Thread: True Alturism...

I believe that everyone has alteast a samll feeling of compassion and a drive for them to help other people. if we were really soley intent on helping our sleves, we would of never become the great speices we are today. Helping others is innate to to us, and no matter how much we may every tyr to hide it or bury it, it still exists.

It's all perception.

In a way, everything we do does serve ourselves, physically or emotionally. But even if it is one's desire to HELP, it's still a desire to work not just for ourselves. It's not possible to be altruistic without desiring to be, or how else would we have this capacity? Or in other words, there is no other way to be altruistic, unless you reckon that emotionless giving is more productive...

I was looking up this topic one day, because I was wondering if all human action was selfish. But in terms of giving, in my experience, I know the difference between wanting an ego boost and real heartfelt love.

I believe that true altruism exists.. you need only to look at parents and their children (but then I guess you could say that some parents do for their children because they are expected to) ..

I am not compassionate for myself at all I do like the feeling thoe. I do beleive everyone has a soul and can each see through there own set of eyes, and even thoe something nice I do for them might not effect me I still know or beleive and have faith that there is a soul in them like in me and that they are effected by it. it is that knowledge that makes me love everyone and want to help them I do think that it requires you to be a god like thinker, u have to become one with god and take care of the world almost like you created it to be an altruist , even if you knew for sure there was no afterlife.

Well, I love people. I love them more than I love myself, even.....To be quite honest, I'm in love with the human race. I do not consider myself a selfish person, and I love to be able to do nice things for people....but I cannot help but wonder if this is some some subconscious way of helping myself. My reasoning is this: The furthering of the human race is the goal of all humanity, and by helping others you help the human race, therefore helping yourself. I never think about this when I do something good for someone else, but it's just kind of funny to think about. You could just about twist it either way.

I just like to see others happy. When people are sad or don't feel that they accomplished something I feel very awkward. I could also see myself happy at gaining a thank you or a I owe ya big time. I like the law of "The Greatest Good for the Greatest Number of People". I guess I am out for everyone including myself because we are all important. If I can do a good deed an make 2 people happy I did my job.

That's a great philosophy!

wasnt there a movie about this called Pay it Foward or somthing?

Originally posted by Yume
I just like to see others happy. When people are sad or don't feel that they accomplished something I feel very awkward.

Exactly! Now that I've thought about this I don't think there is such a thing as "true alturism". People help other people because it they don't, they feel sad. When they help others it gives them a good and warm feeling. Simply: those people get satisfication from helping others.

EDIT: Yes, there is a movie called "Pay it Forward". I saw it some months ago and I think it was pretty good and the idea was nice.

I love the movie Pay it Forward....

I voted no. Even the grand concept of love is completely selfish if you step back and actually look at it. Its a process designed to ensure the survival of your genes into the next generation.

As for the concept of selfless deeds, its completely preposterous. If it makes you feel 'good' to do something, its not selfless. And if it doesn't make you feel good, you get satisfaction from the fact that you did something for someone that didn't make you feel good. At the very least, you wouldn't have to deal with the problem again, which is in your best interest.

Seems to me we can develop and practice altruistic behavior in dreams, giving dream characters things, doing kind things for them. Since the brain doesn't know this difference, wouldn't this translate into real life eventually?

I think that's why the Buddhist practice dream yoga. It's an eventual goal of mine.

Originally posted by bradybaker
I voted no. Even the grand concept of love is completely selfish if you step back and actually look at it. Its a process designed to ensure the survival of your genes into the next generation.

As for the concept of selfless deeds, its completely preposterous. If it makes you feel 'good' to do something, its not selfless. And if it doesn't make you feel good, you get satisfaction from the fact that you did something for someone that didn't make you feel good. At the very least, you wouldn't have to deal with the problem again, which is in your best interest.

What if someone helps someone else without thinking about it? They know they did something, but they just don't care.

Originally posted by Yume
What if someone helps someone else without thinking about it? They know they did something, but they just don't care.

If they 'know' that they did something, then they obviously thought about it.

Originally posted by bradybaker+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bradybaker)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Yume

What if someone helps someone else without thinking about it? They know they did something, but they just don't care.

If they 'know' that they did something, then they obviously thought about it.[/b]

That fact is people have the ability not to care if they help someone or not.

Originally posted by bradybaker
I voted no. Even the grand concept of love is completely selfish if you step back and actually look at it. Its a process designed to ensure the survival of your genes into the next generation.

That would be lust and physical attraction, not love. Real love does not ask for anything in return. If you do label something as love and find that it does ask in return, then what you have labeled is not really love. (somewhat expanded upon in my recent post, "The 4 Components of True Love")

Originally posted by Yume+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Yume)</div>

Originally posted by bradybaker@
<!--QuoteBegin-Yume

What if someone helps someone else without thinking about it? They know they did something, but they just don't care.

If they 'know' that they did something, then they obviously thought about it.

That fact is people have the ability not to care if they help someone or not.[/b]

So, you help someone without thinking or caring about it. Is it a good deed, if you don't think about it? Is it a good deed if you just happen to do it? If you don't care about what you did, you won't think that it's a good deed, even if you know you did something.

As bradybaker said, if you know you did it, you have thought about it. On the other hand if you don't know you did good, it won't be altruism. You can't be altruistic if you doesn't realize what you're doing. You will be just careless and the other party will have good luck.

So, we can come in a conclusion that for being altruistic you need to be aware that what you're doing is good for someone else. Does everyone agree with that?

Then, will you do anything intentionally if you don't get anything out of it?

Let's say that you're in a situation where you have a chance to help someone else but doing it will cause drawback to you. Anyway, you decide to help them. It's a good deed indeed but still not true altruism. The reason why you chose to help them was because the benefits are greater than the drawbacks. You just value the feeling of "doing right" more than helping yourself.

A litmus test for altruism that really only you could know is this. If you did something good for someone would you have done the same if there were strong negative costs associated with it and you did not have a moral axe to grind with whoever was assessing the cost?

That is altrusim is meant to imply love for free, a social love the Greeks called agape and that the early Christians used often in their writings. It means that I love someone simply because I am a someone. I deserve to be treated nicely and I think that others deserve the same. An altruistic person is a person who also loves themself and since all humans are selves they extend this grace to others. Smiling at someone you pass in the hall can be a very altruistic act. But yes, you are right, itis impossible to separate our actions from the the self, we are after all ourselves and nobody else. I heard a statement once that rings true, there are two types of people in this world, givers and takers, and then they say which one are you? The thing is, life itself is give and take, some days you are up some days your down, so trying to be perfectly altruistic is probably impossible. The fact that people generally obey traffic laws is sort of altruistic. I obey them because I do not want a tiocket yes, but also at some level I do not want to maek the roads dangerous for others. There is a chord connecting the self to others and many modern preachers and teachers seem not to have a blanced view of it in my opinion.

EJ