People are always wondering why others aren't to fond of art......

Now, I dont think this should go in the Artist's Corner secton because this isn't talking about art itself, it talks about peoples perception of art.

Now, there are 5 different types of Art; an idea placed into any of these catagories is hereby considered art:

(correct me if I'm wrong)

MUSIC
VISUAL (DRAW, PAINT, ANIMATED, ETC)
DANCE
DRAMA
WRITING (creative)


So, doesn't that mean ALL 5 OF THESE ARE ART?

I think that The more something is popular, the less artsy it becomes and here's why....

People find classical music more artsy than Metal, Operas more than action movies, etc.

BUT, why isnt Metal music artsy? Metal music is something created from an idea, just like classical. Just because it's louder, doesn't mean that it isn't art.....

So why is it that classical music is more artsy than metal, operas to action movies, puzzle games to FPS games, ballets to break dancing?????

Discuss

It's completely subjective. What might be "artsy" to one person may not be "artsy" to the next. It is wrong to generalize that people don't find metal or break dancing very artistic. It just depends on who you ask. Your use of the word "artsy" is therefore completely ambiguous and the question is invalid.

As to the assertion that "the more something is popular, the less artsy it becomes" ...again I would have to ask...what defines something as being "artsy"? You are basically saying that whatever is popular is not artsy, and whatever is artsy is not popular. I can't make any sense out of it.

wooow.... i got pwned :crying:

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Originally Posted by gameoverlord345

wooow.... i got pwned :crying:

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Oh...no...don't cry. :zocks:

I think that what you are talking about has more to do with the fact that in america(and other patriarchal/dominator societies) art is associated with the feminine. Metal is aggressive(in people's opinion) whereas classical is soft and passive(in people's opinion). This has more to do with our use of the music than the music itself, and also with what examples of the music we are familiar with. This is also related to the popularity, as we live in a male perspective dominant culture, things that are perceived to be non-manly are also non-popular.

Opera just plain sucks. Sorry, I had to let that out, had to listen to a bunch of opera today.

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Originally Posted by Aquanina

Oh...no...don't cry. :zocks:

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Aww... thx :thanks:

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Originally Posted by stonedape

I think that what you are talking about has more to do with the fact that in america(and other patriarchal/dominator societies) art is associated with the feminine. Metal is aggressive(in people's opinion) whereas classical is soft and passive(in people's opinion). This has more to do with our use of the music than the music itself, and also with what examples of the music we are familiar with. This is also related to the popularity, as we live in a male perspective dominant culture, things that are perceived to be non-manly are also non-popular.

Opera just plain sucks. Sorry, I had to let that out, had to listen to a bunch of opera today.

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Yesh, I HATE OPERA, but it IS artsy :P
And thank you for bringing that up :P now i make sense :cackle:

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Originally Posted by gameoverlord345

Yesh, I HATE OPERA, but it IS artsy :P
And thank you for bringing that up :P now i make sense :cackle:

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Only if it is done that way. Artsy is an adjective. You could make a farcical opera that was very unartistic, although if you define all music as art I guess it is impossible, I don't personally. Miley Cyrus is not art. But this is my opinion not a fact. Some people consider musicals to be artsy but I think they're crap for the most part.

It is a pretty bold claim to say that metal is more popular than classical music. Do you have any sort of statistics or data backing this up?

There is no doubt that classical music is seen as more artsy than metal, however I am not so sure metal is more popular. Classical music is every where, in tons of movies and on tv shows, as well as people listening to the songs by them self.

I am willing to bet that even if you don't know the names of some classical songs, they are far more recognizable than some of the most popular metal songs.

I think you are in a bit of denial. You are going to tell me you never heard the flight of the Valkyries, dance of the sugar plum fairy? O Fortuna, you don't know its name but look it up on youtube, I guarantee you heard it before. Hungarian Dance No.5, Beethoven 5th Symphony. Come on I can name all sort of songs that everyone on this forum has heard multiple times before. I know you heard them before, don't try to say you haven't. Everyone has heard it. Hell I bet you can recognize each of the songs from hearing only the first 5 seconds of them. Heck some of them you will recognize from the first 2 seconds of the song!

Come on you can't compare metal, a niche market, to all classical music. Classical music is better, more popular, and the best is nearly universally know. I bet you if you take the top 10 metal songs ever made and compared them to the top 10 classical songs, the classical songs would utterly destroy the metal ones in how well known they are.

So to answer your question, why is classical music more artsy than metal? Because it has been around longer, its more well known, its more popular, and quiet frankly, in most cases it is better.

Some metal I'd definitely consider art. The average person who hasn't looked into art themselves pretty much equates art to something that looks pretty. But people who look into it more know there is usually more than prettiness to art. Sometimes there's none, and often something is art if it has meaning behind it, if it's expressing something, I think. I haven't looked into it much myself, but am pretty sure there's controversy over what constitutes art.

Btw, I don't know why, but I hate the word 'artsy'.

So do I. It annoys the shit out of me.

I always thought of all music being art. I just dislike some of it.

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Originally Posted by Dianeva

Some metal I'd definitely consider art. The average person who hasn't looked into art themselves pretty much equates art to something that looks pretty. But people who look into it more know there is usually more than prettiness to art. Sometimes there's none, and often something is art if it has meaning behind it, if it's expressing something, I think. I haven't looked into it much myself, but am pretty sure there's controversy over what constitutes art.

Btw, I don't know why, but I hate the word 'artsy'.

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The word should be "artistic"

OnTopic: I don't know though. I would definitely consider any genre of music as "art". Some 3 year old can smash a piano, that's not art. However, a carefully composed song that brings out certain feelings or desires should definitely be considered as "art". Like you said, art is usually considered as something pretty. However, I think that art can bring out any kind of feelings. Classical might bring out beaty while metal could convey anger, agression, darkness or sadness. (Although some pieces of metal are conveying a happy message)

I think exposure also plays a role. I never really glass vases and figurines etc as art until I met my hubby. He has a collection of literally THOUSANDS of different types of glass (mostly vases, cups, pitchers etc).
What he's most fond of is called Amberina (the early stuff- 1800's). The crafters actually used gold in the mixture to give it's color and the recipe as well as the form has been lost to time. Cameo's are also awesome as is cut glass... again, stuff from the 1800's early 1900's. The tools they used were oftentimes quite crude and it could take years to finish one piece.

As for music, I LOVE musicals :)
Jekyll and Hyde is most awesome. Here's a couple songs:

YouTube - JEKYLL -The World Has Gone Insane

YouTube - In His Eyes - Jekyll and Hyde Broadway

YouTube - Jekyll & Hyde - Dangerous Game

*goosebumps*

Okay... just one more lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJpJT8Yq3Ng

I think all art is a manifestation of a select human condition in a given state through different perspectives and mediums (painting/music). If metal music shakes your core and speaks your attitude, that is the best art for you. The popular art probably hits on the most universal qualities (obviously), but I feel that the best art (most artsy) art hits any feeling so perfectly that the listener/spectator perceives it effortlessly and effectively.

So in other words, I think it's a question of communication - How well did I (the artist) communicate my thoughts/feelings/ideas/emotions? Not "are my thoughts good/worth communicating" - i.e metal/opera to given audiences.
I think that any thought in art communicated with perfectly sound logical persuasion in painting/music (That's so abstract it hurts my head typing it, if we know that science we could make hit songs unconsciously) is accepted with boundless enthusiasm - it explains why their is at least 1 song in most genres of art that is appreciated - because it communicated so well, and the thought (be it metal) may have a rough exterior, it's up to the artist to tell me that there is a perfectly legitimate/good reason to feel they way he does.

If you wanna define art..

I think there's art, like the fameous mona liza, some paintings and statues i don't really care about but mean something to someone somewhere.

And i think there's abstract communication like sounds that portray feeling instead of words, anything from grunting to high frequency tones to music instruments carefully put together to represent a feeling, poetry , Subliminal imaginary, i don't know what else. but i think these are universal and is the thing im interested in, i doubt we can hang this in a museum tho.