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    Thread: Aurora Coming in November...

    1. #1
      Member DeltaDreamer's Avatar
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      Aurora Coming in November...

      Before I even knew that the Aurora from iWinks hadn't come out yet, I was googling reviews for it and was obviously not surprised to see any.

      Though this may premature as it's not November, and redundant as there are a couple other threads, I figure a fresh approach and desire to learn anything and everything couldn't hurt.

      So with that said, what are your hopes for this device? How does it different from the Nova Dreamer or the ND2 that became stuck in development hell? Is this a cure all to not being able to LD or do you still have to incorporate proven techniques? And any other critiques or gossip out here on the interwebs!

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      Yes, and the other is *Link Removed*Neuro:On. Also, I'd like to get, e.g. ND2. However, there will be no LD masks available in the EU... I don't care. I'm not going to pay the extra VAT and duty.
      Last edited by NyxCC; 09-28-2014 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Removed link to commercial site, DV rules

    3. #3
      Member DeltaDreamer's Avatar
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      Hey, your link was removed, just name the device (I'm pretty sure that's okay, mods?!? And I'm surprised the Aurora won't be available in Europe at the very least, if that's what you're saying.

    4. #4
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      Aurora is slipping from what I can tell in the kickstarter updates. They're talking about how they're working on *prototypes*, and still working on algorithms in the lab, etc. That tells me that production is still distant, and now it's approaching mid-October, 2014. So I say that's pretty clearly a no-go for November, 2014.

      There is some chatter that lucidity institute will be coming out with an ND2 news update this month (I'll believe it when I read it).
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
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      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

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      Member DeltaDreamer's Avatar
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      Umm yeah, FryingMan, great points, leading me to that "oh crap" sinking feeling... As guess who just pre-bought one today??? THIS GUY!

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      If y'all don't know, it was pushed back to early next year, so FINGERS CROSSED!

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      I'm not shocked this product got pushed back, it doesn't even have proper placement for the ground on the mastoid, instead it's on the forehead with the other two sensors in a straight line. Unless that changes it will never give accuracy (and be noisy).

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      ^^ I realized after reading your message that I'd completely forgotten about Aurora and had stopped checking their kickstarter page entirely. They have absolutely terrible communication and backers are really upset about it, rightfully so. And they just redesigned the product *again* because it was unworkable in its current form. The backers are all fools for supporting them instead of Oneirics, which was *ready for production*.

      At least they're still working on it. Maybe they'll make a 2015 release, *maybe*. Not holding my breath (haha that's an inside joke for me since I use breath awareness these days).
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      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
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      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      ^^ I realized after reading your message that I'd completely forgotten about Aurora and had stopped checking their kickstarter page entirely.
      Heh, me too. I think this is the best approach to Kickstarter, actually... back a project, forget about it, and then when (if) the loot gets distributed, it's a pleasant surprise. But if (when) the project is perennially delayed, you can stay comfortably oblivious.

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      There's a new update if anyone is still interested (1/13/15). Their communication really does need some work -- the silence makes the waiting seem longer than it actually is. They briefly address this issue in the most recent update:

      Quote Originally Posted by iWinks
      iWinks’ new year’s resolution is to maintain better communication until production. We don’t want to delay any longer and will do our very best to stay transparent until then. Upcoming changes to our website will reflect that commitment, although priority number one remains placing our manufacturing order for your Auroras.
      Being a couple months behind schedule is not actually that unusual for this sort of thing, nor should it be as aggravating as people are making it (especially when the primary reason it was delayed was to add new features that the backers were asking for...). Never the less, more communication is needed. I think they'd find that people would be much more understanding and patient if they just checked in more frequently, even if it's just to say "still waiting on ______". Anyway, the say they are on still on schedule for a Q2 release (April-June) though alpha testers will probably be getting theirs sometime before this (early March being my guess).

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      "And they just redesigned the product *again* because it was unworkable in its current form. "

      I'm sure it was redesigned. And I'm sure it was unworkable in it's current form. I had a heated argument with the lead creator himself telling him it would never work the way they designed it. "There is nothing wrong with the design it will work perfectly." Guess not
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      Another update is available. Current delivery timeline, June for beta testers July for preorders.

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      Thanks for the notice. I'll believe it when it's in my hot little hands.

      edit: Hmm at the new price of $299 that may be: never. It's really bugging me that Aurora isn't a sleep mask and that the lights shine down from your forehead. I sleep in a very light room (and I can't change this), so I use a mask or a rolled up shirt over my eyes. But I can't use a mask with Aurora because it would block the lights. Will Aurora work at all in light surroundings? I have my doubts.
      Last edited by FryingMan; 03-05-2015 at 09:42 AM.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
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      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    14. #14
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      Maybe they'll come out with an "over mask" that covers both the device and your eyes. It also does audio cues I think, but who knows how well these eternal cues are going to work.

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      I can't use audio cues unless they have an earphone option.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    16. #16
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      It looks like iWinks are going down the Zeo route with disposable sensors!

      https://luciddreamart.wordpress.com/...tor-incarnate/

      What a rip-off!
      Last edited by Highlander; 03-10-2015 at 11:16 AM.
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    17. #17
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      That is truly disappointing. I thought the 3-snap design looked similar to the ZEO, but didn't realize the "new" sensor design was also derived from the ZEO as well. Looks like iWinks used some of the backers' money to buy the old ZEO patents instead of sticking with their original sensor design. This just makes me wonder how much they'll be selling the replacement sensors for? If its too much, I'll be going this route and making my own (perhaps a "permanent" version with solid sensors).
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      On the (hopefully) plus side, isn't the ZEO well-regarded? Maybe going with a known-good design was better for them. I really don't care where the design comes from, I just want it to work well.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
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      "On the (hopefully) plus side, isn't the ZEO well-regarded?"

      It was very good as a sleep coach. It was not designed, however to be accurate enough to detect rem accurately to the point rem could trigger an alarm, lights ect. zeo themselves stated (this is a quote) "can confuse rem with very light sleep and light awake states because zeo is only recording the front of the head" I told the iwinks design team members before when one of them posted on this sight that their rem detection would be inaccurate due to not having a proper ground electrode on the mastoid.

      Zeo as it was developed had no need to make a non noisy signal that would not confuse light awake light asleep with rem. It absolutely was still a really good device as it could still read deep sleep enough to know when to wake you, knowing you had a proper nights sleep. However this means at best this exact copy will detect rem right 1/3rd of the time. But at worst and kind of more likely given they took a design developed with a single channel made to lump stages together, shine lights while your just trying to sleep, kinda still awake and maybe on occasion you are in rem. This is not a new design, this is ether infringement, or they brought the design, but ether way this is absolutely a scam. You do not go from your own original design to some other defunct company's exact copy in less than a year, unless all you originally designed was a paperweight. The reason their original design showed no wires is because there were non, they had vapor, air. They scammed the people on kick starter into thinking they were funding a proven design, then brought something that will not work well to accurately detect rem, from other light sleep light awake brainwaves. In the end all they did was spent the kickstarter money to get the zeo electrode pads, and design. I Guarantee anyone with a zeo could probably buy iwinks replacement pads and they will probably fit right on and work with the zeo's.
      Last edited by pointofbeing; 03-11-2015 at 11:28 AM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by pointofbeing View Post
      I Guarantee anyone with a zeo could probably buy iwinks replacement pads and they will probably fit right on and work with the zeo's.
      If you compare these two photos then the terminal layouts are actually different, however the design is basically the same, so there could be an infringement issue.

      Aurora headband and pcb

      3-terminal Isosceles triangle layout.


      Zeo Sleep Manager headband

      3-terminal Right-angled triangle layout.


      Therefore judging by the current photographs then the Aurora and Zeo electrode pads would be incompatible, providing that is iwinks don't decide to change the design again.

      Plus the iwinks team never told the backers that they intended to use disposable electrodes until it was far too late which is a bit misleading at best. Even then they were very evasive about it, especially considering as the fabric electrodes will have to be replaced periodically which will incur extra costs.
      Last edited by Highlander; 03-11-2015 at 01:59 PM.
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      Well one thing's clear that I agree with, they had vapor to start with, or they wouldn't have needed so many "redesigns"

      On another note, my remee is starting to flake out, I hope it's just a case of low battery, but when I adjusted it the other night, the notifications started firing right away, and now it's behaving like its powering on every few minutes. So not only must we be concerned about these devices working at all for their intended purpose, we have to worry about them breaking after less than a year of use.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
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      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

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      "If you compare these two photos then the terminal layouts are actually different"

      I just noticed that! It's just ever so slightly different enough to make it more expensive to prove your case in court, and with the company (zeo) completely defunct they are assuming they wont even try. And they are more than likely right. Take a look at the original aurora design it's so flat in its band that no circuit board could ever fit behind it. It also doesn't help that the original electrodes don't look like any available electrodes. I got to assume they took the money to make the company they apparently already had formed. I'm also guessing they brought zeo's off ebay and figured out how to move the one terminal slightly. Hey watch out IAmCoder, they will more than likely steal your Lucid Scribe freeware app change a few thing's and call it their long developed rem detection app. XD Better call Saul.
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      Yeah, I asked them over a year ago for a simple sleep log recorded from their device. I would have been happy with a log recorded from Lucid Scribe! If their sensor was built buy NeuroSky, it should have done so out of the box...

      You'd think that if they were able to detect REM and induce lucidity at unprecedented levels, they would have been able to record a sleep log before that and have enough of them floating around to spare one for me...

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      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      On the (hopefully) plus side, isn't the ZEO well-regarded? Maybe going with a known-good design was better for them. I really don't care where the design comes from, I just want it to work well.
      True, I just hope the choice to follow in their footsteps wasn't the results of A.) laziness/incompetence, or B.) iWinks simply wanting a steady revenue stream from it's client base.

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      I'm not an Aurora backer, so I really couldn't care less about the "how they did it" or "who (if) they stole it from," etc. I just want a device that works. But if it's going to be $299 retail, it better be absolutely amazing. Frankly, I'm not holding my breath (haha, see my signature).
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
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      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

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