Qualia Mind: long term support vs. short term induction

Some of the most popular LD supplements (Galantamine, Choline, Alpha-GPC) are used short term to help induce a lucid dream 2 or 3 times a week at the most due to desensitization and tolerance issues. But what about using some kind of supplements long term to aid in LDing in general, without having to blast my brain with excessive amounts of ACh on a particular night? What if there were a supplement stack you could take daily that would change a "typical dreamer and/or struggling LDer" into more of a "natural LDer"?

I was looking for things (including food) that can help support the cholinergic system, and ran into this supplement from Neurohacker with 28 ingredients, Qualia Mind; have not seen any threads talking about it. Here they talk in detail about the cholinergic system and here about the stack to support the whole system.

Anybody heard of Qualia Mind?

I hadn't heard of Qualia Mind previously. I'd personally be reluctant to use it regularly because of desensitization and tolerance concerns. For example, it looks like one serving of the stuff has 200 mg of theanine, which is a pretty large dose. Taking that every day, you'd naturally build up tolerance and desensitization to theanine, meaning it would have less effect on you. I'm pretty sure that would reduce the usefulness of theanine for inducing LDs. It also has a 50 micrograms of Huperzine A. That's not a large dose of Huperzine A, but taking it daily could still cause some tolerance build-up and desensitization that could reduce the effectiveness of Huperzine A as an LD supplement. Since it has some similarities in its effects to galantamine, taking Huperzine A daily might also reduce the effectiveness of galantamine.

I understand that what you're saying is that maybe if you took Qualia Mind every day, you'd no longer need to take popular LD supplements (e.g., galantamine) to induce LDs, because the Qualia Mind would turn you into a natural LDer. I suppose that's possible, but I personally think it's pretty unlikely.

I could be wrong, though. Would be interested in hearing other opinions. Have you personally tried Qualia Mind?

"desensitization and tolerance" are big fears and concerns, but how well founded are they? That´s one of the big topics Yushack keeps banging on in his awesome supplements for LD book. His work is so well written and detailed that one automatically jumps to gulp down the Piracetam he recommends after a night of Galantamine/Choline/Alpha-GPC brain blasting LD attempts. Images of acetylcholine receptors withering away plague your mind as you visualize your LD future destroyed by atrophied neurons. Thank you Thomas.

I´m sure he did not just write the warnings off the top of his head, he probably experienced some of the tolerance build up himself, ...but it´s good to think about things and put things into perspective....Galantamine is prescribed in recommended dosages of 16 to 24 mg a day for alzheimer's patients. A quick search on the net yields dozens of clinical trials testing the long-term use and effectiveness of the mighty G with dosages of 24mg a day for a year or more. All with positive results. That´s 168mg every week, for a year, compared to a measley 16mg or less for LDers....10 times more!

If "desensitization and tolerance" were really such an issue and high risk, I think that clinical trials would have long ago reached that conclusion and relegated G to the "another failed med bin".

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I haven´t tried QM yet....but really thinking about it. Maybe the conversion to more of a natural LDer is overreaching, but it might help at least somewhat. And then could still have some nights of G blasting....and early morning Piracetam salvation.

Hey well I don't know about qualia mind but I did quickly look at the ingredients listed in there.

Pros:
There are some herbs like gingko and bacopa and other stuff used traditionally to improve memory long term so that's pretty good. There's also some stuff like foreskolin thats a ngf and that's great for long term use as well.

Cons:
Maybe the b12 is a little too high though? It's got choline and ache-I so maybe don't take too much as that might overload your system(I think you said you wanted to avoid this in your post) . Also it has several stimulants like caffine so maybe you gotta experiment with it so it won't keep you up at night.

Well I'm not an expert but I think things that can give you ngf is probably what you're looking for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fly_by_Night

"desensitization and tolerance" are big fears and concerns, but how well founded are they? That´s one of the big topics Yushack keeps banging on in his awesome supplements for LD book. His work is so well written and detailed that one automatically jumps to gulp down the Piracetam he recommends after a night of Galantamine/Choline/Alpha-GPC brain blasting LD attempts. Images of acetylcholine receptors withering away plague your mind as you visualize your LD future destroyed by atrophied neurons. Thank you Thomas.

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In my experience, virtually every drug or supplement has tolerance and desensitization issues. The effects of alcohol, cannabis, nicotine, caffeine, galantamine, theanine, and melatonin, for example, all are reduced if they're used too often. That's how it works for me, anyway. It might not work that way for everyone. Never tried piracetam, as recommended by Yuschak. Wonder how well that would work. But I am careful not to use various substances that I like, including galantamine, too often.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fly_by_Night

I´m sure he did not just write the warnings off the top of his head, he probably experienced some of the tolerance build up himself, ...but it´s good to think about things and put things into perspective....Galantamine is prescribed in recommended dosages of 16 to 24 mg a day for alzheimer's patients. A quick search on the net yields dozens of clinical trials testing the long-term use and effectiveness of the mighty G with dosages of 24mg a day for a year or more. All with positive results. That´s 168mg every week, for a year, compared to a measley 16mg or less for LDers....10 times more!

If "desensitization and tolerance" were really such an issue and high risk, I think that clinical trials would have long ago reached that conclusion and relegated G to the "another failed med bin".

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Good point! I would guess that significant tolerance and desensitization occur for people taking that much. But it still may have some beneficial effects in spite of that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fly_by_Night

I haven´t tried QM yet....but really thinking about it. Maybe the conversion to more of a natural LDer is overreaching, but it might help at least somewhat. And then could still have some nights of G blasting....and early morning Piracetam salvation.

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Hope it works well for you, if you try it! Would be interested in hearing about your experiences with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZenLD

Hey well I don't know about qualia mind but I did quickly look at the ingredients listed in there.

Pros:
There are some herbs like gingko and bacopa and other stuff used traditionally to improve memory long term so that's pretty good. There's also some stuff like foreskolin thats a ngf and that's great for long term use as well.

Cons:
Maybe the b12 is a little too high though? It's got choline and ache-I so maybe don't take too much as that might overload your system(I think you said you wanted to avoid this in your post) . Also it has several stimulants like caffine so maybe you gotta experiment with it so it won't keep you up at night.

Well I'm not an expert but I think things that can give you ngf is probably what you're looking for.

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What does NGF stand for? Are those good for LDing?

^^
nerve growth factor

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Originally Posted by Zthread

What does NGF stand for? Are those good for LDing?

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Quote:

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^^
nerve growth factor

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Just looked that up on Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerve_growth_factor

It is an important substance:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia.org

Nerve growth factor may contribute to increased longevity and mental capacity.[49] Centenarian Rita Levi-Montalcini took a daily solution in the form of eye drops, and has stated that her brain is more active now than it was four decades ago.[49] In 2014, Sundaravadivel Balasubramanian and coworkers at Medical University of South Carolina showed that NGF level is elevated in people who performed a single 20-minute yoga session involving om-chanting and thirumoolar pranayama, when compared to a control group.[50]

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Would be good to get some of those eye drops. And regularly do yoga and meditation.

The woman who used those eye drops won a Nobel Prize, along with Stanley Cohen, for discovering NGF:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Levi-Montalcini