin aswell as b6 in a wbtb though I dont want to mix too many supplements and I heard bad things about melatonin for depression as it can worsen or cause depression. When I was taking the b6 I didnt wait 25-30 mins, but probably about 5 mins so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.

[FryingMan]

Hi BobRoss, Having gradually increasing dream recall is great! And you've gotten lucid so you've proven to yourself that you can do it! Yes stimulating substances can help in LDing but as you note, it can make it harder to sleep. There is a lot of junk written about FILD. FILD is a WILD and WILDs can be tricky, especially for beginning LDers. Heck, I've had over 25 DILDs but (barely) one WILD. The trick with all WILDs is that you must fall asleep! Seems so simple but many people hold too strongly on to awareness when WILDing. It's a balance, you have to try to find the "place" where you can hold a pearl of awareness and yet fall asleep -- no easy trick. Don't stress about progress, as stress and worry can prevent LDs. Just be happy with your recall and keep on with your attempts. I can recommend that you open a workbook in the DreamAcademy section, either introduction or DILD class, and get feedback on your attempts that way. As for supplements, melatonin is generally considered a REM-suppressing sleep aid. Taken at some levels (dose depends on person) it causes REM rebound which can cause more vivid dreams in the later morning. Taking too much though can leave you feeling really draggy the next day. The "super" lucid dreaming supplement is galantamine, which when taken in a mixture with various forms of choline has the reputation of giving long, vivid, (and for those with LD training) lucid dreams. For me it just keeps me awake. Well I did sleep once and watched a dream forming lucidly but lost lucidity immediately after the dream started . My personal take is that supplements are more useful when you're already beyond the very beginning stages of LDing and have some experience with how LDs feel. Also there are a lot of fundamentals one should follow for successful recall: healthy diet, regular fairly intense exercise (helps with depression), regular sleep schedule and getting enough sleep, and so on, look these up if you haven't already. Good luck!

[Nfri]

I was wondering what I should do to help me fall asleep L-theanin

[Voldmer]

In my experience it can be quite difficult to sleep after ingesting B6. Nonetheless, it is just about the best thing for lucidity (and especially for dream recall) for me. I combine it with L-tyrosine. But, in order to actually sleep, I need something to bring that about, and L-Theanine, as mentioned by Nfri, does the trick in my case. I almost invariably take this combination during an WBTB-effort after 4-5 hours of sleep. It increases my chance of lucidity by a factor of 3 or 4 (not measured precisely). Since you have depression, you might consider 5-HTP, or St. Johns wort, before bedtime, unless of course you take SSRI medication (this would probably boost your serotonin levels too much); these herbs have been known to boost dreaming activity - although not necessarily lucidity. Actually, come to think of it, L-theanine on its own, taken before bedtime in a fairly large dose (400 mg), probably increases my chance of lucidity as well quite considerably, whilst also working fine as a sleep aid.

[BobRoss]

FryingMan - I stress too much over this shit and get frustrated because that I waisted another night even though I've been trying soo hard. I get what your saying and I definatly need to have a healthier lifestyle and that it can be more beneficial than lucid aids. The strange thing about Lucid dreaming is that I am so determined to have them that I am willing to change my life around and I am hoping that It would help me get over depression. Nfri - I might go pick up L-theanin, seems promising since its in green tea and I've only heard good things about it. Voldmer - Idk about 5-htp because of the side effects, but from what I found on the net St. Johns Wort is a miracle vitamin for depression and if it can help for that as well as improve my chances of having LD's then its also worth a try.

[FryingMan]

FryingMan - I stress too much over this shit and get frustrated because that I waisted another night even though I've been trying soo hard. I get what your saying and I definatly need to have a healthier lifestyle and that it can be more beneficial than lucid aids. The strange thing about Lucid dreaming is that I am so determined to have them that I am willing to change my life around and I am hoping that It would help me get over depression. Nfri - I might go pick up L-theanin, seems promising since its in green tea and I've only heard good things about it. Voldmer - Idk about 5-htp because of the side effects, but from what I found on the net St. Johns Wort is a miracle vitamin for depression and if it can help for that as well as improve my chances of having LD's then its also worth a try. I too used to stress about "missing another night," and all that ended up accomplishing was weeks of insomnia. I think this is somewhat analogous to getting back to sleep: there's the paradox of intent: right at the moment where you stop "trying to sleep", that's when you fall asleep. It's not a perfect analogy with LDing, you *do* need to "try" to LD, but you can't force yourself to LD, and holding stress about LDing is not the same thing as "trying to LD." By "trying to LD" I mean the obvious things: WBTB, the occasional WILD attempts, setting intention at night, meditation, working seriously on dream recall, dream journaling, spending time on LD forums, reading LD books, reading other people's dream journals, perhaps dream yoga exercises and most importantly, day practice. You have to take a long view approach: Your brain must be made to be more and more compatible with lucid dreaming. Every day that you spend doing awareness/mindfulness exercises, you're putting another chunk of awareness into the LDing bank which will earn interest and you'll reap the rewards in the future. Be absolutely confident of this. It has been shown time and time again to be true. Some people are closer to when that LD interest earning account matures, some farther. But you absolutely do not earn interest if you take your capital (your attention) out of the account (you stop trying). And then it will take even longer to reach the goal if you start again. So enjoy the process, particularly enjoy all your dreams that you recall, non-lucids can be really fun and funny and interesting as well. Always reach for more recall. And (here's the hard part during dry spells), stay positive! *Know* that you will lucid dream, and that they will come more and more frequent. Just keep reading and working on it assiduously. This forum is a great place of support and camaraderie along the LD path. Try joining the next LD competition! Magical things happen during the competitions, people get huge spikes to their LD frequency very often, and dream recall as well. My two best LD streaks ever (7 in 15 days, and 7 in 10 days) happened during the competitions. (There's a lesson in there about the success of goal settings and motivations, as LaBerge mentions). Now, to cultivate the competition mindset all the time, that's my goal!

[Nfri]

Depression does not affect lucid dreaming. Depression does affect ''work'' which must be done in order to have lucid dream.

[BobRoss]

Thanks alot for your encouraging and helpful posts. This has been my first thread on Dreamviews though I've visited this site ever since I found out about lucid dreaming and most of my understanding came from here. You guys have proven to be a very insightful and caring community. I do have fun with my dreams when I have them since they are good topics for conversations and mine can get very bizarre and hilarious. Try joining the next LD competition! Magical things happen during the competitions, people get huge spikes to their LD frequency very often, and dream recall as well. My two best LD streaks ever (7 in 15 days, and 7 in 10 days) happened during the competitions. (There's a lesson in there about the success of goal settings and motivations, as LaBerge mentions). What did you mean by LD competitions, are there such things and how do you compete?

[FryingMan]

What did you mean by LD competitions, are there such things and how do you compete? For example: http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...read-17-a.html You have to watch for the announcements. They usually run every other month for 2 weeks, so the next one should start up in the beginning of May. Learning to use the "What's New" button to keep track of new things on the site is essential! Also subscribing to interesting threads keeps you up to date on the action on the site. There is so much good stuff on this site but sometimes you really have to dig to find it all.

[MisakaMikoto]

You should try maybe a DEILD

[BobRoss]

Thanks for the tips guys. I will try to compete once I am able to reach lucidty again and I have also tried to do DEILD many times. I seem to recall the dreams easier once I wake up at around 7 or 8 in the morning then hit snooze in an attempt to DEILD, but lucidty is still the problem for me. I Also forgot to tell you guys That I have a problem with zoning out throughout the day and I'm barely paying attention to what I'm doing unless i'm driving or talking to people and even then I feel as if I'm going in autopilot. I don't live in the moment as some might say and I've read about how that can change your life and whatnot, but I find it hard to as Its probably a coping mechanism. 5 years ago when My depression worsened and got a bad case of anxiety was when I hit the bong hard for the first time. I had tried before to get high by smoking a joint, but it didnt really have an effect on me so I smoked up with my buddies in a forest near by and I sketched hard partly because I had WAYYY too much ganja and I should of been in a more comfortable area. After that I didnt think it had an effect on me, but a month later it hit me like a truck, I became very anxious and developed depersonalization and derealization. I never would have thought that weed would have this effect on me and most people are ignorant thinking that weed isn't the culprit think they understand how the drug works even though they havent experienced this and it hasn't effected them in a bad way. I dont want to turn this into a thread about Illegal drugs lol, but ever since then I cant stop zoning out and my memory and attention span are basically non-existant.

[BobRoss]

I bought 200mg L-theanine today. Tried it during the day and it seemed to work wonders on my anxiety, but the true test will be whether or not it will help with Dream recall and lucidity in dreams. I'll share my results tomorrow morning.

[BobRoss]

Well...Nothing happened, but thats ok. I was talking to a buddy who is a nutritionist and he mentioned ZMA which is a combo of Zinc Magnesium and B6 and couple also include more. He used to take these 3 seperate before to increase sleep quality and noticed that it made his dreams alot more vivid. I might get Zma to try it out and also try taking b6 on its own before bed rather then a wbtb to see if that would make a difference.

[BobRoss]

I tried zma last night and it seemed to keep me up all night though I felt relaxed which was the same effect with b6. Doea anyone know why this could be having this effect on me? most of the people who try this end up having a restful deep sleep a i'm getting the opposite. i'm gonna try again tomorrow but have it imediatly before bed and hopefully fall asleep before it kicks in.