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I have bought some Hup A and some nicotine "pills" that you suck on. I will take them wbtb. Is there any other supplement I should use to get the best probability of getting lucid? I want the highest chance since I don't want to use this combination to often.
Should I add melatonine? (Got that aswell). Choline?
Choline seems like a good addition to the combo.
Let us know about the results. How often do you plan on supplementing these?
So these AchE (acetycholierase enzyme ) inhibitors don't really make you lucid per se, but make your dreams a little more vivid. If your dreams are already vivid, they really don't do much. They basically stop the enzymes that breaks apart acetyl choline, so you don't need to take other AchE Inhibitors at the same time.
Also, one type of AchE inhibitors (there's short acting and long acting) from what I read up on some research papers, I forget which, lowers your ability to utilize choline in the long term. Which hurts both your recall and dream clarity. I forget which one Hup A was but, you might already know this though.
People recommend taking melatonin before bed. Apparently it increases SWS sleep so you get more REM later in the night. So if you're gonna take melatonin, take it before you go to sleep, then take your Hup A combo.
Ok so I forgot to add but, taking choline will probably help but don't take too much, you might have trouble sleeping.
I will. 1-2 times per week. Probably 2 times in the beginning to try out the best dosages and combination. A bit worried about choline; se below.Quote:
Originally Posted by NyxCC
Thanks. I'm a bit worried about taking choline to the combo though because I'v read it could be to much acethylcholine in the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenLD
Im following the tips of some researcher who gets good results with nicotine + huperzine a.
If you find more information about which acethylchonlinesterase can lower your choline uptake ability please let me know.
I'v decided I will also experiment with combinations of vitamin B6, omega 3, melatonin, valerian root and l-theanine. I will report my results.
This is my results from the previous night (just taking some stuff i had at home):
1 g omega 3, multivitamin (8.6mg B6). Medium vividness. 5-6 hours of sleep. Stayed up 10 min. Comments: Intense feeling of being drunk.
(I will have to wait 1-2 weeks to try the nicotine + hup a combo)
28/3
Omega 3 1025mg
B6 (25mg)
Nicotine pill (1mg)
Lds: 0
Vividness: Medium
Sleep: 4 hours
Up for: 30 min
Comment: Intense feeling of being drunk, again :). Really hard to sleep, probably due to omega3 och perhaps discontinuation of another medicine.
In my dream I was taking a supplement so I remembered your post!
So are you still on melatonin? I found that if I take melatonin I do get that drowsiness feeling somewhat like what you've described. Or sometimes, you do feel kind of drunk when you are sleep depraved also :D
As for difficulty sleeping, do you take vitamin B6 before bed? When I took B6 before bed before it gave me too much energy and I had trouble sleeping that time. Maybe if you move it to WBTB it can help you.
I take gotu kola. It heals scars and is good for brain. Don't know if it work well for you. You have to take it for a long time though.
Also Lion's mane mushroom. It helps grow new neurons, works really well. It does make you a bit itchy though, because you are growing new things. But I stopped taking it. If you can handle the itchiness, or find good dosage, it works super super well long term.
Don't know if that helps but I hope so :D
Thanks for the tips! Have these substances, Lions, gotu, made it easier to lucid dream or how do they affect you?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenLD
Haven't started melatonin yet actually. The drunkness feeling in the dreams came from omega3, b6 and nicotine.
Yes I've been taking vitamin b6 before bed, that must be it! Took 50mg last night and it was impossible hard to get to sleep. I will move it to wbtb!
29/3
Peppermint tea (before)
Green tea (before)
Lds: 0
Recall: Low
Couldn’t remember anything
Quote:
Originally Posted by novis
I have also used the nicotine mini lozenges, Nicorette 2 mg with Galantamine, Choline, and Alpha GPC. Used maybe 5 times. Almost every time I had very weird dreams, lucidity and very strong OBE type stuff, like forcefully feeling thrusted out of body before the dream. Once I took 2 nicotine lozenges, ....bad idea, got really nauseated and vomiting.
I would avoid ever taking them together unless you want to experience some seriously uncomfortable physical side effects (as well as unpleasant mental ones too, but the physical ones will probably overwhelm them).
Idk if you're aware of all the potential side-effects, but I'll list some for you based on personal experience and knowledge I've studied up on in the past. Taking too much of either, both together, or especially too much of both together can lead to highly unpleasant effects like potentially extreme muscle cramping and tremors, muscle tightness and tension, convulsions, profuse sweating, salivation, the need to urinate/defecate, diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, potentially debilitating headaches, increased tear production, hot and cold flashes, malaise/depression, anxiety, and on the more extreme end, delusions, paranoia, and hallucinations.
Just be careful with how you experiment with these two substances. Keep in mind that nerve agents like the kinds used as biochemical weapons as well as the neurotoxins in lethal venoms that are known for causing extremely painful death full of suffering function in essentially a more potent and extreme fashion otherwise identical to these types of drugs.
Have you tried huperzine A and nicotine together? Do you think 1mg nicontine + 100mcg or 200mcg Huperzine A can cause serious side effects? Can you give me a link on where you have read this?Quote:
Originally Posted by snoop
I though it would be fine since this scientist was experimenting with both in doses of 200mcg Hup A and 7mg nicotine patch:
http://www.bluesilk.com.au/lucidmind...case_study.pdf
I have not been able to find anything about that you shouldn't mix those two. I have read some posts and studies (above) where people use hup A + nicotine or galantamine + nicotine without serious side effects. But maybe im missing something.
As long as the dose for both is appropriate it is fine, I was just trying to give you some warning because the side effects of taking too much of a cholinergic(s) are some the most unpleasant in my experience.
I can't respond too easily about taking 1mg nicotine because the only form of nicotine I ever use is from smoking tobacco, which complicates things for a number of reasons. First and foremost, the amount of nicotine per cigarette varies some based on the company that makes them, and cigarettes usually contain something like 10-12mg nicotine iirc because a fair amount of it either gets destroyed in the process of the tobacco being burned or something with bio-availability (how much of it is able to be absorbed via whatever route of administration), I don't remember which. It usually winds up being that somewhere between 0.7mg and 2mg of nicotine is absorbed per cigarette. The size of the hit that's taken as well as how long it is held in the lungs are also factors in how much gets absorbed. Most prominently, however, tobacco contains a few alkaloids (a couple of Harmala alkaloids and iirc a beta-carboline as well) that act as short-acting reversible MAO Inhibitors; MAOIs not only significantly potentiate (intensify) nicotine's effects, but prevent the breakdown and therefore increase the amount of a number of neurotransmitters like dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine/noradrenaline, and epinephrine/adrenaline as well.
That said, I would imagine 1mg nicotine + 100 or 200mcg Hup A wouldn't likely produce any significantly unpleasant side-effects unless you happen to be sensitive to either substance. Just be sure and start lower and try experimenting with stepping things up. Cholinergics unfortunately have a pretty sudden threshold where unpleasant side effects are experienced.
I appreciate the warning; I will start slow. I'll probably start with 100mcg Hup A alone (smallest unit I have) and then combine, or maybe I can divide the pill? I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by snoop
So what kind of cholinergic substances have you used and what problems did you get? And dosages?
Thanks for starting this thread, novis! I also bought some Hup A recently. Rather than taking it orally, I'm mainly planning on using it in the form of a transdermal gel to be applied to the skin. The idea is to provide a more constant, longer lasting blood-concentration compared to taking it orally. Probably will combine it with nicotine (gum or patch) and theanine. Possibly also choline, as suggested by NyxCC and ZenLD.
Nice! I have just started with Hup A. Ill only do it once a week though and this first time was Hup alone. Though, I think Hup A alone actually decreased my recall and had no other effect... Next time Ill do Hup A + nicotine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zthread
Start off slow with the added choline I would say.
Report back as you try :)
Good idea to limit it to once a week, because desensitization is always a potential problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by novis
I've heard from other people that it's really best to combine it with nicotine.Quote:
Originally Posted by novis
Yes. At first, I won't even add any choline.Quote:
Originally Posted by novis
Will do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by novis
Started making my first batch of transdermal huperzine A (H). Crushed a single 200 microgram H tablet and mixed it with 3 teaspoons of ethanol (i.e., Everclear) in a small glass. (Did an online search to make sure H is soluble in ethanol.) Now waiting for the insoluble components of the H tablet to settle out, so I can siphon off the H dissolved in ethanol. Then will mix in some aloe vera and let the ethanol evaporate. (The purpose of the aloe vera is to increase the permeability of the skin, making it easier for the H to pass through it and enter the bloodstream.)
Can you be sure all the ethanol has evaporated?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zthread
Good question. Can't be completely sure. But it doesn't really matter. In fact, it might actually be helpful to leave some ethanol (AKA grain alcohol) in the mix, because ethanol is known to increase the permeability of the skin. It's used for that purpose in many commercially available transdermal patches.Quote:
Originally Posted by novis
On another thread in this forum, sivason posted the following regarding transdermal supplements:
I've read the first paper mentioned in that post: Formulation and Evaluation of Galantamine Gel as Drug Reservoir in Transdermal Patch Delivery System, by Woo Fong Yen et al. Looks like the authors found that propylene glycol works well with galantamine as a skin-permeation enhancer:Quote:
Here is an article that goes into great detail on various formulations they used, and decided the principle is sound, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4374332/
This one gets you up to date on transdermal advances for this kind of med. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5497436/
The short version seems to be, yes it will absorb through skin. The results seem good and a steady slow release can be achieved. The optimum formulation so far delivers 80% of the medication over 24 hours. So, if the gel contained 10 mg then 8 mg would be spread out over 24 hours, or roughly 2.6 mg over 8 hours. That is the best formulation so far. Anything you do at home is likely to be less.
In general, most simple gels will only get 10% of the drug into your blood over 8 hours, but the characteristics of the drug change that. It sounds like galantamine absorbs pretty well. My best guess is to assume 20% of your drug might be absorbed the way you are doing it. For starters I would use twice the dose you would take orally, and see how that goes. You probably need to wash the area with alcohol in the morning so you are not absorbing it all day too. Going up in strength until you get the dose you want based on results, you will likely end up finding out that almost 20 mg will be needed, but do not jump to that high of a level before trying 8 mg.
Disclaimer: This info is for theoretical educational purpose only. I do not encourage anyone to rely on my opinion when ingesting chemicals. Do so at your own risk. Good luck. If the raw chemical is not too expensive it could be a good project. Note: there are dangers involved with galantamine as with any real serious medication. I have never used it and in general think strong drugs like this are best to be avoided.
It might also work well for transdermal Huperzine A. Just ordered some propylene glycol, so I can do some tests.Quote:
3.1.5. Effects of Enhancer Amount on Drug Release. Propylene glycol showed the highest drug release when compared to other penetration enhancers. Figure 5 and Table 2 show the effects of propylene glycol amount (0.00%, 1.00%, 5.00%, and 10.00% w/w) on drug release. There was no significant improvement on drug permeability when the amount of propylene glycol was increased from 0.00% to 1.00% w/w. However, an improvement in drug release percentage was observed when percentage of propylene glycol was increased from 5.00% to 10.00% w/w. The highest drug release percentage was observed with gel which consisted of 10.00% w/w propylene glycol. Santos et al. and Trottet et al. also deduced that propylene glycol content in the formulations is directly proportional to the amount of drug permeated and drug release [19, 20].
The propylene glycol I ordered arrived yesterday. Going to try using it to make some transdermal supplements, starting with transdermal galantamine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zthread