Thread: Moral discussion: Why do you eat animals?

you wanna know why i eat meat?

DO YOU?

YOU WANNA KNOW WHY I MEAT!?!?!??!?!?!?

IT FUCKING TATES GOOD!

THATS WHY!!

and why do you not check your spelling and grammar? Hmmmm?

i only have 1 spelling mistake :/

Missed a few captitols there, and missed an entire word in the bolded sentence...

Making meat-eaters look bad here!

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Well said IndieAnthias

I let myself get worked up because basically, while I was really leaning toward "I agree with all the arguments against eating meat, I just don't really care enough to change my eating habits", I found I didn't want to admit that about myself and I wanted to come up with justifications. And that damn Bingo board made it so hard!!!

you're right thought, that bingo angle is not a constructive mode of arguing.

It's pretty funny though

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Ok wait -

So your whole argument is basically that humans are the superior species, and it's our right to do whatever we want to those pesky animals? Raising them and fattening them and butchering them aren't that bad IMO, but when they're raised in pens hardly any larger than their own bodies and forced to wallow in their own shit all their lives that's getting into what I consider "unnecessary suffering". It's torture really. Lifelong torture. And there's nothing necessary about it... it's all in the name of efficiency, so the corporations can fit more animals into less space and fatten them and butcher them more easily, saving themselves money in the process.

My point is not that we are superior in a pretentious stance, but a natural stance. It's not our "right", more like just a powerful tendency or condition that exists, without which nothing about Earth would be the same. Perhaps animals are fulfilling their purpose? Like it has always been in food-chains. It's the world we all live in.

And if you believe in Karma, then wouldn't it be fitting for humans to be treated that way since we've been doing it to the animals?

Who knows. I am not claiming to know exactly; I just have an intuitive idea.

Originally Posted by IndieAnthias

The fact that you're still using the word 'need' tells me that you didn't consider a single word I wrote in response to you.

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

And of course it is not living and breathing when you eat it because you paid someone to kill it for you. You win defensive omnivore bingo.

I wouldn't pay somebody to kill an animal, no. But I'd pay somebody to cook and serve my meat.

Originally Posted by really

My point is not that we are superior in a pretentious stance, but a natural stance. It's not our "right", more like just a powerful tendency or condition that exists, without which nothing about Earth would be the same. Perhaps animals are fulfilling their purpose? Like it has always been in food-chains. It's the world we all live in.

Can you really say that an animals purpose is to be eaten? It may be your purpose to eat an animal(that would be why you kill it) but both of your purposes are to live, to survive, to breed, to procreate.

Is it our purpose to be eaten by grizzly bears?

I will agree that there are reasons other than pleasure. Convenience is one. I think instinct is another. But it's mostly just that people don't like to think about suffering in our culture. It's a cultural thing, it's conditioning more than instinct I think. That's why people who grow up around vegitarians are more likely to be one.

I wouldn't pay somebody to kill an animal, no. But I'd pay somebody to cook and serve my meat.

Aren't you in essence paying someone to kill an animal when you buy meat? If no one bought the meat they wouldn't do the killing.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Ok wait -

So your whole argument is basically that humans are the superior species, and it's our right to do whatever we want to those pesky animals? Raising them and fattening them and butchering them aren't that bad IMO, but when they're raised in pens hardly any larger than their own bodies and forced to wallow in their own shit all their lives that's getting into what I consider "unnecessary suffering". It's torture really. Lifelong torture. And there's nothing necessary about it... it's all in the name of efficiency, so the corporations can fit more animals into less space and fatten them and butcher them more easily, saving themselves money in the process.

And if you believe in Karma, then wouldn't it be fitting for humans to be treated that way since we've been doing it to the animals?

In the Karmic sense it is humans that are the animals that are being treated that way to make up for a karmic imbalance, perhaps for treating animals that way in the first place. The only way to end that cycle is to stop inflicting suffering onto others.

Xaq, some things you say just zing right over my head.

Do you mean because in Hindu religion animals are reincarnated humans? Ok, now that I wrote that I think it is what you meant.

We all play our roles in every aspect of the karmic cycle. Ultimately hurting another is hurting yourself. The karmic cycle is a bit more nuanced than a human turning into a cow.

Oh I do get that. In fact I think this would be a great place to link to The Egg: The Egg

Love this!! Makes you really re-think things. Well, unless you're Hindu, in which case it would just make you go "well Duh!!"

Originally Posted by StonedApe

Can you really say that an animals purpose is to be eaten? It may be your purpose to eat an animal(that would be why you kill it) but both of your purposes are to live, to survive, to breed, to procreate.

You know I'm generalizing. Like with anything; saying that any one thing the universe has one purpose is very broad. In speaking about eating meat however; animals being raised in order to be eaten is certainly a major aspect of their Karma to exist, and thus, their purpose to fulfill. We have the most power over that purpose, but not so much individually.

Aren't you in essence paying someone to kill an animal when you buy meat? If no one bought the meat they wouldn't do the killing.

You could say it is an indirect contribution, one that is collective and harder to influence by choice.

We eat meat because we can. Its all very simple. The food chain has all your answers. Animals do have feelings and so do we, as we are animals...just evolved.

Originally Posted by 420Dreamer

We eat meat because we can. Its all very simple. The food chain has all your answers. Animals do have feelings and so do we, as we are animals...just evolved.

The thread is not asking why humans eat meat. It is asking why, given the information in the original post and all subsequent posts, why do you personally eat meat? Is the answer the same, because you can? There are many things that you can do that you do not. You can drink you own urine; do you? There are most likely more reasons than just "because I can" behind eating meat, don't you think?

Also, all animals have evolved.

I disagree with you, Xaqaria, people don't need a reason to eat meat. It is usually simply because they can; yes, you can also sniff your own ass, but meat tastes good. Most people simply eat meat because it's on the menu.

Originally Posted by MindGames

...but meat tastes good.

A more accurate reason than "because we can".

It generally follows that people will opt for the most preferable option. Hence why we don't drink piss. Is that really news, though?

The most preferable option, yes. I think that is what the thread is about. What do you prefer, and why? If you prefer to eat meat rather than not because it tastes good, then fine. I hope you would admit that there are other factors at play besides taste, just as "because we can" is not really a sufficient answer. I'm told that babies taste particularly good as their flesh is rich in sweet fats. Hopefully we can all assume that you don't eat babies, and therefore flavor is not the sole factor in your decision making process. If by "because we can" 420Dreamer was alluding to the fact that meat is accesible and legal to consume, would you eat babies if the same were true for them?

The way I see it, and maybe this has been said before, is that many of the animals we eat wouldn't have existed in the first place if we weren't farming them. Secondly, many of the animals we eat are subject to being eaten by various predators. Lastly, I value human experience of pleasure over the lives of many animals.

I am for the humane treatment of animals, but I will never stop eating them completely.

I eat animal meat because it is natural. Though many will disagree with this next statement. But I treat all life equal to humans, for we breathe, sleep, and eat like every animal on this planet. So even though it might not be morally right to eat animal meat, it is naturally right to eat animals.

Originally Posted by Crow360

I eat animals because it is natural........ I treat all life equal to humans

Followed through to logical conclusion... so you eat humans too?

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Followed through to logical conclusion... so you eat humans too?

It's called Soylent Green. And probably not, human meat is never up to FDA standards (Hard to find grass-fed, free-range humans these days.)

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

The way I see it, and maybe this has been said before, is that many of the animals we eat wouldn't have existed in the first place if we weren't farming them.

But is living your whole life in a cage, in your own shit, really a better alternative than not existing in the first place? I dont think you would be to happy with your life if you spent it in a tiny cage being bred for slaughter because the bourgeois in the first world think you taste good.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

Secondly, many of the animals we eat are subject to being eaten by various predators.

Is-Ought problem

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

Lastly, I value human experience of pleasure over the lives of many animals.

Thats pretty upsetting to read. The suffering and subsequent death of a sentient being matters less to you than the momentary pleasure of eating their flesh? That is frankly disturbing.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

I am for the humane treatment of animals, but I will never stop eating them completely.

I sure you wont ever stop, that's fine but don't fool yourself into thinking that causing the suffering and death of the creatures we share the planet with (ya know the only biological life in the known universe) is a moral action.

@Xaqaria
I admire you for duking it out in this thread for so long but I feel that at the end of the day everyone just walks away reaffirming their already established beliefs. Its almost like these discussions are counter productive similar to theist/atheist debates, riddled with fallacies and oozing irrationality.