Thread: Observations on the nature of dreams from my journals

These are spot on. The only one I can not state that directly is 8. I did have experiences that convince me that dreams are not just fancy but I do still think that most of the time they are not a different realm. Would be curious to hear put experience of learning this 🙂

Originally Posted by Erfeyah

These are spot on. The only one I can not state that directly is 8. I did have experiences that convince me that dreams are not just fancy but I do still think that most of the time they are not a different realm. Would be curious to hear put experience of learning this ��

yeah number 8 would be the most controversial conclusion. I've noticed that it can be a mixture between your own mind, and a real entity sometimes. Rather than black and white one or the other. It's sometimes blurred. You could consider the many reports of people meeting in dreams (shared dreaming) where they saw the same scenery and had a conversation and reported it when they woke. This simply would not be possible if it was all fantasy.

Another thing to consider is when you induce a lucid dream from your bed, think how often the room and house is recreated the minute the experience starts. I always found it starts off in my house nearly 90% of the time. This is like a bleed through affect from the real world imprinting itself. It often very difficult to tell the difference. If you ever tried to talk to someone in the experience, you might find proof from them, that's it's not you.

In terms of describing it as a 'realm' I feel like it is a different realm. I'm not constricted to the same rules. There isn't the same dangers. It's an entirely different 'playing field'. The visual detail and realness leads me to think if it is inside my mind, some of these places, then it's not really any different to it being outside my mind anyway. Eventually you start thinking of the waking world, in a similar way.

I have tried to see if there is any connection to the real world by checking an actual object and then checking if that was there when waking up. It was not. More hilariously sometimes I was not even in the right house that the dream memory had conjured. Then they’re experiments with people that OBE where they put an object at a high selve in the room the OBE occurs and ask the participants to tell them what it is. They don’t know which indicates that OBEs are dreaming.

I am actually open to the idea of there being outside entities during dreaming but I wouldn’t know how to distinguish.

By the way if you have the energy throw a couple of 20 sided dice somewhere high in your room and go and get them while lucid to check if the numbers match reality. That would be fun though you have to repeat many times.

Originally Posted by Erfeyah

I have tried to see if there is any connection to the real world by checking an actual object and then checking if that was there when waking up. It was not. More hilariously sometimes I was not even in the right house that the dream memory had conjured. Then they’re experiments with people that OBE where they put an object at a high selve in the room the OBE occurs and ask the participants to tell them what it is. They don’t know which indicates that OBEs are dreaming.

I am actually open to the idea of there being outside entities during dreaming but I wouldn’t know how to distinguish.

By the way if you have the energy throw a couple of 20 sided dice somewhere high in your room and go and get them while lucid to check if the numbers match reality. That would be fun though you have to repeat many times.

I have done a similar experiment inside my house before with playing cards. Never thought of the dice idea. I put a random one face down on table without looking at it. In my projection I would go to the table and turn over the card. After my projection I turned over the 'real' card to see if it matched the one in my projection. It did not. After I did this a few times it started to sink in that it was a different dimension or realm, that only imitated my house, and that it was not the same thing as my actual house when awake, despite the fact it looked identical sometimes.

I also had the same experience where a window, or a road, or some feature was completely different, and I did not notice it until I was awake again that it was totally different structure. That is like an altered memory experience.

I think it is possible to project into the physical out of your body, But I don't believe I have mastered that type of level yet. It might be because it is super meta. Think about the fact you already in a physical dimension, and you are trying to be outside your body at the same time you trying to match the dimension frequency you are in. It is complex enough when you launch yourself into a astral copy of the room and then your back in your room. Even that is weird and meta. But to do that in the physical world it would basically be teleporting your consciousness in time and space, and a means of travel, which is why I link it to remote viewing.

Edit: I forgot to mention the experiment you describe, it was documented and a success by other people. I have the book right here in my hand, and it is called "the Probability of the impossible" by Dr. Thelma Moss. Chapter 12 page 301 describes a laboratory investigation verified by a technician. She was able to read a 5 digit number during OBE and verify it.

> I have done a similar experiment inside my house before with playing cards. Never thought of the dice idea. I put a random one face down on table without looking at it. In my projection I would go to the table and turn over the card. After my projection I turned over the 'real' card to see if it matched the one in my projection. It did not. After I did this a few times it started to sink in that it was a different dimension or realm, that only imitated my house, and that it was not the same thing as my actual house when awake, despite the fact it looked identical sometimes.

Nice. Only there is the possibility that it simply is not a different dimension but a creation of your own mind. Or it could be that there is the possibility of a different realm but we mostly accessing internal projection for the majority of our time dreaming (which is my current belief). The question is that of the ontological status of the dream world. Does it have independence? Does it have persistence when you are not there? We can imagine something during waking hours. For example I can imagine a dog but that doesn't mean that the imaginary dog has an inner world, consciousness and any kind of persistence. If we are going to claim a realm we need to have ways of checking.

> I think it is possible to project into the physical out of your body, But I don't believe I have mastered that type of level yet. It might be because it is super meta.

Or the belief and its associated assumptions might be faulty. We need to distinguish between information, belief and knowledge or else we can never get anywhere.

> Edit: I forgot to mention the experiment you describe, it was documented and a success by other people. I have the book right here in my hand, and it is called "the Probability of the impossible" by Dr. Thelma Moss. Chapter 12 page 301 describes a laboratory investigation verified by a technician. She was able to read a 5 digit number during OBE and verify it.

So this is information. Good. I have looked no these claims and though I don't reject them out of hand I am also not convinced of their validity or know how to interpret them. So I have adjusted my belief as mentioned above and explore with an open mind. But as they say not too open cause my brain might fall out.. ��

Originally Posted by RockStarHeart

2)There is no mistaking when you are awake. In a dream there is sometimes a doubt that you are not awake. This dynamic can be important for lucidity

In waking, I think about dreaming often. In dreams, I think about dreams almost never, unless I'm lucid or pre-lucid. I always thought this could be an important hook to get lucid more, but alas, it's hard to hook on the absence of something unless you're already aware of it, so catch-22!

6) Just because you are Lucid, Doesn't mean you are fully Lucid. There are degrees of it.

I fully agree with this. There are a number of (usually young, head-strong) outspoken practitioners today who insist "either you know, or you don't." I myself have experienced many different points along the spectrum, so know that, in my experience, they exist.

7) Your conscious mind is rarely in control of the experience. You may be able to fly, or manifest something. But there is always some spanner in the works, some other part of the experience that you are clearly not in control of.

It was Robert Waggoner (I think?) who said "The sailor can steer the ship but doesn't control the sea."