Kratom as an Oneirogen

Hi dreamers,

Last newyear's eve I went to the smartshop to get some Magic Mushrooms( The truffle variety that's still legal her) and decided to buy and try Kratom resin; A South-East Asian Tree which's leaves are psychoactive. Effects were said to be euphoriant and relaxant. And Stimulant in higher doses.

So the night after Newyear's eve I tried it and felt very nicely relaxed and calm/clear minded. Not a worry in mind. Not a stress in my body.

My mind was notacibly cleared and I wondered if this might make Kratom good as a Lucid Aid.

Now unfortunately Kratom is quite expensive, but I'm willing to buy a stash of it especially for Lucid Dreaming.


Anyone else here who's had experience with Kratom and dreami9ng?
Anyway this is really a Herb that dreamers should look into.

I've never tried Kratom though I have read on the subject. I actually turned a good friend of mine onto it recently, since he likes opiate sort of highs but is subject to drug tests. His impressions where positive, though as you said it's very expensive.

I believe Kratom's effect is actually the opposite of what you mentioned above, and very counter intuitive. At small doses, it has a stimulant effect. At high doses, it's effect is said to be much more opiate like.

It of course dawned on me last summer when my friend and I were discussinig the subject, that small doses might have a positive LD inducing effect.

Generally speaking, stimulants help push the brain to a more lucid or conscious sort of state. There is a lot of discussion on one of the other web sites about caffiene as a lucid aid, and the results are very good.

So in short, never tried. But I have to believe that small doses would be the key. Large doses are supposed to be more like a strong downer high. I don't see how that would help with dreams in general, unless you are expecting a rebound effect. Even there, be careful. The effects of Kratom last upwards of 8 hours if I understand properly.

Dr Tech - Kratom is meant to attach to the opiate receptors. Opiates definitely improve dreaming. There's no question. It happens to everybody who takes them. It's not really a question of just relaxing or stimulating.

Just be careful SKA coz Kratom is still addictive if done too much. Just read the reports on Erowid in the addiction and habituation section. I'm sure you have already, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.
The withdrawal from this herb is supposed to last months, compared to only weeks for most other opiates.

Report back on whether it does anything. Also from what I've read it's
Stimulant - high doses
Relaxant - low doses.
Where did you get your info from Dr Tech? Seems we have conflicting data here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tommo

Dr Tech - Kratom is meant to attach to the opiate receptors. Opiates definitely improve dreaming. There's no question. It happens to everybody who takes them. It's not really a question of just relaxing or stimulating.

Just be careful SKA coz Kratom is still addictive if done too much. Just read the reports on Erowid in the addiction and habituation section. I'm sure you have already, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.
The withdrawal from this herb is supposed to last months, compared to only weeks for most other opiates.

Report back on whether it does anything. Also from what I've read it's
Stimulant - high doses
Relaxant - low doses.
Where did you get your info from Dr Tech? Seems we have conflicting data here.

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A herb that's addictive and can have month long withdrawals? :shock:

Check out:

http://www.sagewisdom.org/kratomguide.html

Sagewisdom is developed by Daniel Siebert who is a well known researcher in the field of natural entheogens. He confirms the stimulant (low dose) and sedative (high dose) behavior. I also just read this on another site, though I won't put the link here as I am not trying to advertise for anyone.

Turns out that chemically, Kratom is similar to yohimbine. It is NOT an opiate, though the effects are sedative like. And yes, it is definately physically addictive.

Yeah it's not an opiate but it does attach to the opioid receptors.
Also even though it's chemically similar to yohimbine, the effects are supposed to be fairly different. It's not so much of a stimulant.

Ok I must have gotten confused about the stimulant/depressant thing. I think I was remembering experience reports and some people overdosed which made them anxious etc. So it's probably stimulant on low dose > depressant on medium to high dose > stimulant on overdose.

How addictive is it actually? Like weed is said to be "addictive"? Or more like Cocaine is addictive?

Well, apparently it's about as addictive as any moderate opiate - oxycodone etc. But the withdrawals aren't as severe, unless you take massive amounts for prolonged periods.
Bare in mind opiates aren't as addictive as you might first think, government propaganda takes place with opiates too. Even with Heroin you can take it for 2 days, being stoned the whole time, and not suffer any withdrawals. It's not like one hit and you're addicted as most people think.

There's been no studies on this herb, but my guess from reading about it would be that after heavy use (5-10 grams a day or so) for two weeks would produce some withdrawals. So it would be best to keep it for maybe once a week or once a fortnight just to be safe.

If you find you start wanting to take it more often, stop all together. That's the best advice because addiction varies from person to person. Some people get addicted to things very quickly, others take a lot longer.

Although the only way you can get addicted is to rely on the drug first. For example if you start wanting to feel like it makes you feel (relaxed, euphoria, everything feels right etc.) more and more often, that's the perfect set for addiction to creep in.

So yeah, probably more like cocaine, as in, actually physically addictive.

Since before my teenages I've been given alot of doctor prescribed medications. Many Benzodiazepines for long periods of time. I stopped taking them 3 years ago. No withdrawal whatsoever.

Hehe man, I was going to say the EXACT same thing, but didn't wanna bring more drugs in to the thread though coz that always ends up putting the thread off the main point.
But yeah since you've done it already, and it's your thread, I also took benzo's for a long time everyday, it was Xanax too which is supposed to be the most addictive, no withdrawal at all.
So yeah that proves some people just don't get addicted easily.

You should be right then. Just don't way over do it coz all opiates and opiate analogues (i.e Kratom, Tramadol etc. - not opiates but bind to opioid receptors) are still addictive, there's no escaping that one.

Basically I wouldn't be doing it every night to LD. It will lose it's effective anyway. Better to do it once a fortnight so it retains it's effects.

oh go away.