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    1. #1
      Member Lucid Night Flight's Avatar
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      Suppose a person is in a relationship and has astral sex with another person - does that count as infidelity? The astral body and mind is fully conscious when engaging in astral sex and has the capability to think, reason, and listen or ignore one's conscience much like the capabilities of the physical body and mind. Although astral sex is real, whereas dreaming about having sex with someone is not, this brings up another question. What about having sexual dreams when you have a partner - does that count as cheating? Some things that happen within our dreams we have little or no control over, but what about those dreams where we do have control, or in lucid dreaming, where we're fully in control of our own actions, if we engage in sexual activity then, would that count as infidelity as well? Since the people in our lucid dreams and regular dreams are either a product of our imagination or are images of real individuals who are not actually participating in the dream, unlike in astral projections dreams, would it still be ethically wrong to consciously engage in sexual activity within those dreams? Theoretically, would that be equivalent to cheating? For those of you who have answered yes or no, please share the reasoning behind your conclusion.
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    2. #2
      Generic lucid dreamer Seeker's Avatar
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      I know most of the people here would disagree with me, but, yes, I believe it is a form of cheating.

      Think of it, you are fully concious, feel everything, experience the emotions and bonds that form during normal sex. You also exercise your will to do this. Just because it is an 'astral' or dream event does not change the fact that you purposefully chose to have a 'sexual encounter' with another being. Some will argue that this is just a form of masterbation. Well, is not your masterbating while looking at the latest swimsuit edition also not a form of betrayal?

      When you do these things, you are demonstrating that your partner has fallen short in some manner and that you need another outlet for your lusts.

      Let me turn the question around. How would you feel if your partner told YOU that they were having 'astral sex' or lucid sex with different partners? Wouldn't you feel a sense of betrayal? I know I would.
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    3. #3
      Truth Seeker <span class='glow_9400D3'>LucidDreamGod</span>'s Avatar
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      Personaly I don&#39;t think so, I fantasize all the time, and fatasys only take place inside the mind, and basicly never even took place, and astral/dream sex isn&#39;t much diffrent (as they both take place outside the physical world) I red once in a book about astral projection, that astral sex is not considered cheating, infact it can be quite healthy, for example your partner doesn&#39;t have the same sex drive as you, and they never have to know about it, all depends on your definition of reality, I&#39;m an atheist though.

      Your going to get alot of mixed feedback about this.



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    4. #4
      Supreme Lurker Warlock's Avatar
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      I will have to agree with Seeker.
      Well, he have already said what was on my mind too, so there is nothing left to say for me.
      Eternity in a Box.

    5. #5
      Back by Unpopular Demand NeAvO's Avatar
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      I agree with Seeker, I mean you are still having sex, and enjoying it with another person.
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    6. #6
      Member DyerMaker's Avatar
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      Someone&#39;s going have to explain to me how this is possible. I thought AP was your energy/mind/soul whatever you want to call it leaving the body and traveling in this physical reality.

      So when you AP you have a form? And you are able to see and run into others are APing and just have random sex? I&#39;m not following.


    7. #7
      Truth Seeker <span class='glow_9400D3'>LucidDreamGod</span>'s Avatar
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      You are sopposed to be able to meet higher entitys or other projecters I believe astral sex has something to do with the throat chakra.
      you pretty much said it all.

      EDIT: although I do consider astral sex a form of cheating, I believe that it is impossible for your partner to be emotionaly harmed by it, inless you just come out and tell them, and the guilt from doing it is defined as irrational thinking.

      1: if your sensitive you shouldn&#39;t do it

      2: if your irrational you shouldn&#39;t do it

      3: if it goes aganst your beliefs you shouldn&#39;t do it



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    8. #8
      Member icuurd12b42's Avatar
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      No. Since you are not in full control even though you think you are.

      On the other hand, one must consider the possibility that if the astral world is more real than ours then would having a partner here be considered cheating on you astral partner?

      Since there is no way of telling if it&#39;s real or not then no, having sex in a reality (made up or not) beyond this one is not cheating.

      Now stop thinking of ways to make you feel guilty.
      The ego is a dangerous thing to feedů

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by NeAvO View Post
      I agree with Seeker, I mean you are still having sex, and enjoying it with another person.
      [/b]
      That "another person" is your brain.

    10. #10
      The 'stache TweaK's Avatar
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      I wouldn&#39;t consider it cheating, but if you have to .. exhaust your fantasies on a dream character, then you really need to talk to your partner.

    11. #11
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      It seems that most people are voting on the side of promiscuity.

      How many of these people would tell their spouse that they were so free and easy in their dreams?

      If they would be ashamed to tell their partner... or afraid to tell their partner... that they are out to screw anybody or anything in their dreams, then they have voted not correctly, but only in regards to their dishonest wishful thinking.

      So, no, just because you would like to screw around and cheat in this one way where you are fairly share you could never be caught, does not make it right.

      Also, you must consider that if you become accustomed to finding sexual satisfaction away from your &#39;old man&#39; or &#39;old lady&#39; then it does not bode well for the relationship, does it? If you are so happy to find &#39;Strange Stuff&#39; in your dreams, then how long before you start looking for &#39;Strange Stuff&#39; while awake.

      "Honey, I have to work late". Its an easy lie and you will find yourself saying it, if you go on pursuing such adventures in your dreams. After all, where do all of your Conscious Urges come from that do not originate first in your Dreams.

      Just look about at the jaded middle aged men and women who cheat with experience and pride themselves on being Men and Women &#39;of the World&#39;... street smart and all of that. They did not start that way. When they were young they were faithful and idealistic. But what they allowed to go forward in their Dreams slowly crept into their Lives.

    12. #12
      Wanderer Merlock's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
      If they would be ashamed to tell their partner... or afraid to tell their partner... that they are out to screw anybody or anything in their dreams, then they have voted not correctly, but only in regards to their dishonest wishful thinking.

      So, no, just because you would like to screw around and cheat in this one way where you are fairly share you could never be caught, does not make it right. [/b]
      Quoted and emphasised for truth.

    13. #13
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
      I know most of the people here would disagree with me, but, yes, I believe it is a form of cheating.

      Think of it, you are fully concious, feel everything, experience the emotions and bonds that form during normal sex. You also exercise your will to do this. Just because it is an &#39;astral&#39; or dream event does not change the fact that you purposefully chose to have a &#39;sexual encounter&#39; with another being. Some will argue that this is just a form of masterbation. Well, is not your masterbating while looking at the latest swimsuit edition also not a form of betrayal?

      When you do these things, you are demonstrating that your partner has fallen short in some manner and that you need another outlet for your lusts.

      Let me turn the question around. How would you feel if your partner told YOU that they were having &#39;astral sex&#39; or lucid sex with different partners? Wouldn&#39;t you feel a sense of betrayal? I know I would.
      [/b]
      You and I seeker need to store a copy and paste about this topic. We have addressed this many times.
      I agree with you.

      So to turn a twist on things
      <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("seeker")</div>
      When you do these things, you are demonstrating that your partner has fallen short in some manner and that you need another outlet for your lusts.[/b]
      We all know that any one person is unlikely to fulfill your every fantasy. This maybe one reason they say day dreaming is often a healthy outlet to vent these pent up feelings.
      Just a counter argument.
      I still believe people need to pose some will power and not become so complacent with what they have.
      If one is truly that unhappy then they should not be in that relationship. Also if you are consistently engaging in lucid sex and or day dreaming of another, well it is time to take a step back and look at your situation. Often I think through communication a lot of these issues could be addressed. People (Me included) are often chicken shit and do not want to stir up the pot.
      Well stir the damn thing up. If you can&#39;t talk to your partner, then who can you?
      Dr. Phil.


      Howie

    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by TweaK View Post
      I wouldn&#39;t consider it cheating, but if you have to .. exhaust your fantasies on a dream character, then you really need to talk to your partner.
      [/b]
      "talk"

      It always seems the deathknell of a relationship when one says to the other "we need to talk".

      There was a friend of mine at work to whom I would often enough confide with concerning my relationships and I would often tell him what I would say to my assorted girlfriends, that "if we need to &#39;talk&#39;, then there is nothing left to &#39;talk&#39; about".

      Well, my friend considered that a primary reason why I always had less &#39;action&#39; going on than himself, and that may well have been true. His greater tolerance for the vageries of femininity along with more willingness to compromise and surrender did infact promote more longevity in his relationships.

      But then one day he confessed to me that one of his girlfriends had hit him the night before with the exact phrace "We have to talk".

      And guess what? He was surprised to find himself saying "If we have to talk then we have nothing left to talk about". And he said it felt good.

      So you see, sex is not the only thing that feels good.

    15. #15
      Consciousness in the Void Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Good question...

      I will say from the beginning here that I don&#39;t think astral projection involves really leaving the body. I think it is a dream like state induced from the waking state. Also, I am one of those people who has a hard time relating to having just one woman for the rest of my life. But more power to those who were cut out for it. I wish I was. With that said, I don&#39;t think astral sex would be cheating or betrayal. Expecting your partner to see you as the only sexual being for them even in their thoughts is just asking for too much. Some women expect their men to think of only them during masturbation. That is completely unrealistic and involves way too high of an expectation. I think that for a relationship to survive, there has to be some form of straying of the mind. It gives the relationship less of a feel of being so limiting. There has to be some breathing room. Also, I think it might be neurologically impossible for a man to never even think of another woman sexually, and it is probably neurologically impossible for a woman to never think of another man sexually. But like I said, I am not Dr. Relationship.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal View Post

      I don&#39;t think astral sex would be cheating or betrayal. Expecting your partner to see you as the only sexual being for them even in their thoughts is just asking for too much.

      [/b]
      And here I am so often accused of being illogical...

      No, what you should be saying is that you are indeed cheating, but that your partner should not mind. You can see the contradition in what you did assert -- that you don&#39;t consider it cheating, and that your partner should not consider it a betrayal. If it &#39;was not cheating&#39; then where is the &#39;betrayal&#39; that you require your partner to forgive?

      So, if you believe in "cheating" on Monogymy, then be man enough to say so. Don&#39;t suppose you can sneak off and have sex and claim that just as long as you don&#39;t get caught it somehow isn&#39;t &#39;cheating&#39;.

      So tell the &#39;old lady&#39; that you pay your share of the bills, and do your duty about the house and the children, and after that what you do with your free time and energy is your own business, and if she don&#39;t like it, she knows where to find the courthouse.

      Instead you are so used to lying about cheating that now you even lie to yourself about it.

    17. #17
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      To me personally, and I don&#39;t necessarily extend this personal moral to other people, it&#39;s pretty much cheating with you&#39;re consciously doing it, even if you feel as if you&#39;re in another realm or something. I don&#39;t think it&#39;s cheating if you&#39;re dreaming and have no conscious control over it. What I&#39;ve found funny about this topic, since I&#39;ve been with my husband, having sex in my dreams with someone other than my husband is almost an instant lucidity cue... if things are getting hot and heavy with someone in my dreams who isn&#39;t my husband, I suddenly get upset, realize it is a dream, and go into the next room or whatever to find him. I think that if you only partially gain lucidity in a dream like that, it&#39;s not cheating either. If I don&#39;t gain full lucidity in those dreams, I don&#39;t stop and go looking for hubby. I don&#39;t see that as cheating.

      It is an odd semi-dilemma.
      -TreeShifter

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    18. #18
      Consciousness in the Void Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
      And here I am so often accused of being illogical...

      No, what you should be saying is that you are indeed cheating, but that your partner should not mind. You can see the contradition in what you did assert -- that you don&#39;t consider it cheating, and that your partner should not consider it a betrayal. If it &#39;was not cheating&#39; then where is the &#39;betrayal&#39; that you require your partner to forgive?

      So, if you believe in "cheating" on Monogymy, then be man enough to say so. Don&#39;t suppose you can sneak off and have sex and claim that just as long as you don&#39;t get caught it somehow isn&#39;t &#39;cheating&#39;.

      So tell the &#39;old lady&#39; that you pay your share of the bills, and do your duty about the house and the children, and after that what you do with your free time and energy is your own business, and if she don&#39;t like it, she knows where to find the courthouse.

      Instead you are so used to lying about cheating that now you even lie to yourself about it.
      [/b]
      Leo, I know you have admitted that you come here to provoke people, but I suggest you do it with a good bit more logic than that. You just laid out quite an incoherent spew. Since I like arguing with internet instigators, I will correct your mess. I said that you cannot cheat on somebody with a thought AND added in detail that expecting somebody to not even stray away from them in their thoughts is unrealistic and unfair. You assume that cheating could be the only percieved betrayal. How about falsely percieved cheating? How about betrayal in thought that qualifies as something that is not cheating? How logical would a woman be if she called her divorce lawyer and said that her husband cheated on her with a magazine, or a mental image of an imaginary woman? "My husband cheated on my with his imaginary mistress&#33; I&#39;m going to kick her ass&#33;" Then you went off into some really bizarre territory in the region of the completely unfounded. Try harder.

      Have you ever been in a relationship with one of the children you molest (I am only saying that because you once gave a passionate speech in defense of pedophilia.) and thought about only that child, year after year? I bet you like to switch around between three year olds and four year olds, at least in your mind. Right?
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


    19. #19
      SAS
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      Forgive me for asking, but could somebody define "astral sex" for me? I&#39;m a bit new to the entire Beyond Dreaming forum.

    20. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by SAS View Post
      Forgive me for asking, but could somebody define "astral sex" for me? I&#39;m a bit new to the entire Beyond Dreaming forum.
      [/b]

      Do you know what a "Wet Dream" is? It is to have sex with a Dream Character. Well, Astral Sex is to have Sex with an entity from the Astral Realms... probably another person doing astral travel... like two strangers meeting at a Club and hooking up, only the &#39;cluc&#39; is the Astral Plane.

      Anyway, the way this debate is shaping up, it seems that it is NOT considered cheating if it can be kept secret from one&#39;s significant other. While they could be seen sneaking back and forth to the Clubs downtown, they think they don&#39;t have to worry about being caught having their &#39;Wet Dreams&#39;... and if the "Old Lady" finds the old &#39;wet spot&#39; in the bed, they could always lie and tell her that they were &#39;dreaming about her&#39;... yeah right. Like anybody in the history of the world has ever dreamed about the person they are couped up with... except in their nightmares.

    21. #21
      SKA
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      Lustfull desires are always present, even when you are madly in love with someone. Many non lucid dreams include sex with DreamCharacters other then your Partner: Should you wake up feeling guilty? No. You didn&#39;t REALLY cheat afterall. And when you&#39;re in a Relation ship there&#39;s no doubt that you&#39;ll be attracted to others anywaz: As long as you don&#39;t give in to these desires and Value something as good and infinitely more valuable as Love Miles OVER Lust : You did nothing Wrong.

      Having sex with Dream Characters other then your Partner is merely VENTING these desires in a Non-harmfull way as I see it.
      Luminous Spacious Dream Masters That Holographically Communicate
      among other teachers taught me

      not to overestimate the Value of our Concrete Knowledge;"Common sense"/Rationality,
      for doing so would make us Blind for the unimaginable, unparalleled Capacity of and Wisdom contained within our Felt Knowledge;Subconscious Intuition.

    22. #22
      Member Lucid Night Flight's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by DyerMaker View Post
      Someone&#39;s going have to explain to me how this is possible. I thought AP was your energy/mind/soul whatever you want to call it leaving the body and traveling in this physical reality.

      So when you AP you have a form? And you are able to see and run into others are APing and just have random sex? I&#39;m not following.
      [/b]
      When you astrally project, your astral body detaches from your physical body (much like in the transition during death) and this body has all the senses your physical body has and you are able to either roam around within the physical plane or travel to an astral plane. Because you take on an astral form, the only way you can come in contact with an individual who can see you/acknowledge you in that state would be to encounter other people who are astrally projecting, or having an out of body experience, which is just another term for AP. I have read about people actually planning with their friend or significant other to willfully project to each other in the astral plane and some claim to have been successful at this. Of course astral projection has many more benefits to it than just sex. People can "meet up" within the astral state and do pretty much anything that they can do in the physical world, and all their senses are more magnified within the astral realm. Because astral sex involves people who are fully conscious, just because they&#39;re in the astral realm does not mean that they will be willing to engage in sexual activity with a random person they run into, but I think that a lot of people who are astrally projecting are not even realizing they&#39;re doing this, so they may want to "experiment" because they perceive the astral dream to be a regular dream. Also, from what I know, astral projection should only be practiced when a person is willing to lose some sleep because in that state your mind is constantly engaged, and therefore is not rested.
      Take the highway to the end of the night
      Take a journey to the bright midnight
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      Some are born to sweet delight
      Some are born to the endless night.

    23. #23
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      Astral projection or oobes are as real as being awake. They can be accessed by lucid. In fact when you&#39;re flying whist lucid then you&#39;re probably out of body.
      The astral body does not become totally separated from your actual body so no fear of dying. Dying is a total separation.
      During an oobe we are completely alert, but contrary to what you may think, you actually feel totally energised when you return. It shouldn&#39;t drain, unless you&#39;re in contact with some nasty little vampire entitiy, in which case get the hell out of there. It should, in fact give you strength.
      The whole notion of sex in the astral body is completely different than the material world. We are sexual beings. Breathing is a sexual act. Every interaction we have is sexual, but not in a normal sense, in an energetic sense. It is an organic exchange.
      If you ever watch the aura of a plant you can see that they are the most turned on horny things&#33; They&#39;re constantly reproducing with themselves.
      So meeting another human in oobe state will usually involve a complete honest exchange of energy. This is a sexual exchange whether you like it or not. However it&#39;s not like going into a bar and taking someone home to fuck, scuse the term.
      It&#39;s 6.51 am with me. I&#39;ve been awake since 4. Are you ahead or behind in time zone?

    24. #24
      Member zoo york is cool's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
      I know most of the people here would disagree with me, but, yes, I believe it is a form of cheating.

      Think of it, you are fully concious, feel everything, experience the emotions and bonds that form during normal sex. You also exercise your will to do this. Just because it is an &#39;astral&#39; or dream event does not change the fact that you purposefully chose to have a &#39;sexual encounter&#39; with another being. Some will argue that this is just a form of masterbation. Well, is not your masterbating while looking at the latest swimsuit edition also not a form of betrayal?

      When you do these things, you are demonstrating that your partner has fallen short in some manner and that you need another outlet for your lusts.

      Let me turn the question around. How would you feel if your partner told YOU that they were having &#39;astral sex&#39; or lucid sex with different partners? Wouldn&#39;t you feel a sense of betrayal? I know I would.
      [/b]
      Yes, Seeker took the words right ouut my mouth.

      (coke)

    25. #25
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      LOL cool topic. i wonder if two people can have an astral Baby?.

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