Lucid concerns

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07-23-2004, 12:43 PM
desol

Lucid concerns

I am logging this now at 5:20am...after an extended and very powerful lucid experience. To induce lucid dreaming is not hard...at all for me...as it's easy to discern between what's possible and what's not while dreaming....the hard thing is "maintaining" the control experience and "convincing" the brain to take you places within the dreamscape...it doesn't want you to go to. In fact...tonight...i had such control for such a long time...that i was beginning to get a very slight sense of pain..from mental stress due to forcing and fighting with my brain over control of my surroundings. This has made me realize that at it's very extreme...lucid "control" dreaming is not always good, as the brain is fighting to show you the things it needs to reflect back to you...it's own reflections and view of things...in essence...sometimes...you need to just let the brain do it's thing, as the dream then...instead of becoming a learning experience...with the brain in control...becomes merely a playground...with the brain eventually...almost becoming upset...that it cannot do what it wants or really..."has" to do...and you may not benefit from what it has to show you psychologically. One other thing i noticed...was that the brain simply refused to do some things that i wanted it to....for example...near the end of this self controlled experience...i very conciously...kept trying to go see my deceased grandfather...but it simply would not let me go...it was a constant struggle to try to make my way to the street where my grandparents house was...it was as though...it was almost...impossible...even though...i was in control of this dream. So therefore it's almost a conclusion...that ultimately...lucid control...is at it's best when the ratio is 70 percent control by your concious mind...and 30 of the brain inputing random events that you can choose to deal with as you wish....this doesn't upset the brain so much. One more very important observation...because of this extended fight to control the dreamscape...when i "slowly" awoke...there was much more more of a sense of feeling that i was still dreaming even though i knew i was awake....as though the sense of reality normal to waking...had been significantly lessened...which seemed at the moment...not a pleasent experience...

June 23/04 dreamtime - roughly ...4:00am...through till around 5:20am
07-23-2004, 02:53 PM
gameover

Quote:

So therefore it's almost a conclusion...that ultimately...lucid control...is at it's best when the ratio is 70 percent control by your concious mind...and 30 of the brain inputing random events that[/b]

How'd you come up with those numbers? Every lucid moment of my life has been a sacred, beautiful time that has left me happy for days. Maybe the conflict you have is internal.
07-23-2004, 03:42 PM
Remus

I've not really had that problem, either. There was the one time I was stabbed right after becomign lucid but I think that was just my concious trying to stop me from being lucid. Anyway I had a really good nno-lucid dream aftaer that..xD....I think maybe that you have a confilict with yourself somehow and it is reflecting in your dreams as that.
07-23-2004, 04:10 PM
weiwei

i started to experience lucid dream since i was young, about 10 yrs old... had it for many times already. But usually when i know that i am dreaming, i will force myself to wake. Maybe most of the time when i know that i am dreaming, it's a scary dream. Really hope that i have a chance to experience again and able to control and not force myself to wake again. Forcing myself to wake is very tiring, got to try very hard. :wink:
07-23-2004, 05:37 PM
desol

Quote:

Originally posted by gameover

Quote:

So therefore it's almost a conclusion...that ultimately...lucid control...is at it's best when the ratio is 70 percent control by your concious mind...and 30 of the brain inputing random events that

How'd you come up with those numbers? Every lucid moment of my life has been a sacred, beautiful time that has left me happy for days. Maybe the conflict you have is internal.[/b]

Read slowly.

This post was based on analytical observations of this experience...and not to do with my psychological state.

I came up with those numbers....after i realized that constant lucid "control" dreaming is not totally healthy...the whole purpose of dreaming is for the brain to reflect back to you daily observations and the implications of your feelings, experiences and emotions. Stopping this process...too much...is not healthy. This is a part of how the brain has evolved and and a part of how your emotions and experiences are processed naturally in a healthy way. Your not going to change evolution overnight. If you read my post more carefully...more analytically...you will realize it has little to do with a "problem" but more acurately suggests scientific "oberservation"...and "physical" sensations in retrospect of the experience.

It's so funny how an "inner" problem is so easily the scapegoat to a seemingly opposing view that you don't like...normal dreaming is HEALTHY...lucid dreaming is FUN. AGAIN...these reflections were based on ***"physical"*** sensations and observations of myself...during the lucid control AND after waking. What i was saying...in laymen terms...and how i got those numbers...was based on the slight....gradually, increasing 'physical' pain i felt in 'forcing' or 'fighting' the brain to 'not' have a normal dream...in the shadow of controlling the dream...or what you can call..."lucidity".

Maybe it's a good idea for individuals to think less about the dreaming world and more about the real world? How's that for an observation?
07-23-2004, 06:05 PM
jlambie

sounds messed up man.

That sounds pretty screwed up man. Just because one is lucid dreaming does not entirely mean that he/she cannot interpret their feelings or reflect on the days events. Your brain can still interpret those facts while lucid dreaming. I've only ever had one extended lucid dream, so i won't deny that i could be totally wrong, but i woke up feeling twice as fresh and more relaxed than i had ever felt in my life... and by the sounds of it, so have others....
07-23-2004, 06:09 PM
desol

Re: sounds messed up man.

Quote:

Originally posted by jlambie
That sounds pretty screwed up man. Just because one is lucid dreaming does not entirely mean that he/she cannot interpret their feelings or reflect on the days events. Your brain can still interpret those facts while lucid dreaming. I've only ever had one extended lucid dream, so i won't deny that i could be totally wrong, but i woke up feeling twice as fresh and more relaxed than i had ever felt in my life... and by the sounds of it, so have others....

Lucid dreaming means that you are conciously controlling your dream...therefore...if your conciously controlling your dream...your not letting the natural flow of dreaming events occur?....think about it? It's a paradox. Not to say that random normal dreaming events don't occur...because random natural occuring events...were intertwined amongst the lucid control....again read the original post.
I've had many lucid experiences...this was the only one...that i explicitly forced and tried to maintain. And the results were logged in the original post above. It's sounds screwed up because it's a real...down to earth...unflowery...oberservation done at the moment of waking...in retrospect of the physical nature of the experience. I'm not here to make you feel better...i'm here to give you an honest, accurate record of all physical...and mental sensations...after an extreme experience involving lucid control.
07-23-2004, 06:31 PM
desol

Quote:

Originally posted by gameover

Quote:

So therefore it's almost a conclusion...that ultimately...lucid control...is at it's best when the ratio is 70 percent control by your concious mind...and 30 of the brain inputing random events that

How'd you come up with those numbers? Every lucid moment of my life has been a sacred, beautiful time that has left me happy for days. Maybe the conflict you have is internal.[/b]

Quote:
Ever since i was a kid...by concentrating on running down a hallway and slamming a door...by repeating this action and concentrating on the sound of the slamming door behind me...i am able to enter a paralyzed state of being...

you could look at this as a curse or a gift. That's an incredible ability you have.
_________________

And as you can see i am the same individual that you posted the above reply to...this ability that i have to force dream paralysis...is the same ability i have with lucid control...so you can confide in the fact...that i have a good understanding of what i'm talking about. After all...i've been doing this since i was young...and to be honest...i would much rather let natural dreaming events occur...and put aside controlling a dream... as an occasional "fun" thing to do.
07-23-2004, 06:54 PM
gameover

Im not here to argue experience. Your experience is yours and no one can touch that.

Quote:

Lucid dreaming means that you are conciously controlling your dream...therefore...if your conciously controlling your dream...your not letting the natural flow of dreaming events occur[/b]

But now you're generalizing that this is the case for everyone else. Some people naturally LD all of the time. For me, it is a natural desire to be lucid and in power in my dreams. It goes with the natural flow of things in my life. And my mind responds very well to it. It leaves me feeling really good. Plus the dream world, with all of it's infinite recources is a good place to work out any problems or issues that I do have. Lucid dreaming is not new and has been practiced for a long time.

Quote:

It's so funny how an \"inner\" problem is so easily the scapegoat to a seemingly opposing view that you don't like[/b]

My point is that this problem doesn't seem to be a problem for most people, so it must be something in you. I'm not trying to knock down an opposing argument. This isn't debate class. Most of us are here to share and learn. I wasn't trying to attack you in anyway.

Oh, and Lucid dreaming does not mean that you are trying to control your dreams. It just means that you are aware that you're dreaming. Even when you're not lucid, you are still constantly making choices in the dream. The only difference is that you're not aware that it is a dream.
07-23-2004, 07:25 PM
desol

You are correct....as evident in this clip taken from this very site:

"Many people seem ignorant of the distinction between having a lucid dream, and controlling a dream. Being able to freely control one’s dream does not directly follow becoming lucid: one can have a lucid dream without any control whatsoever. Controlling your dream is simply proceeding to the next level, by attempting to exert your will upon your surroundings."

For me...i guess...simple lucidity passed along time ago...so i guess in being able to control my dreaming sequence...right down to the very fact...that the amount of control exerted on my surroundings within the dreamscape...almost became mentally painful...is an account for everyone else to read about what happens at the utmost extreme of the lucid experience....

This was a purposeful experiment to see the "maximum amount of control" that i could exert over my dream surroundings...resulting in mostly enjoyable sensations...but some not so enjoyable ones as well...and this outcome...has absolutely nothing to do with anything relating to psychological health...and everything to do with the possible 'consequence' of concentrated mental stress while forcibly controlling a dream....