Lucid Morality Experiment

I got lucid in an afternoon nap today.. unfortunately I've forgotten some of it - it was quite long, maybe my longest lucid ever, but because it was so long I only remember certain things... also I think I may have gone in and out of lucidity a few times. However, one bit I remember quite clearly.

I was lucid, and walking around a sort of town square, thinking about different things to do, when I remembered reading about morality in lucid dreams, and certain experimenters trying hurting themselves or others. I decided to try an experiment. There were lots of dream characters about, so I decided to try to "cut" one. Killing them never occurred to me, but I somehow got a razor blade and approached one. He just stood there, and I took my razor and made a cut on his arm. I saw the skin open up but it didn't bleed much. It was strange though, he just...stood there. I felt kind of bad, but also a bit baffled by his reaction, so I went up to another DC and did the same thing. He put his hand over the cut like it hurt, but didn't say anything... and then I noticed that I really felt quite awful - bad and almost a little sick and disgusted, and also quite guilty. I knew the whole time that I was in a dream and this wasn't real, but it didn't seem to make much difference. I felt I couldn't leave them like that. I remembered reading about lucid dream healing, and so I rubbed my hands together til they felt warm and had a sort of vague yellowish glow to them, and I pressed them against the first guy's cut, closed my eyes, and thought "heal". After a few moments, I got the feeling that he was healed, took my hands away, and the cut was gone. I felt relieved, and I did the same to the second guy, and they both looked really grateful, and I felt much better. I've come to the conclusion that I can't hurt anyone in a dream - I felt just as bad about it as I would in real life.

Has anyone else performed an experiment like this - if so, what were your results?

I haven't tried healing a DC before, but I can relate to the part about feeling sick, disgusted and guilty after hurting a DC. In my last lucid I decided to get some payback on a DC who had been an asshole to me in the dream before I became lucid. "Some payback" is an understatement - I actually stabbed him through the heart :eek:. As he gurgled and writhed over onto the desk in front of him, I suddenly felt intensely disgusted with myself. Literally sick to my stomach. It didn't occur to me to try to heal him, though - instead I just walked away and tried to shrug it off, telling myself it was only a dream :|.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DuB

I haven't tried healing a DC before, but I can relate to the part about feeling sick, disgusted and guilty after hurting a DC. In my last lucid I decided to get some payback on a DC who had been an asshole to me in the dream before I became lucid. "Some payback" is an understatement - I actually stabbed him through the heart :eek:. As he gurgled and writhed over onto the desk in front of him, I suddenly felt intensely disgusted with myself. Literally sick to my stomach. It didn't occur to me to try to heal him, though - instead I just walked away and tried to shrug it off, telling myself it was only a dream :|.

---

I think the thing to keep in mind is - live and learn, you know? You found out that it's not for you - you can't do that kind of thing, even though you know it's just a dream. I was lucky I'd read about lucid dream healing, because I hated what I'd done and really wanted to fix it, and as soon as I fixed it I felt much better, I felt like things were "right" again.

I don't know if I'd feel different if I were defending myself in a dream - I haven't had a lucid where I was being attacked and had to defend myself with violence - I think if that happened and I were lucid I'd probably try another way of resolving the problem - talking to whatever was attacking me, or holding out my hand and thinking "stop" and believing that I couldn't be harmed, that kind of thing.

Dreams are a gift. They should be respected. I believe that is one of the main reasons I can't possibly hurt dream characters in a lucid dream.

Another reason is that I try to make my dreams life-like in that what I do in a dream should have consequences in that dream world (though the consequences may not emerge until a later dream!).

Morality aside, since DC's are essentially a part of you, is it possible that you feel sick after hurting or killing one because you're actually hurting or killing a part of yourself? Just a thought...

Well, the weird part for me is that I've inflicted all kinds of punishment on DCs using superhero-like powers and never batted an eye. Although that tended to be a bunch of punching/kicking/throwing, it was probably just as lethal considering the god-like strength I usually possess at the time. The main focus those times, I think, was on the simple fact that I was able to do those sorts of things. Like living out a video game. However, when I stabbed the DC, it was nothing spectacular or entertaining, it was simply murder. So what I'm getting at is that, at least for me, it's very much the context of the violence rather than simply violence itself.

where are some of the threads that talk about healing and morality, etc? it sounds really interesting. I want to know how to heal in LDs (once I actaly have 1)

Could you compare morality in lucid dreams to morality in computer games?

I once became Lucid in a dream where there was A DC that was really pissing me off. I picked him up and pushed him head first towards the rotating paddle on this big mixing machine. The look of terror on his face made me feel pretty bad about it. But I screamed at him, telling him that this was a dream, and if I wanted to I could stick him in there. I then dropped him on the ground and walked away.

I don't normally randomly attack DC's, but I do have methods for dealing with them when they attack me. Like using TK to control their actions or levitate them away. Or making myself insubstantial so that they can't touch me.

Or sometimes for fun I'll just let them attack me, to see the surprise on their face when they find out they can't hurt me at all.

This morning, i had a lucid dream where i hijacked a car grand theft auto style. it was a dominoes delivery car and i opened the door, punched the Dream character in the face, and pulled him out of the car. I got in and i felt really bad about it because he looked really scared and i can still imagine the look on his face. When i was driving i soon forgot about it but is there anything wrong with that?

also, i was trying to convince a DC that they could fly but she didnt believe me and wouldnt do it? have you ever tried to do that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kevinwhited

This morning, i had a lucid dream where i hijacked a car grand theft auto style. it was a dominoes delivery car and i opened the door, punched the Dream character in the face, and pulled him out of the car. I got in and i felt really bad about it because he looked really scared and i can still imagine the look on his face. When i was driving i soon forgot about it but is there anything wrong with that?

also, i was trying to convince a DC that they could fly but she didnt believe me and wouldnt do it? have you ever tried to do that?

---

Na, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Your free to do anything you want in your own mind. But if you felt bad about punching the guy, maybe next time you don't need to punch him. Just pull him out and take his car.:P

Yeah, I like to convince DC's their dreaming all the time. I've had so much fun with that. Sometimes it's hard to convince them, But it can be done.
I've had some real fun adventures with Lucid DC's. It gives the illusion of being able to share the experience while it's happening.

Well maybe I am the only sick freak here, but I feel no guilt or sickness when I kill in a dream. I feel more of a relief than anything. But I wouldn't do that if it was IRL, there were no consequences or reasons to feel bad when it is a dream. If it really is a part of me that i am killing when I melt, shatter, throw into a meat grinder, or just beat down a DC then i guess it is an unimportant part of me.

This might be an interesting side note. I have been in karate for about 14 years now. I have a black belt and basically have been trained to kill in defence since i was 3ish. So maybe that has desensitised me or something but killing in a dream doesnt bother me.

I Just never really felt the need to do that in a Lucid. Not much point to it for me. But if that's what you like doing, go to it!:P

In my experience with killing attackers in non-Lucids though. DC's dont' like to die. No matter how many pieces their in lol.

DC's and dream scenery are your subconcious. In a lucid dream, your are in control and can do anything you want...but what about non-lucids?

In a normal dream..your subconcious is in more control than you are, so you might aswell be nice when you are in control, so that they return the favour eh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dizko

In a normal dream..your subconcious is in more control than you are, so you might aswell be nice when you are in control, so that they return the favour eh?

---

well i have actually not had too many bad regular dreams hehe, I guess i havent made my subconcious angry enough at me. but yeah whenever i go lucid i like to have fun and if a DC even looks at me weird, and they do often for some strange reason, then i kill em lol. it is almost like a game since they are not real.
but who knows maybe i will be on here in a month with a mental breakdown and unable to sleep b/c my dreams are trying to kill me all the time.

Oh lol i forgot, I have only every now and then in my life had a dream where i had no control at all, almost every time i dream i know i am dreaming and i have complete control over myself and if i really think about it i can control the surroundings. But that isnt fully lucid, those are still kinda rare for me, but i am getting there.

morality in a dream is like morality in playing a game

a lot of us can kill a monster

we can kill a bad guy

we can hunt

kill aliens and so on

give us a game where we kill new borns with your characters bare hands, and you'll have an uproar. even in games, there is a limit as to what some people find 'fun violence' and to when something is just sick, disgusting and demotes 'morality'

its different from person to person, and depends on your personal limit of what you feel is an immoral fantasy

but I think dreams like this are very revealing about you. can you murder your own mother and feel nothing? or will you be guilt ridden?

I once had a dream where the DCs explained to me, that what I do in a dream reflects my desires and actions and emotions in the real world. With that in mind, I choose differently in that dream, choosing to not leave my family behind when a monster attacks. even when I knew the monster or my family wasn't real. because I felt, it all reflected me in the most basic sense. am I the type of person to forsake my family? I didn't want to be that person.