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    Thread: 5-HTP sucks

    1. #1
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      5-HTP sucks

      Yesterday, I bought 5-htp and Choline as I heard combining them with Galantamine gives the best results. Where I live Galantamine is not available in drugstores, so I ordered it from the US and the shipping hasn't arrived yet.Almost every night with or without pills, I wake up after 2 hours of sleep. If I can recall dreams, I write them down. I usually have no problem getting back to sleep. Last night, I tried 100 mg 5-htp at 9:30. I fell asleep around 11:00. I woke up at 0:25, which is normal to me. I had nightmares which I didn't quite mind, because my dreams are mostly boring. It was like in a slasher movie where people get killed one by one and you don't know who the killer is untill the end. While writing it down I was so excited, It was scary but also fun. I expected to have some more exciting dreams when I went back to sleep. But it turns out I couldn't sleep a wink until 4 o'clock. I woke up again at 6:30. I did have other fun dreams. Nonetheless, I end up sleeping for about 3 hours last night. Isn't 5-htp suppose to help with sleep? Why did it give me insomnia?

      I have always been a light sleeper. If I combined 5htp with Galantamine, I would undoubtedly have even more insomnia. Should I buy L-Theanine? I heard it could help. I have already bought those supplements and don't want my money to be wasted. L-Theanine will be the last lucid dream aid I spend my money on.

    2. #2
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      Are you sure the 5-HTP caused insomnia? Could it have just been from excitement at trying something new? Try it a few more times - not in a row of course, wait a few days or a week in between to let it clear from your system, so you don't develop a tolerance. Maybe when you're used to it you'll be able to sleep better. Yeah, it always gives me pretty freaky dreams, though they can be hard to remember.
      Last edited by Darkmatters; 05-22-2014 at 04:22 AM.
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    3. #3
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      Yes I also frequently encounter "new supplement insomnia," which I think is excitement-based. Probably combined with the fact that most "vivid dream" producing supplements work by stimulating the brain, making it harder to fall back asleep.

      I didn't like 5-HTP so I threw mine away after trying it several times (100mg). I felt like crap after it in the middle of the night, and it didn't give me any boost to vividness.

      Investing time and effort in learning how to fall back asleep relatively quickly is particularly valuable in LD practice. Mix in supplements, and it's an essential skill. With galantamine, I recommend waking up fairly early, like 4 hours, or even 3.5, taking it quickly, and going right back to sleep. Do *not* daydream about exciting awesome dreams to come, I do that and it keeps me up until the G kicks in, then I'm up for hours, and in the end I just lost a night of sleep with nothing to show for it. With that timing, you'd rather use Alpha-GPC instead of the regular cholines since Alpha-GPC has a 3-hour delay to peak plasma levels. So even a 3-hour waking may be possible with enough galantamine and alpha-GPC to hit the 6th hour sweet spot (that's my main dreaming time, personally).

      Yuschak says he likes 5-HTP over melatonin for producing REM rebound, as he says waking in the middle of the night after taking melatonin at bedtime is harder to get back to sleep. I found that to be true, and with 5-HTP as well, unfortunately.

      Good luck! Yes supplements are not the easy path to awesome vivid dreams or lucid dreams, even, that people make them out to be. At least not for everybody. Having a very well established LD practice with solid day and night work is essential. Then, after that, supps can provide an occasional boost. I think that's the way to approach it.

      But it does take experimentation to find what works for you.
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    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      With that timing, you'd rather use Alpha-GPC instead of the regular cholines since Alpha-GPC has a 3-hour delay to peak plasma levels. So even a 3-hour waking may be possible with enough galantamine and alpha-GPC to hit the 6th hour sweet spot (that's my main dreaming time, personally).

      I've read Yuschak's book and according to him alpha-gpc is better than regular choline. However, where I live alpha-gpc is too expensive, so I went with choline/inositol. I just bought L'theanine yesterday. I'm not going to buy any more lucid dreaming supplements.

      Last night, I tried L'theanine + B6 after 5 hours of sleep and had a lucid dream. But like my other ones, it was short-lived,. I don't know if it had anything to do with the pills though. I have been trying to have lucid dreams for a month now and have had several, but all of them lasted less than one minute. I've tried every stabilization technique. None of them works. And the one I just had last night, I wasn't excited at all. I was just walking down a road. And then all of a sudden, I lost lucidity and woke up.
      Last edited by Freak12; 05-23-2014 at 10:51 AM.

    5. #5
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      That's a fabulous result for just one month of practice, *keep it up*. You want to rack up those lucid minutes, as you do, your brain will get more and more familiar with entering and remaining in the lucid state.

      I find it very helpful to rehearse "the moment of lucidity" in waking life: a stability approach, look around, etc. I have not been doing this recently and as a result I have not grounded my self in my recent LDs.

      Length will come. I just today had my first LD over 5 minutes in length. Somewhere between 10-15 minutes. So long that I don't remember every single detail (it was low awareness & memory, alas). Just keep doing what you're doing, stay excited and motivated, and they'll just keep getting more frequent, longer, and with better awareness. Keep up your day work and really work on daytime awareness and constantly questioning your state. As Daniel Love writes, we spend about 10% of our lives dreaming, so really believe that *at any time* you could be dreaming!
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    6. #6
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      In my experience, 5-htp does suck. It gives me Insomnia as well. Why I think that is, is because 5-htp is supposed to keep you awake! That is probably why it causes REM-Rebound. And unless you are looking for a rebound experience then 5-htp will not likely aid in lucid dreaming. It is no wonder that you are kept awake for a while if what it does is it delays REM-sleep. I truly dislike 5-htp it is sometimes useful as an exercise aid but I would still prefer not to use exogenous serotonin. Same thing for Melatonin, to me. I can understand why you would prefer 5-htp over Melatonin. But then again, If i understood correctly it is a method for aiding in WBTB.

      You could try Tryptophan along with B6. That is most likely a better method. But in all honesty, those are interesting things in theory for experimenting with different things that affect dreaming. But a healthy lifestyle as adviced in this thread is much better soilwork for Lucid dreaming imo. (Plus, i've been looking into Pepper and ginger combo myself, it's just that i'm too lazy to up my lifestyle and haven't done much in terms of working on health)

      http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...of-method.html
      Last edited by Dthoughts; 06-01-2014 at 03:56 PM.
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    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by Freak12 View Post
      Yesterday, I bought 5-htp and Choline as I heard combining them with Galantamine gives the best results. Where I live Galantamine is not available in drugstores, so I ordered it from the US and the shipping hasn't arrived yet.Almost every night with or without pills, I wake up after 2 hours of sleep. If I can recall dreams, I write them down. I usually have no problem getting back to sleep. Last night, I tried 100 mg 5-htp at 9:30. I fell asleep around 11:00. I woke up at 0:25, which is normal to me. I had nightmares which I didn't quite mind, because my dreams are mostly boring. It was like in a slasher movie where people get killed one by one and you don't know who the killer is untill the end. While writing it down I was so excited, It was scary but also fun. I expected to have some more exciting dreams when I went back to sleep. But it turns out I couldn't sleep a wink until 4 o'clock. I woke up again at 6:30. I did have other fun dreams. Nonetheless, I end up sleeping for about 3 hours last night. Isn't 5-htp suppose to help with sleep? Why did it give me insomnia?

      I have always been a light sleeper. If I combined 5htp with Galantamine, I would undoubtedly have even more insomnia. Should I buy L-Theanine? I heard it could help. I have already bought those supplements and don't want my money to be wasted. L-Theanine will be the last lucid dream aid I spend my money on.
      I think it's a bit much to say "5htp sucks." I have had a lot of success with it. Not everything works for everyone. And not everything works the first time. Try playing with the dosage and how you take it (empty stomach vs full, with/without water, right before bed vs 1 hour before, etc). See what works for you. Don't just say "this sucks" and quit.

    8. #8
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      I threw out my 5htp because it made me feel really really bad. But you're right, everyone's different. Experimentation is key.

      I've found that the "sleep-aids" (5htp, melatonin) help with at-bedtime sleep but can have a bit of a drowsiness rebound effect where it's harder to get back to sleep in the middle of the night. Perhaps because they've suppressed REM in favor of more deep sleep, your body feels more rested earlier and so it's harder to get back to sleep.

      I have some L-Theanine but haven't tried it much yet.
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      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    9. #9
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      Yep, 5-HTP sucks. I'm also wary of any supplements or drugs which increase serotonin levels. There are way too many negative effects to take them long term (most of them).

      There is also no reason why increasing serotonin would increase chances of lucidity, I don't know where this idea even comes from.

      I keep 5-HTP for particularly bad days where I'm just feeling down or whatever, I only feel safe taking it rarely.

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