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    Thread: Galantamine, Alpha-GPC, Choline B./CDP, L-Theanine, 5-HTP, Valerian

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      Galantamine, Alpha-GPC, Choline B./CDP, L-Theanine, 5-HTP, Valerian

      7/27/14: This was the first experiment with supplements.

      11:30p: 100 mg of 5-HTP would be consumed approximately 30 minutes prior to sleep [the alarm was set for 4:40a]. Awoke around 4:00a and attempted to sleep until the designated time for the WBTB attempt but mostly lay in bed and waited in anticipation for the alarm to sound.

      4:40a: Rose from bed and quickly consumed roughly 200-250mg L-Theanine powder mixed into a few ounces of tap water along with 25 drops of a Valerian extract (menstruum ratio of 1:1.25). Shortly after (4:50a) 8mg of Galantamine veg capsule was consumed with several ounces of water, in which was dissolved 150mg Alpha-GPC, 125mg CDP Choline (Citicoline) and 200-250mg of Choline Bitartrate.

      It was storming out due severe weather in the northeast and there was a tornado advisory whining on the television before it was turned off. It was exceptionally dark outside. The lightning was bright and the sound of rain loud and intense. The reality checks were all very promising and the taste of the concoctions were just as sobering.

      5:00a: Decided on meditating in bed on a MILD technique for about 10 minutes before attempting to fall back to sleep, opposed to waking any further as wakefulness was fast gaining and getting back to sleep might prove to be an obstacle. Soon abandoned this technique and felt it best to try to relax and fall asleep as quickly as possible. A DEILD might be more likely at this point. It was hard to concentrate on falling asleep with all these expectations in mind.

      5:20-5:40a: Focusing on blotches of faint green colored illuminations stretching across the view, it now looked possible to obtain a WILD [directly from wakefulness], as the Galantamine seemed hard at work. Moments later sleep paralysis was experienced accompanied with a rather vivid hallucination. Tried to elbow the girl nearby (arms/legs would not function) and plea for help but could barely whisper half a syllable. Quickly gave up and tried to curb any fears by reasserting the fact that this was safe and merely the reaction from the supplements. Ultimately the final feeling before falling quickly into a dream was a positive one.

      Quickly gained lucidity in the first dream though it was quickly lost after an attempt to fly. Tried rubbing hands to reenter and seemed successful but recollection of the content was vague. The remaining three or four dreams were also mostly vague with the former of the series being rather vivid.

      ____________________________________________

      The results were likely muddled by the quantity of the supplements involved. Although the combination of the various cholines and the Galantamine were crucial, as the produced synergy maximizes Galantamine's ability to synthesize the production of ACh (Acetylcholine) within the brain. Alpha-GPC being the most effective and Choline-CDP being the second most effective. The two metabolize in completely different ways and function well in synchrony. The next experiment will rely solely on these paired with L-Theanine to offset the common side-effect of restlessness from the Galantamine. Also considering reducing the dosage of the GAL to 4mg instead of 8mg--again just to make sleep more obtainable after a WBTB attempt.

      L-Tryptophan, the essential primary amino acid responsible for the production of 5-HTP is said to have especially strong sleep-inducing qualities when used in conjunction with Valerian (also associated with vivid dreams). REM rebound was being sought in hopes that lucidity might be obtained in the longer stretches of REM sleep that the body would make up for. Melatonin is not suggested for this particular effect as it has been shown to inhibit Galantamine's effectiveness.

      Looking back, pairing the REM rebound technique with the other supplements and WILD/MILD techniques seems like overkill, with the possibility of the two effectively working against each other. There is also the possibility that the WBTB was too early or that the time awake was too long, or sleep too restless due to the moderately high dosage of Galantamine. With all these variables involved it is hard to determine the cause of the poor results.

      Posting a thorough account of these experiments will be the primary focus while in the pursuit of obtaining a clearer lucidity. Any thoughts, comments or advice is greatly appreciated.
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      Welcome ScannerDarkly,
      I see noteworthy experiment!
      I just suggest keep it simply. I don't know your supp history, but you don't need Choline-CDP, Alpha-GPC or Valerian to have great results on the beginning of the testing. Also 4mg Galantamine is sufficient enough.
      By my experience, if I sleep over 5 hours, I have bad results with supplementation. The best is to sleep just around 3 hours and then 1-2 hours wbtb. Trust me You can help your self add a little bit caffeine(30mg) or sulbutiamine(30mg) or nicotine(1mg) before falling asleep and you will avoid unwanted deep sleep stages.

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      Alpha-GPC is suggested to induce lucid dreams by itself and it also has the greatest synergistic relationship with Galantamine than any of the other cholines. This is all outlined in Thomas Yuschak's book Advanced Lucid Dreaming.

      I do agree entirely about the Valerian, although with the 8mg dose of GAL I wanted to be sure that I would be able to fall back asleep after the WBTB. I think next time I try it I will only use 4mg and with a higher dose of Choline Bitartrate. Also I think I will wake after 4 hours as opposed to 4.5 because the peak plasma levels for all of the supplements--with the exception of the GPC--is approximately one hour and I want to maximize the effect for the majority of my REM sleep. The Alpha-GPC peaks at about 3 hours. With that said, I am considering doing a quick WBTB 2 hours before I take the other supplements.

      As to your comment about "unwanted deep sleep," there is no such thing. All deep sleep is needed and I try to only experiment in the early morning hours just before REM sleep. I don't want to avoid any deep sleep stages as that would cause me wake up feeling unrested. Also my goal is not to experience any REM rebound effects. I appreciate your input though.

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      After wake back to bed, you fall back into the deep sleep. Mostly in the late morning. By my opinion and experience deep sleep, even the short ones after wbtb, are lucidity killers. The longer deep sleep phase before rem, the less chance to become lucid. This is what I call unwanted deep sleep. To avoid unrest, it's wise to take 5-htp to gain enough deep sleep in the first half of the night. That's why I recommend to take caffeine(30mg) or sulbutiamine(30mg) or nicotine(1mg) to avoid deep sleep completely after wbtb.

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