Thread: What is consciousness?

Originally Posted by stormcrow

how could we prosecute a murderer if he was destined by the laws of physics to commit the crime?

Because maintaining and enforcing a law against murder will--by the laws of physics--cause there to be less murders in the long run. Free will, as far as I'm concerned, is irrelevant.

Consciousness is the result of brain activity. It actually arises from the executive functions of the brain.

To me conciousness is something more than just I biological prosses. If our bodys could go surrvive on outomattic prosses like eating and looking for food shelter and water why be conciouse? What would make it happen. Machines work out problems and can sometimes support themselvs but they dont have a conciouseness they have responses to things. So why we have a conciousness will never be known and it probobly wont ever be explained.

Originally Posted by Osmodin

To me conciousness is something more than just I biological prosses. If our bodys could go surrvive on outomattic prosses like eating and looking for food shelter and water why be conciouse? What would make it happen. Machines work out problems and can sometimes support themselvs but they dont have a conciouseness they have responses to things. So why we have a conciousness will never be known and it probobly wont ever be explained.

Having a consciousness allows us to actively work out problems rather then respond instinctually. It increases our intelligence which increases our survivability. Besides, consciousness is on some level an automatic process. It is just a complex one, but one neuron interacts with another which interacts with another etc. etc. until we find food and shelter and sex.

Originally Posted by Osmodin

To me conciousness is something more than just I biological prosses. If our bodys could go surrvive on outomattic prosses like eating and looking for food shelter and water why be conciouse? What would make it happen. Machines work out problems and can sometimes support themselvs but they dont have a conciouseness they have responses to things. So why we have a conciousness will never be known and it probobly wont ever be explained.

Actually the reason why we're so capable of adapting and surviving is because of our complex mental processes. That's where our consciousness comes from. Although we could probably survive using automatic processes, it wouldn't give us as much of an advantage as consciousness does.

I don't see why consciousness is necessary for complex thought. Can this be explained? And how complex, exactly? Why is it necessary there be a subjective percept associated with, say, a red object, in order for a system to know that it is red? There is digital technology that can tell us if something is red or not, but we don't associate any subjective experience with it. Functionally, it seems that consciousness is a superfluous layer.

I think you could make an argument that consciousness is just really complex thought.

Yet being conscious of red is extremely simple.

Originally Posted by Xei

I don't see why consciousness is necessary for complex thought. Can this be explained? And how complex, exactly? Why is it necessary there be a subjective percept associated with, say, a red object, in order for a system to know that it is red? There is digital technology that can tell us if something is red or not, but we don't associate any subjective experience with it. Functionally, it seems that consciousness is a superfluous layer.

It's not just complex thought that constitutes consciousness. You could argue that CPUs are subjected to having very complex "thoughts". It's probably having executive control over one's thoughts and actions and having self-reflective capabilities that consciousness arises from. I haven't pondered the likely sources of consciousness too in-depth yet, but complex thought is a very good (and possibly the only) candidate, given that the entity is able to be 'aware' of certain things.

Originally Posted by Xei

Yet being conscious of red is extremely simple.

You could argue that simply by seeing red you are conscious of it. As long as you are receiving some form of input of something, you are aware of it. Our brains dull the focus of specific facets of our perception in order to provide sufficient awareness of the things we need to be aware of.

Why settle for one? Here is a cool selection task with multiple views how consciousness is viewed. You can pick three or less:
What is Consciousness?

And for the record I've got pan psychic quantum conscious buddhist, so I keep on posting to Beyond dreaming

Originally Posted by MindGames

It's not just complex thought that constitutes consciousness. You could argue that CPUs are subjected to having very complex "thoughts". It's probably having executive control over one's thoughts and actions and having self-reflective capabilities that consciousness arises from. I haven't pondered the likely sources of consciousness too in-depth yet, but complex thought is a very good (and possibly the only) candidate, given that the entity is able to be 'aware' of certain things.

Are you sure that you even have executive control?

Most people are not conscious. Here is a cool video that I think we all can learn something from: http://=http://video.google.com/vide...Consciousness"

Please watch it. It will answer your questions in a more eloquent way than I could.

Consciousness is self-awareness. Generally considered the ability to think, as opposed to just getting things done. In Jungian psychology, consciousness is an orientation (Introversion/Extraversion) and four functions (Sensing, iNtuition, Thinking, Feeling) differentiated and adapted by the (association with the) ego, as opposed to the Self which included conscious and unconscious material.

I found this pretty interesting: What is Consciousness?

It lists 12 different theories of what consciousness is, and classifies them by name.

Originally Posted by Malac Reborn

Because of the obvious ambiguities in this statement, I'll oblige to the principle of charity and do my best to interpret this:

Every effect has a cause, but isn't determined before it is caused.

1.Every effect has a cause
2.Every effect isn't determined before it is caused.

No conclusion can follow from these two premises alone, so I'll just comment on them.

Therefore, anything determined before it's caused, isn't an effect.

Oh how ignorant I was in the past...

I supposed I should add, too, that because the conclusion inferred is false, considering most movies are the effects of preplanned productions, the premise which it depends upon must be false.

I think consciousness is equal to existence. Existence of any sort demands awareness of such, and awareness demands a consciousness that is aware of being existent, therefore I am conscious.

And I do believe we a have the power of "free will" as the one and only species on this planet, which is why we are the most superior living species on this planet. Our brain does not merely react to nerve-clusters that get impulses on simplistic needs, like animal brains do, for example: dog gets hungry because nerve-clusters in it's brain get stimulated, so it feeds. Humans however, notice that they are hungry but have yet to decide to eat or not to eat. A human being can decide to starve and let somebody else take his food, or through fasting. Let me ask you: Have you ever seen a dog fasting or letting another dog have his food? And if yes do you have a link of any sort so i can read/watch that? (Question goes to OP who claimed that there is no such thing like free-will, but feel free to submit if you got something )

Originally Posted by WiseEggHead

I think consciousness is equal to existence. Existence of any sort demands awareness of such..

Wait - so then my ballpoint pen is conscious ~ ??!!?! This sounds like animism.

Well I am no animist, and no your ballpoint is not conscious, or did you happen to see it interact with it's surroundings on it's own? If so your ballpoint must be possessed by dark spirits and I suggest you to burn it with the help of an exorcist. lol.

I thought we were clear that we are talking about humans only here. I did not intend to bring animism into this.

Edit:

"Existence of any sort demands awareness of such, and awareness demands a consciousness that is aware of being existent."

If you can make sure your ballpoint is aware of it's existence, we may allow it to join our discussion too.

Oops - I haven't read the whole thread, just your post. Taken at face value, your statements that I quoted would indicate than anything that exists is by definition aware and conscious.

.. And why can't they be bright, fun spirits??!!

Ok, still haven't read all of the thread, but skimmed it, and re-read your statement, and to be honest, you said that (and I quote) "consciousness is equal to existence". Am I missing something, or does this not mean that everything that exists is conscious? According to you, my poor possessed Papermate® either does not exist or it must be conscious!

I think there's some kind of implied condition or conditions that you really should make explicit. Maybe what you mean to say is that "awareness equals consciousness - everything that is aware is conscious". That way I don't have to google for a witch doctor..

Hmm. Awareness = Cosciousness = Existence? You see what I meant was, that when you exist and you are aware of it, then you are conscious. if you are conscious that means you are aware. and if you are conscious and aware, so you must exist. for me these three words would prove each other, which would prove that a subject either is conscious or is not conscious. obviously "awareness = consciousness" is right too in that matter, hence as I said to me all three of them are linked, like some kind of triforce (you know the triforce from zelda?), I may draw it real fast and show you in a graph what I mean.

Not familiar with the triforce, but I get what you mean.

Ok, all three legs of the milking stool are vitally important (like Sheldon said to the traffic court judge just before he went to jail on Big Bang Theory) - but you left the awareness leg out, so your stool dumps you on the ground. Existence = consciousness actually means anything that exists is conscious - including a milking stool. But if you say awareness = consciousness, existence is already implied by the fact of awareness. To be aware, something already has to exist, so your tripod is secure. In fact I think I'd go farther and say the stool will actually still stand without the existence leg - obviously we're not discussing whether something that doesn't exist is conscious. That's just silly! I think we can safely rule out non-existent entities (sort of an oxymoron, isn't it?) and simply say Awareness = Consciousness.

Consciousness is the power to be aware of yourself and your surroundings as they are.

Originally Posted by Valmancer

So, I've come to the conclusion that there is no consciousness and we are just machines, formed by random chance and evolution, which react to the random surroundings in the way that left most of our ancestor's alive

We are the opposites of machines. That is the beauty about humans. You don't make choices by random quantum mechanics, because if you get a choice to shoot somebody you don't know, you won't do it on a scale of 1/4 that it could happen. You make your choices based on your experiences, your feelings and of course your values​​.

I think conscious is what the human really is.