The Danger of Lucidimine and its ingredients

Hey guys, it's been a while since I have posted a new thread on here recently. Just a few days ago, I bought Lucidimine off of Amazon. Lucidimine is a lucid dreaming supplement that is taken at bed time or a few hours into sleep. Anyways, my Lucidimine came in the mail today and it is right next to me at the moment. Upon reviewing its ingredients, I found 4 out of the 5 to be, not so good should I say. Those ingredients are:

-Galantamine(6 mg)
-Alpha-GPC(50 mg)
-CDP Choline(100 mg)
-Choline Bitartrate(100 mg)

At first I was so excited to receive this product. Woohoo! Something that should aid in Lucid dreaming(though I am not all for supplements really). Long story short I left my house to go chill with my friends, and while away, my dad got a hold of the Lucidimine and called our local pharmacist. 10 minutes later I get a call from my dad. "Son, listen to me, Do NOT use this Lucidimine crap, the pharmacist says that it is bad for you."
He went onto to tell me about how all the ingredients I listed above are medicines used solely to help aid Alzheimers patients as they are losing their mind. If you look into ingredients, that is literally their only use next to Lucid Dreaming aid. I feel like I should also mention that Lucidimine is not FDA approved either. On top of that, the list of side effects for Galantamine alone has stunned me in a bad way. Things like loss of appetite or pleasure, throwing up blood, cardiovascular problems, and apparently mental issues are just a few of these side effects. Don't get me wrong, I REALLY wanted to try out Lucidimine, but my dad simply will not let me, and now I have to return a 40 dollar bottle of this stuff. I hope I will get my money back.
My point in all of this guys, is that theres a reason why Galantamine requires a prescription to buy at your local pharmacy. I don't know if the other ingredients are the same way, you'll have to look that up. I created this post as a warning however, to those looking to supplements to aid in Lucid Dreaming. This stuff really isn't as safe as most people make it out to be. Not to mention Galantamine can also change the chemical makeup of your brain. I'd like to hear you guy's thoughts on this. What are your experiences with the ingredients and what are your experiences with Lucidimine itself?

In the end, I'd like to promote all you guys to stay natural. Plus, you never needed supplements to master Lucid Dreaming anyways, it just creates a dependence in a way.

Love,

Master Lucid Dreamer OneUp

Galantamine is a natural product found in Red Spider Lily. It has long tradition of being a medicine.

It protects the brain and utilizes Choline more effectively. There is NOTHING dangerous about it. The dosage for Alzheimer's patients is 32mg a DAY. Our dosage is 8mg~ after WBTB. 2 times a week.

However, to improve quality of sleep it is only taken in a WBTB. You will also want to have more choline because you simply do not have enough. This is not necessary but recommended. Choline is a natural product found in food. There is also nothing dangerous about this. The only product CDP and ALPHA GPC is not found in common foods it is however in an extremely low dose in these pills you mention.

It is true that galantamine has the potential to be affecting neurons. It is not established that it is not a healthy change. In fact, it helps protect the brains of Alzheimer's patients. Any claims that it is harmful in any way is. And dare i say it: BULL-SHIT.

Except under special circumstances, this medication should not be used when the following medical problem exists:
» Known hypersensitivity to galantamine{01}
Risk-benefit should be considered when the following medical problems exist
» Asthma, active or history of (because of the cholinomimetic action of galantamine, caution should be used)

{01}
» Cardiovascular conditions such as{01}
Bradycardia or
Heart block (vagotonic effect on heart may exacerbate pre-existing conditions)


» Epilepsy or history of seizures{01} (galantamine may have some potential to cause generalized convulsions)


» Urinary tract obstruction{01} (may cause bladder outflow obstruction)


» Ulcers, active or history of{01} (increased gastric acid secretion may exacerbate or reactivate condition )


Note: Because of their pharmacological action, cholinesterase inhibitors may be expected to increase gastric acid secretion due to increased cholinergic activity. Therefore, patients should be monitored closely for symptoms of active or occult gastrointestinal bleeding, especially those at increased risk for developing ulcers (e.g. those with a history of ulcer or those receiving concurrent anti-inflammatory drugs [NSAIDs]).{01}







Side/Adverse Effects
The following side/adverse effects have been selected on the basis of their potential clinical significance (possible signs and symptoms in parentheses where appropriate)—not necessarily inclusive:

Those indicating need for medical attention only if they continue or are bothersome
Incidence more frequent

Anorexia (loss of appetite ; weight loss){01}

diarrhea {01}

nausea {01}

vomiting {01}

weight decrease
{01}
Incidence less frequent

Abdominal Pain {01}

anemia (pale skin ; troubled breathing, exertional ; unusual bleeding or bruising ; unusual tiredness or weakness){01}

bradycardia ( slow or irregular heartbeat (less than 50 beats per minute); lightheadedness ; dizziness or fainting ; unusual tiredness )

dizziness {01}

dyspepsia {01}(indigestion)

fatigue ( unusual tiredness or weakness){01}

headache {01}

hematuria (blood in urine ; lower back pain; pain or burning while urinating){01}

insomnia (sleeplessness; trouble sleeping ; unable to sleep){01}

rhinitis (stuffy nose)

somnolence ( sleepiness ; unusual drowsiness){01}

syncope ( high or low blood pressure; dizziness; light-headedness ; feeling faint){01}

tremor {01}












Overdose
For specific information on agents used in the management of galantamine toxicity or overdose, see Atropinein the Anticholinergics/Antispasmodics (Systemic) monograph.
For more information on the management of overdose or unintentional ingestion, contact a poison control center (see Poison Control Center Listing).

Clinical effects of overdose
The following effects have been selected on the basis of their potential clinical significance (possible signs and symptoms in parentheses where appropriate)—not necessarily inclusive:

Bradycardia (slow heart beat ){01}

convulsions and collapse (seizures){01}

defecation {01}

hypotension ( low blood pressure; dizziness; fainting ){01}

gastrointestinal cramping {01}

increased salivation (drooling ; watering of the mouth){01}

increased sweating {01}

lacrimation ( tearing of the eyes){01}

muscle weakness or fasciculations {01}

respiratory depression (slow or troubled breathing)— increasing muscular weakness may affect respiratory muscles, resulting in death{01}

severe nausea and vomiting {01}

urination {01}


Note: The clinical effects mentioned above are symptoms of cholinergic crisis.{01}

My personal experience with:

• galantamine 4mg-8mg
• alpha-gpc 300-600mg
• choline bitartrate 300-600mg

taken alone or in combination is that they can cause insomnia (from a very active, alert mental state), and perhaps a slight bit of a "hangover" effect in the morning, perhaps due to lack of sleep. And, of course, some really astounding dreams on those occasions where I made it back to sleep.

In general, it's good to be very skeptical/suspicious about supplements. Messing with brain chemistry is not to be taken lightly. The advice is *always* to start with very low doses of individual substances before moving to larger doses and combinations (which is why those "all-in-one" pills are less than ideal: you only get the combination right from the start).

But the fact that galantamine is only "mainly" used to treat alzheimer's in America is not a reason not to use it, it will not *cause* Alzheimer's, it boosts brain function. And if you read reviews on Amazon, people note that various forms of choline also helps mental function.

I think that the natural route for LD practice is certainly the best. And for teens, avoiding high doses of supplements (and all drugs) is also a good idea. But when you're an adult you can review the research yourself and make your own decision.

Why young people want to dive in so fast when they have so many years (decades) ahead of them with youthful, flexible, growing brains, for natural practice, is perplexing. For us old geezers with crunchy brains and many fewer years on the horizon, I can understand the urgency :).

Seriously, if you just went all out on meditation and mindfulness for 5 years or so (+ dream recall effort), you'd be an amazingly accomplished LDer without needing any supplements.

The time will pass anyway: wouldn't you rather have it pass with building your LDing ability higher and higher ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dthoughts

Galantamine is a natural product found in Red Spider Lily. It has long tradition of being a medicine.

It protects the brain and utilizes Choline more effectively. There is NOTHING dangerous about it. The dosage for Alzheimer's patients is 32mg a DAY. Our dosage is 8mg~ after WBTB. 2 times a week.

However, to improve quality of sleep it is only taken in a WBTB. You will also want to have more choline because you simply do not have enough. This is not necessary but recommended. Choline is a natural product found in food. There is also nothing dangerous about this. The only product CDP and ALPHA GPC is not found in common foods it is however in an extremely low dose in these pills you mention.

It is true that galantamine has the potential to be affecting neurons. It is not established that it is not a healthy change. In fact, it helps protect the brains of Alzheimer's patients. Any claims that it is harmful in any way is. And dare i say it: BULL-SHIT.

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Haha I am actually glad someone spoke up about this. I was thinking the same things as you Dthoughts. I have decided to just keep the Lucidimine secretly and will be giving it a try tonight. Thanks for your input man.

I am actually a pharmacist, which is why my first response was to list the facts. The most important thing I listed was who should not take it:
» Asthma,
» Cardiovascular conditions such as Bradycardia or Heart block
» Epilepsy or history of seizures
» Urinary tract obstruction
» active or history of Ulcers,


I would recommend that anyone with those issues NOT take it.


Next I listed possible side effects. It is good to know what could happen. The most common are :
Anorexia (loss of appetite ; weight loss){01}
diarrhea {01}
nausea {01}
vomiting {01}

So, I would further recommend anyone who has had trouble with anorexia NOT take this. The other 3 common side effects are sort of like what you would get with a stomach virus, and not the end of the world.

Note, that possible side effect does not mean these things will happen to most users, just that they DO happen to some.

I listed overdose to point out that this IS something you can take too much of. So I hope no one starts trying higher doses to see if that will work better.



Finally, there is no reporting in any medical studies of lucid dreams (I can actually look that stuff up) but what was found was reporting of nightmares and disturbed sleep. Maybe someone got the idea that if it causes nightmares (that was at 24mg dose) it must be causing a change in how we dream. Maybe that is true, but it does not point me towards a connection with lucid dreaming.



I would like to know if any regular lucid dreamer on this forum, has had first hand experience with getting more lucid dreams while taking this? I mean someone who gets lucid dreams often enough with out this, but feels they clearly get more with it.



I am not saying that supplements do or do not work, but I have never used any myself. I am not opposed to the idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sivason

I would like to know if any regular lucid dreamer on this forum, has had first hand experience with getting more lucid dreams while taking this? I mean someone who gets lucid dreams often enough with out this, but feels they clearly get more with it.
I am not saying that supplements do or do not work, but I have never used any myself. I am not opposed to the idea.

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*Raises hand*. Oh, yeah, big time[*]. Multiple per night when I make it back to sleep. I'm not 100% sure but I think perhaps I've almost never had multiple LDs per night without galantamine. Crazy FA transitions. The effect is undeniable IMO.

[*] well, I think so. On the one hand, with all the time (hours and hours) spent awake thinking about dreaming after taking the supplements, there is always the possibility that it was the (effectively) massive WBTB and hours-long MILD/WILD session that resulted in the amazing dreams. But since I *have* managed to get back to sleep a few times and had the same crazy ride, I'm siding with the effect of the supplements.

As always, the lucidity is up to you. But the dreams are ultra-vivid, ultra-present. As Sageous says, sometimes the dreams are just so darned interesting that you forget to get lucid.

Galantamine (8 mg) is hit and miss for me - echoing Fryingmans experience: if I fall back asleep, lucidity is virtually guaranteed, and vivid dreams definitely are. But often I will not fall back asleep. My succes rate is actually not very high with galantamine, because it tends to prevent me from sleeping, so I don't use it very often anymore.

Choline in all its forms is probably always harmless, if taken in smaller doses. But there have been many reports about people getting aches, particularly in the neck area, if ingesting large amounts. Bear in mind, that eggs contain a lot of choline, and so does lecithin, which many (especially elderly) people eat spoonfuls of every day. To the best of my knowledge, choline sources have no dangerous side effects (at least at moderate doses).

Choline seems to do little to nothing for me.

Quote:

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I am actually a pharmacist, which is why my first response was to list the facts.

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Wow, then I really appreciate your take on this sivason. Always nice to have an actual source to go off of. I haven't had any history of the things you mentioned, so I should be good. I'm not sure why my pharmacist freaked out so much over this stuff. Anyways, I definitely don't plan on using this stuff everynight. Maybe only on special occasions or once every week or 2 weeks. I'll report back tomorrow with some results.

I think I should ask you, since I'm only 17, is it okay for me to be trying this out? Or am I considered too young?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OneUp

Wow, then I really appreciate your take on this sivason. Always nice to have an actual source to go off of. I haven't had any history of the things you mentioned, so I should be good. I'm not sure why my pharmacist freaked out so much over this stuff. Anyways, I definitely don't plan on using this stuff everynight. Maybe only on special occasions or once every week or 2 weeks. I'll report back tomorrow with some results.

I think I should ask you, since I'm only 17, is it okay for me to be trying this out? Or am I considered too young?

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Of course, as a pharmacist I am not about to go on record telling you it is ok to take this. I can just give facts. This product is not intended for youths or adolescents. It is hard to say who is an adolescent. It means between teen and developing into an adult, but not yet done becoming an adult. I assume this restriction is because it has effects on brain chemistry and they did no research in those groups, as this product is for old people. Does it mean it is unsafe? It means they have not confirmed it is safe. It is up to you to decide how close to an adult you think your body is, and how stable your brain chemistry tends to be. If you are already having issues with mood or other mental things, then you should be even more cautious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sivason

Of course, as a pharmacist I am not about to go on record telling you it is ok to take this. I can just give facts. This product is not intended for youths or adolescents. It is hard to say who is an adolescent. It means between teen and developing into an adult, but not yet done becoming an adult. I assume this restriction is because it has effects on brain chemistry and they did no research in those groups, as this product is for old people. Does it mean it is unsafe? It means they have not confirmed it is safe. It is up to you to decide how close to an adult you think your body is, and how stable your brain chemistry tends to be. If you are already having issues with mood or other mental things, then you should be even more cautious.

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Aright thanks for the advice. I will probably try it just once just to see its effects, but thats it for now then. I feel that I am mentally stable as I do not have mood issues or other mental things, plus I am always positive towards everything and I don't let little things bother me. However, I am still not going to accept this drug into everyday use or once a week use either since it can affect brain chemistry.

Like most parents, it sounds like your father adopted the philosophy of "Why react, when I can over-react." The components of the Lucidimine you cite are not dangerous, alone or in combination. Just don't take it more often or in quantities greater than recommended. FWIW, the dosages necessary to treat Alzheimer's Disease are FAR greater than those contained in that product. The only difference between a medication and a poison is the dosage. Too much oxygen...you die. Too much water...you die.

I have no connection to the purveyors of Lucidimine, but there's one thing I do know from spending 63 years on this planet. 99.999% of things people worry about harming them - don't - so long as they're taken in the recommended quantities. That having been said, the risk/benefit ratio is pretty high if (and that's a big IF) all you are getting out of it is the occasional extra LD.

Just one more piece of silliness I want to try and dispell: "Galantamine changes your brain chemistry." LOL! So does pretty much everything you eat and drink. Cola, tea, coffee, chocolate, (cafeine), turkey (tryptophan), and on and on and on...the list is literally ENDLESS.



DH

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoubleHelix

Just one more piece of silliness I want to try and dispell: "Galantamine changes your brain chemistry." LOL! So does pretty much everything you eat and drink. Cola, tea, coffee, chocolate, (cafeine), turkey (tryptophan), and on and on and on...the list is literally ENDLESS.



DH

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In this case, that is not a very accurate statement. That is kind of like saying if caffeine gives a high, then it is equivalent to heroin.

This drug specifically prevents the breakdown of one of the five major neurotransmitters, putting it on a level more equivalent with anti-depressants and drugs for Parkinson's than turkey.

that's why the use of Piracetam is often recommended after a Galantamine intake.
the extra AcetylCholine doesn't really disappear from the system but is used for memory (as I understand it).

Anyway I wouldn't recommend G for young people.

Quote:

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I would like to know if any regular lucid dreamer on this forum, has had first hand experience with getting more lucid dreams while taking this? I mean someone who gets lucid dreams often enough with out this, but feels they clearly get more with it.

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In my experience, Galantamine has significantly improved my ability to have lucid dreams, and in particular, to WILD. I have only taken it four times (3x 8mg and 1x 4mg), but on all nights I took Galantamine, I experienced multiple lucid dreams, as well as an increased ability to WILD. I also was able to attain lucidity with very little induction, and on some nights, no induction at all. I also did not need to use an anchor to achieve WILD.