Vitamin B-6

[Scoaus]

I know theres probably a million plus threads, but I haven't been able to scope out some of this information.. so: Whats the recommended dosage? I bought 50mg pills and it says take one a day with food. Would you recommended 50mg or should I take two and get 100mg? I've heard you should take Tryptophan (T) with it in order to help with it's effectiveness. I don't have any on hand, and I realize you can get it in natural food products. How much T would you recommend someone consumes? Is a glass of milk and a handful of pistachios high enough in T? I tried the WBTB with apple juice last night and it didn't work, so I'm a little skeptic.

[BatteryCharged]

I tried some melatonin w/ B6 and my brain almost exploded. Huge amount of stress. I slept but woke up stressed.

[cooleymd]

Tryptophan is converted into 5-hydroxytryptophan (5HTP) which can then be converted into 5-hydroxytryptamine (Serotonin or 5HT). Tryptophan hydroxylase catalyzes the first step and it is the rate-limiting step. B-6 is a cofactor in the second step. So if you take Tryptophan and B-6 the Tryptophan is slowly converted into 5HTP in your gut, and then because of the B-6 quickly converted into Serotonin which will then activate your intestines and make you feel sick (think of it as anti-immodium). A better combination is to take 5HTP early (maybe 100mg or 200mg), because it will cross the blood brain barrier (tryptophan doesn't cross as easily, and serotonin can't cross at all), once it is in your brain (when you wake up after sleeping like 3hrs (it should have made you sleepy)) you latter take the B-6 (maybe 100mg or so). This will trap Serotonin in your brain at high levels and should increase vividness in your dreams. B-6 should also increase recall. I combine with Melatonin 5mg fast acting + 5mg slow release (10mg total dose pills) like one+ per 90 minute cycle (mine have 10mg B-6 as well tho so don't overdose on B-6 in me it causes muscle twitch). I never get headaches (ever) and I only have two side effects from Melatonin at any level (even mega mega dose) and that is crying, it just makes you sad and insomnia (from high dose, but If I get to sleep it increases my odds I would say about 6X to trigger it also enhances vividness and weirdness) Sometimes I also add DHEA to increase weirdness (tho I have had a few weird lame lucid dreams with it) long term side effects might not be good. Even with all this I only ever seem to trigger on weekends and only on the last cycle. My advice skip tryptophan go with 5HTP and never mix it with B-6 at the same time take them sequentially. Also I don't megadose on Melatonin all at once (that is stupid because it has a short half life, and then your dose will be high at the beginning of the night when dreams are best at the end (and that is when I trigger) so I take 5+5 or 10+10 fast/slow release every 90 mintues all night long. (but then again I wake after every cycle) This way my does is ramping up for about 5 cycles just when I am most likely to trigger (again assuming I can get to sleep on 50-100Mg total ingested Melatonin) [you should probably start slow like just 5 at a time slow release only at last cycle, then only last two, then last three etc, or 5+5 at each backwards build up] [don't try this if you are a female it will mess up your menstrual cycle]

[FOATL]

My advice skip tryptophan go with 5HTP and never mix it with B-6 at the same time take them sequentially. yep....works like a charm......

[Scoaus]

Thanks all! So i've got a question.. I did take b-6 in 100mg last night as I did find 100mg capsules in my medicine cabinet. I did remember two VERY short dreams.. which is a bonus since I never remember any. They both happened right before I woke up, and I'm guessing one happened after the other??? or something like that. Maybe they were two fragments of a dream. The first dream I remembered was having to clean up some mess I made and it was taking forever. The second was me breaking my camera. Somewhere in-between that I had a 10second fragment of someone cooking. So I'm not sure if they were related.. but they seem like boring dreams. Are you guys suggesting I skip out on the B-6 at night and take 5-HTP, and if I do happen to wakeup, then take it? Thank you.

[cooleymd]

take 5-HTP, and if I do happen to wakeup, then take it? Thank you. if you take 5HTP a bit before you go to sleep, it will affect your cycles basically it will make it so that when you go into sleep you stay in deep sleep for 2 cycles or like 3 hours maybe even 4.5 hours, during this time you will have basically skipped light sleep (and REM), and you will likely wake up early feeling very rested, you might even have trouble getting back to sleep, but take the B6 and try then you will continue to cycle and your REM will last longer, because you missed it along with the light sleep earlier. You can only hope to remember more of it if its non-lucid, but if its lucid it might last longer you would still need to stay lucid and keep from waking your self up tho. So don't forget to stabilize every so often if it works. The other effect will be that your dream will seem clearer because all of that 5HTP will be converted into Serotonin (hopefully in your brain) and it generally makes you more aware and focused. The dream may seem just like reality, with reflections on glass, glare from light and such. The fact that is should be clearer, and longer and the B-6 should at least give you some better recall

[Scoaus]

if you take 5HTP a bit before you go to sleep, it will affect your cycles basically it will make it so that when you go into sleep you stay in deep sleep for 2 cycles or like 3 hours maybe even 4.5 hours, during this time you will have basically skipped light sleep (and REM), and you will likely wake up early feeling very rested, you might even have trouble getting back to sleep, but take the B6 and try then you will continue to cycle and your REM will last longer, because you missed it along with the light sleep earlier. You can only hope to remember more of it if its non-lucid, but if its lucid it might last longer you would still need to stay lucid and keep from waking your self up tho. So don't forget to stabilize every so often if it works. The other effect will be that your dream will seem clearer because all of that 5HTP will be converted into Serotonin (hopefully in your brain) and it generally makes you more aware and focused. The dream may seem just like reality, with reflections on glass, glare from light and such. The fact that is should be clearer, and longer and the B-6 should at least give you some better recall Ah ok! Thank you. I was reading an article about it and the dangers.. is it unsafe?? Someone said it was for depression and appetite suppression, but i'm guessing neither are a problem since I shouldn't be THAT hungry before bed. The B-6 did work, I mean, I did remember two dreams.. they just weren't long... but will the 5-HTP help with that? Will my dreams get longer the longer I take b-6 (obviously not everyday as I know the harmful effects of B6) ?

[cooleymd]

5HTP and Trypthophan have both been linked to contamination in the past, the contamination apparently came from some synthetic japanese company. You want to read the words 'from seeds or extract of' 'Griffonia Simplicifolia'. Trypthophan is an amino acid that you must eat to live, because you can't make it. Your body can only make Serotonin from 5HTP that it makes from Trypthophan You are just helping it out. So in terms of long term safety it is good, but Serotonin is one of the biggest things that are involved with depression. And depression and mood elevators are the biggest cause of sudden suicide in people with suicidal ideation. Basically many depressed people are to lazy to kill themselves, then they decide why not take 200mg of 5HTP before each meal then I'll get thinner and my mood will go up. They suddenly find themselves motivated and decide to climb to the top of a parking garage, then they decided 'klingon style' "today is a good day to die" and they jump. This is a problem with anything that treats depression, especially anything that raises Serotonin. So if you find yourself wanting to use the 'Jump' RC test, look for a gentle slope, not a parking garage. dose for appetite suppression is usually 200mg 3X a day dose for mood stabilization is a few hundred mg per day I usually carry some to work and take it at like 5:30 PM, (I carefully avoid throwing myself in front of the light rail train) then after the ride home I go to sleep at like 8:00+ so then it is ok to use Melatonin with B6 in it. Otherwise If I take it at like 7:30 after getting home, then I wait until I wake up at 11:00+ to take any B6

[Scoaus]

Ah that makes sense, thank you! I'll look for some on Monday (I work across the street from a grocery store with a medium sized pharmacy on the inside). The B6 worked and did give me better dream recall - but my dreams were horribly boring and not near exciting. I'll probably end up doing a WBTB and try to record any dreams. I also ordered some of that dream herb online before I bought the b-6 so that'll be coming in any day too. The 5-HTP sounds interesting and something i'll look into adding into the regime, as i'm interested in some better recall. Do you know anything about vitamin b-6? Does it work better after multiple days use? I know there are some warnings against it's long term use though. Thanks again!

[EbbTide000]

Informative thread, Thanx Scoaus (and BatteryCharged and cooleymd and FOATL) Ama gunna take a couple a multi B's tonight, cos I got some. I found this newspaper article, here's a bit of it: In the study twelve university students were given varying amounts of the vitamin over a period of 5 days Four participants were given 100 milligrams, four were given 250 milligrams, while the remaining students were given a placebo.* The participants who were given the biggest dose of the B-6 had a higher rate of dream salience as determined by vividness, bizareness, emotionality, and colour. It is believed that the vitamin has this effect because it converts amino acids into serotonin, which wakes the brain up during Rapid Eye Movement sleep, a stage of sleeping where our dreams are most vivid.* But hold back on those bananas as too much of the vitamin can mean you won’t get to sleep at all as it can cause insomnia, as well as heart palpitations, cramps, high blood pressure, and panic attacks. While this study into dreams was just preliminary, supplements of B-6 have been given to treat nausea and vomiting in the early stages of pregnancy for decades.* *** Want to remember all your dreams? Start taking vitamin B-6 (or eat lots of bananas) | Daily Mail Online ***

[Scoaus]

Informative thread, Thanx Scoaus (and BatteryCharged and cooleymd and FOATL) Ama gunna take a couple a multi B's tonight, cos I got some. I found this newspaper article, here's a bit of it: In the study twelve university students were given varying amounts of the vitamin over a period of 5 days Four participants were given 100 milligrams, four were given 250 milligrams, while the remaining students were given a placebo.* The participants who were given the biggest dose of the B-6 had a higher rate of dream salience as determined by vividness, bizareness, emotionality, and colour. It is believed that the vitamin has this effect because it converts amino acids into serotonin, which wakes the brain up during Rapid Eye Movement sleep, a stage of sleeping where our dreams are most vivid.* But hold back on those bananas as too much of the vitamin can mean you won’t get to sleep at all as it can cause insomnia, as well as heart palpitations, cramps, high blood pressure, and panic attacks. While this study into dreams was just preliminary, supplements of B-6 have been given to treat nausea and vomiting in the early stages of pregnancy for decades.* *** Want to remember all your dreams? Start taking vitamin B-6 (or eat lots of bananas) | Daily Mail Online *** Hey! No problem Thanks to all the posters. I should inform you that the b-6 worked wonderfully. I remembered 4 dreams last night. Generally I'm lucky if I remember any dreams. I've got on for the last year or so without remembering ANY dreams (unless they're super scary). So it worked for me

[cooleymd]

I wouldn't do more than like 2.5 grams a month tho it stays around and can cause nerve damage if you have too much try to do only like 50-150mg per day or something I think I have been taking a bit to much because it is also in my Melatonin pills (so atm I just take them 5mg fast Melatonin+5mg slow Melatonin +10mgB6) (tho I was taking 1-2 100mg B6 sometimes (not always tho) but I take those thru the night so like three to ten Melatonin pills (for 30 to 100mg of B6) (tonight I have layed out 7) btw this morning I triggered 5 times, but I am only counting it as 3.x Lucid dreams because I think I lost the dream and got it back without actually waking up, but I think I might have done a DEILD (need more experience to be sure) I remember my eyes flashing and eventually at least I was back in a very similar dreamscape / scenario In any case my hand came up 5 times and I was always missing fingers, in the last one I demanded clarity now, I should have rubbed my hands together while demanding it, I woke up he he oh well at least a 30 seconds lucid the other 4 combined into like maybe 12 minutes worth total is my guess (of all the lucid bits) I also did eat one sugar free mountain menthol halls at each awakening. The lucids were on like awekening 6.x and 7 (but I was also semi lucid on 5 I told myself I was dreaming and then decided I wasn't then woke up, stupidly this should have been the easiest one to detect the others had no specific trigger)

[Scoaus]

How much do you take of 5-HTP? I saw 100mg capsules at the pharmacy

[cooleymd]

How much do you take of 5-HTP? I saw 100mg capsules at the pharmacy Sometimes I take 100 sometimes 200, makes me sleep for like 3 to 4.5 hours and little or no dreams, latter the dreams are longer and clearer tho. It also makes you more likely to become aware (it gives you focus), but it also makes you more likely to wake up (anti-stabilizing) and can make it harder to get back to sleep for another cycle. With 200mg and some deep sleep if you then take some B6 and get back to sleep you will awake from a vivid dream with decent to good recall. Try various amounts, but I wouldn't over do it with the B6 and never take them together, it will keep the 5HTP from getting to your brain Seratonin can't get in and B6 helps catalyze the conversion of 5HTP to Seretonin. If Seretonin builds up in your gut you will have discovered the formula for anti-immodium so if you do take them together... keep a toliet handy

[Scoaus]

Ah thank you! And does it actually cause weight loss? I've heard it suppresses appetite but as someone who has always tried to gain weight the last thing I want to do is start losing more. OH - and the suicide issues, is it a serious problem when taking it, or is it something that those who are prescribed 5-HTP by their physician (for depression) should worry about?

[cooleymd]

sources say: Avoid in patients with suicidal thoughts, based on suicide attempts following 5-HTP use. I don't think its a big problem in normal people, but remember that Melatonin can cause depression In depressed people it could be an issue.

[Scoaus]

sources say: Avoid in patients with suicidal thoughts, based on suicide attempts following 5-HTP use. I don't think its a big problem in normal people, but remember that Melatonin can cause depression In depressed people it could be an issue. Ah ok thanks! No worry for me then. Another quick q: how much mg is safe to take? It doesn't really say based on weight so I'm assuming the 100mg I bought is OK?

[cooleymd]

Let see if my Profile pic and signature show up now

[BatteryCharged]

Informative thread, Thanx Scoaus (and BatteryCharged and cooleymd and FOATL) Ama gunna take a couple a multi B's tonight, cos I got some. I found this newspaper article, here's a bit of it:*** I took B6 alone last night because this thread pushed me to try it again and I bought it for $6 or whatever so may as well use it. I had good results, not extraordinary, but on average it was a pretty good dream night. Plenty of recall. My issue was using melatonin w/ B6. It created a huge amount of stress in my head. It was weird because I was tired but it was hard sleeping. I'll never mix them again. I have a question, does anyone do WBTB then take B6 when you wake up rather than right before you sleep? on that B6dreams.com website someone suggested doing that, to juice it during deep REM. I was wondering how fast your body absorbs it that it would act that fast. I typically take it right before sleep and it works fine.

[cooleymd]

does anyone do WBTB then take B6 when you wake up rather than right before you sleep? on that B6dreams.com website someone suggested doing that, to juice it during deep REM. Yes I usually take it now only mixed in my 5mg fast Melatonin + 5mg slow Melatonin + 10mg B6, but when I took them seperately I would do it on first or second awakening and then if a second time on like third or next to last awakening (I often awaken 6 cycles a night) I think this is so because B6 has a long half life and so if you take it you will have some around, but taking a little bit during the night is the effect I am trying for. Just remember that because of its long half life it does have potential for overdose. 100mg now and then might be safe but if you took it everyday for many weeks you might start to get issues with nerves. So now I am not taking it except in my Melatonin. (I'll probably only be taking 40 to 80mg per day most days, but it takes a long time to clear out) here is quote from the web (LivingStrong) "The risk of nerve damage increases with doses of 200 mg per day or more, according to the University of Maryland Medical Center. The risk is greatly increased at doses of 500 to 1,000 mg per day. To reduce the risk of nerve damage, the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine has set a tolerable upper intake level of 100 mg per day. Taking less than 100 mg per day will minimize your risk of developing sensory neuropathy caused by vitamin B-6." One main side effect of Melatonin can be Headache similar to what you describe (but I haven't had a real headache since like 1990 so its not an issue for me) I do get the side effects of Insomnia (which Seretonin from 5HTP can cause as well, but only after some good sleep early on) the only other side effect I get (from Melatonin) is it makes me cry a bit. It can have other side effects tho. But it also has good effects like anti-oxidant.

[Scoaus]

I took B6 alone last night because this thread pushed me to try it again and I bought it for $6 or whatever so may as well use it. I had good results, not extraordinary, but on average it was a pretty good dream night. Plenty of recall. My issue was using melatonin w/ B6. It created a huge amount of stress in my head. It was weird because I was tired but it was hard sleeping. I'll never mix them again. I have a question, does anyone do WBTB then take B6 when you wake up rather than right before you sleep? on that B6dreams.com website someone suggested doing that, to juice it during deep REM. I was wondering how fast your body absorbs it that it would act that fast. I typically take it right before sleep and it works fine. I took b6 once at 4:00am after having taken 5-HTP at around 11pm. Unfortunately, 5-HTP doesn't work for me.. but the b6 did work and I had a highly vivid dream that I knew wasn't fuelled by the 5-HTP. I take it before bed usually though and end up with wild dreams. I guess it works at either time, but the one during my WBTB was actually very.. vivid and long compared to the times I took b-6 before bed. B6 only stays in your body for 4-5 hours and then you pee it out. Your body doesn't have any reserves for it, so it uses what it needs and sends the rest out.. BTW it works best when you take Tryptophan rich foods (meats, nuts, milk!). I wrote a dream journal on B-6 and how to take it and stuff.

[cooleymd]

B6 only stays in your body for 4-5 hours and then you pee it out. Your body doesn't have any reserves for it, so it uses what it needs and sends the rest out.. ______Pyridoxal Kinase B-6 + ATP <---> ADP + pyridoxal 5'-phosphate (P5P) P5P is tighly bound to protein and has a half life of 2-3 weeks Think of it like this, what If I decided to play a trick on you by putting a harmless bucket of water over your door connected to a string. So that when you went out the door the bucket tipped the water gently on your head. Now imagine that it gets freezing cold, and the water forms a 2.5 kg block of ice. You walk out the door and it crushes your skull Just because B-6 is water soluble doesn't mean it has a short half life. If you take 200mg you will be fine. If you take 200mg a day for a long time you likely won't be.

[BatteryCharged]

B6 only stays in your body for 4-5 hours and then you pee it out. Your body doesn't have any reserves for it, so it uses what it needs and sends the rest out.. BTW it works best when you take Tryptophan rich foods (meats, nuts, milk!). I wrote a dream journal on B-6 and how to take it and stuff. It was my understanding that people take the B6 a few hours into sleeping to avoid skipping REM cycles as B6 has the propensity to keep you awake. I took it a 2nd night in a row and my recall was amazing. Pretty sure I journal'd all my dreams. It's amazing when you realize how much dreaming you're forgetting about. I had a full page of details, most detail in a long time. Very vivid and interesting dreams as well. I take 100 mg B6, taking it at bed time. I do get restless at times in the night.

[cooleymd]

I'm not sure if its known how it works for recall, but B6 does help recall. I just awoke and forgot whole dream but then remembered stuff tis only my second cycle tho (after skippin one with 5HTP) I can only remember the last segment of several mintues tho (how did I end up trying to hide on the top floor of the construction site (I may never know)) The B6 I have taken tonight was only 10mg so far in my melatonin I woke up with my sugar free menthol still in my mouth again ate it at 11:30 still between my teeth at 1:10 (dangerous if I choke on it) time for more of each and on to next cycle

[cooleymd]

on to next cycle woohoo 3AM I was lucid not for long tho, then I lost lucidity at the end. leak that made no sense (no lucidity) impossible maze of buildings to reach the person I needed to tell (no lucidity) even tho I went around it several times watching a guy super power back flip over a wall/gate (no lucidity) crossing towards there realizing I was on light rail track seeing train coming around corner at high speed, then running and watching the lead car do a 720 while slamming on its breaks, even tho the other cars all stopped (no lucidity) when a police car with police driver apparently hit his garage door button and opened the gate (no lucidity) realizing that I could jump up the support pillars one by one and then hang from the tiered pagoda style sequential roof overhangs and then get close enough to power back filp myself to get across (no lucidity) but then when I realized I was too heavy and was going to pull down the roof tier, and was trying to do hand by hand hanging from the window segments but they were sliding down because of my weight I jumped back down (partial lucidity) Wait I am dreaming I can just power jump up (LUCIDITY) (Trains and Police are two of my dream signs, not to mention the two impossible events) I didn't have much awareness tho, I still wanted to report the leak, no one would tell me where the guy was, not even someone from my high school, as soon as I saw the guy I needed I woke up (guess I was going with the flow, and had no intention except the dreams intention.. reach the guy no matter what) objective reached ... no more intention ... wake up oh well I'll probably get lucid again to night it was only 3rd cycle 4th if you count the skipped one from the 5HTP (I had suspected I was dreaming just before the leak distracted me, damn leak) I had actually forgotten the whole dream and was thinking what did I dream about, then I remembered I had been lucid for a bit, and it all started rushing back (so the 20mg of B-6 so far tonight aside) it is important to just keep trying for recall, if you don't try your won't necessarily remember, I would hate to have forgotten that swearing cop, the vertical maze of the hanging climb, the impossible back flip, and the Light Rail 720 spin was epic not to mention I forgot I had been lucid. So don't just depened on B6 just lay there and tell yourself, yea I don't remember right now but I know I dreamed something I was going thru a list and when I thought Train? THEN I REMEMBERED