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    Thread: What if thoughts dont come from us but to us?

    1. #1
      Raz
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      What if thoughts dont come from us but to us?

      what if the brain is like a advanced radio, tuning in to a field of potential thought?

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      I have been hearing this idea more and more recently. If this was true, then our brains may be an antenna tuned to a particular "frequency", or they may be somehow attached to a kind of universal consciousness. In fact they may go so far as to BE a part of the universe. I now refer once again to my favorite painting:

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      how is this SB or R/S worthy? no religion involved here. or spirituality.

      and stop raping my brain with awesome thought theories

      Yeah, inner sanctum should be a good place to put this IMO.
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      LD's this year: ~7 tommo's Avatar
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      It's not philosophy though.

      However, I do agree with sloth, in that, our brains are, in fact, part of the universe



      Or maybe that should be
      Last edited by tommo; 07-03-2011 at 05:05 PM.
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      It actually might be somewhat correct. In a field of parapsychology there are theories going on that human brain can pick up "thought" or such from some kind of network. Telepathy is maybe the most studied field of parapsychology and there are increasing amount of scientist agreeing the possibility that there is some kind of universal network, which we all pick things time to time. Some say it is more of our primitive side that has waned over time. Even if it exist, I doubt it would be that radical that all our thoughts are not our own. I would think it is rather more like bits and pieces you can collect, which could manifest as strange sensations and gut feelings or as empathy.

      Too early to say, I wonder if there will be enough studies on our lifetime. Myself, I'll keep open mind about that. Telepathy is by far the most easily acceptable psionic skill compared to psychokinesis or clairvoiance.
      Jujutsu is the gentle art. It's the art where a small man is going to prove to you, no matter how strong you are, no matter how mad you get, that you're going to have to accept defeat. That's what jujutsu is.

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      Proof?

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      Quote Originally Posted by tommo View Post
      Proof?
      He didn't state anything as fact, Tom. He just mentioned possibilities and stated his own thoughts on the subject.
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      Xei
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      Firstly, he stated quite a few things as facts. Secondly, even if he didn't, if you don't give at least some vague outline of why you came to think what you think, there isn't much point in telling people about it, in my opinion.

      There have been a thousand experiments into telepathy, and there have been a thousand 'no positive results'. It irks me when people make vague anecdotes about unidentified people making 'theories'. Okay, maybe they are, but why should we care?
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      A vague answer for very inaccurate question. I am sorry if it felt like I was claiming something. I just rarely feel like posting wall of text when question is that simple, since I am not even debating over anything. While my post might be, as Xei says, pretty pointless, I felt like joining the thread with an quick remark how I feel about the subject. I can gladly clarify myself further and discuss it in length after there is something to be discussed over. The OP didn't give much to go on with. Also, I must admit that my memory isn't that good so I could always remember straight which book or source I read this and that. So I must sacrifice some time, if I need to.

      I just got from work and I am pretty tired so I will return this later if there is any need.
      Last edited by Unelias; 07-04-2011 at 02:35 AM.
      Jujutsu is the gentle art. It's the art where a small man is going to prove to you, no matter how strong you are, no matter how mad you get, that you're going to have to accept defeat. That's what jujutsu is.

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      Drivel's Advocate Xaqaria's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by sloth View Post
      In fact they may go so far as to BE a part of the universe.
      Brains are a part of the universe.
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    12. #12
      Xei
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      I didn't really mean to say that your post was pointless, sorry. What I should have said is making such a post and then disappearing or not answering questions is pointless. There has just been this bizarre antiphilosophical sentiment from a few people in this forum recently where asking questions is apparently not desirable.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Unelias View Post
      A vague answer for very inaccurate question. I am sorry if it felt like I was claiming something. I just rarely feel like posting wall of text when question is that simple, since I am not even debating over anything. While my post might be, as Xei says, pretty pointless, I felt like joining the thread with an quick remark how I feel about the subject. I can gladly clarify myself further and discuss it in length after there is something to be discussed over. The OP didn't give much to go on with. Also, I must admit that my memory isn't that good so I could always remember straight which book or source I read this and that. So I must sacrifice some time, if I need to.

      I just got from work and I am pretty tired so I will return this later if there is any need.
      "there are increasing amount of scientist agreeing the possibility that there is some kind of universal network, which we all pick things time to time."

      That ^ is pretty much the only thing you said that needs some qualifications. Show me the scientists who believe this. Or at least show me the study which
      shows that the number of scientists who believe this, is increasing.
      All the parapsychology theories you're talking about don't need sources because it's all crazies anyway.
      Unless you can find a scientific study published in a reputable peer-reviewed scientific journal, then feel free to post that too.

    14. #14
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      Slept now and feeling a bit refreshed.. Three nights in a row watchin drunk people saps the strenght out of man..

      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      I didn't really mean to say that your post was pointless, sorry. What I should have said is making such a post and then disappearing or not answering questions is pointless. There has just been this bizarre antiphilosophical sentiment from a few people in this forum recently where asking questions is apparently not desirable.
      None taken. It was written quickly before work so it is not accurate. I do intend to answer questions asked, but I am just plain bad at writing my own thoughts down. Answering is a lot easier since it narrows everything down a bit.

      As for Tommo, reason I have said increasing is that in the past five years or so I have stumbled this more and more from different medias and also took an interest in psionics as general, hence personal level. I can try to find something from the internet, but I read a lot more books and journals than the internet.

      Problem with telepathy ( as all parapsychologic research) is that since it can be seen to be dependable on the individual person the test results may deviate from randomness of chance to very high degree of success or clear pattern. If you think of telepathy as how it is generally believed to work there are two individuals. The receiver and the sender. So if it is some kind of learnable skill or some people are more prone to develop such skill in it naturally, those both individuals need to be at sufficient level for it to work. This naturally makes the scientific process very difficult since reproducing the test may give different results if people are changed. Results are often very controversal. When I think of telepathy, it is not about reading mind like portrayed often in literature or movies. I just think it is about catching cues and feelings, combining them to sensible sensations or thoughts. Ie. if I tried to send you a picture of an elephant ballerina standing on the top of Eiffel tower with donut and newspaper, I doubt it could ever achieve such likeness as I pictured it. Maybe couple of keywords like elephant or Eiffel, but not the whole picture.

      Lucid dreaming might had same kind of problems in its scientific beginning. We are studying human mind after all. The only thing that I know for certain and doesn't need any proofs is that human mind is very complex, very powerful tool, which is quite difficult to study, sadly.

      The dream telepathy study as I found it on the internet. I recall I have read the original book translated.
      A Pilot Study in Dream Telepathy with The Grateful Dead - Stanley Krippner

      A biologist Rupert Sheldrake's about dog - human telepathy http://www.sheldrake.org/Articles&Pa.../dog_video.pdf We have noticed the same thing with our cats, by the way. Often, before I am even near my house, cats become restless and head to wait at the door. Just a personal notice.

      About parrot telepathy http://www.sheldrake.org/Articles&Pa..._telepathy.pdf

      The reason I seldom post any links is that quite simply there are only few people who bother to even to look at them. Exceptions exists, of course. I didn't feel like posting thousand links, so maybe even one of the three is interesting to you, at least.

      As I said, results are often quite controversial or the methods are not perfect. But also psychology and human mind are a lot harder to study and develope methods that work than ie. chemistry or physics. There are many experiments like these and the collective information + my own experiments are the reason I am not that hostile about existence of psionic abilities. I am pretty sure though that they are far more weaker than people commonly expect or believe.

      /end_rant
      Last edited by Unelias; 07-04-2011 at 12:25 PM.
      Jujutsu is the gentle art. It's the art where a small man is going to prove to you, no matter how strong you are, no matter how mad you get, that you're going to have to accept defeat. That's what jujutsu is.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
      what if the brain is like a advanced radio, tuning in to a field of potential thought?
      I used to believe this wholeheartedly, still do to some degree.
      Words are just recognizable sounds, that's it. Our inner dialogue is nothing more than the residual sound of our imagery perception's reconstruction of whatever outside stimuli we've happen upon.
      Once I realized this, I then noticed my inner dialogue became less noisy and more focused. I literally was able to see sound as it happened, I've even watched it jump from person to person.
      I believe I'll stop commenting on now as I have just caught a wicked chill =/
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      Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
      what if the brain is like a advanced radio, tuning in to a field of potential thought?
      You are on the right track. Keep going.
      If thoughts are not our personal private property that explains why crossword puzzles are easier in the evening to solve. It means that thoughts are things. This means that all of our thoughts about ourselves and who we are are not really our thoughts. Indeed, many of our thoughts are put there by parents, teachers, politicians, television and radio, computers, scientists, experts, sisters, brothers, friends. And you would probably be challenged to have an original thought. The Alex Gray picture is very good, and Alex Gray knows what he is painting about. He is a friend of mine. And if only one group of people were able to telepathize it would be the creative people, you know, the artists and the musicians. In fact, good musicians when improvising together rely on telepathy often.
      Personally, I find clairvoyance more common, but I believe most people are clairvoyant and telepathic at least three times a day. At least my friends and I are. There is a class of people who have devoted their lives to opening up to that realm of potential thought. And they all act alike and are similar people. My teacher is telepathic and clairvoyant, Alex Gray is also (the artist of that image that was posted). Watch an interview on youtube of Alex Gray and you will see how a typical consciously telepathic person behaves. He is a good example, you can see it in his eyes. And of course, all consciously telepathic folks can recognize each other with just eye contact, no words necessary.

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      Our thoughts are not our own. Yet they are your own. Where do they come from? They come from what we see and experience. Perhaps we also take in other peoples thoughts. Perhaps we often share thoughts without even realizing it. If that was so, then maybe what we think isn't often our own. Maybe some feelings we get are not our own but others peoples feelings. where does a thought originate? do we truly create our own thoughts? maybe we don't. does it matter? what difference would it make? If thoughts may be placed in our minds. Perhaps other beings have the ability to control our minds. perhaps thats already happening. maybe you are being mind controlled on regular basis without even knowing. How would you know? How do you stop that? What thoughts are your own and what thoughts came from foreign sources? Its almost impossible to know. there is just way to much stuff going through your mind. Way to much being processed on a regular basis. But maybe you do have the potential to know what thoughts come from where? How would you go about that? You have to recognize the source of whats going through your mind. you must trace everything to its source to know. And cut yourself off to anything you don't want to be open too. Only you allow these connection of thoughts to be open in the first place. You simply have to choose which doors you want to shut. Where do your thoughts come from though? your own thoughts. How can you know things that there is know way you could have known. where does that come from? How can you see the future and then it happens? It comes from somewhere. This source is the source. The source of sources. The source of sources knows all. It is infinite intelligence. Tap into the source and you will know anything you would ever need to know. And the source will heal your soul. Always there just waiting for you to open the door.
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      I would be open to the probability that thoughts are a compilation of everything that has been mentioned. Thoughts are heavily influenced by experiences that are linked or branded with an emotional attachment, or anchor to them. Those emotionally branded experiences are then enhanced, diminished, shaped, or changed completely by things like media, social environment, physiological circumstances and environment, self-aware perception of all of the aforementioned, and lastly, simple proximity with other human beings capable of consciously directed thought.

      An ongoing series of studies at the Institute of HeartMath has been conducting case-studies on the affect of human proximity on brainwave frequencies, and even thought. If I am not mistaken, which I admittedly could be (as it's been ages since I've been to HeartMath,) in one particular study, an overwhelming number of tests in different scenarios favored the theory that humans in close proximity (whether or not they were aware of the other person) tended to have synchronized, or nearly synchronized brainwave activity. This may not be a big shock, or prove much, but people synchronize with brainwave activity around them.

      I find it interesting to see that someone mentioned musicians when discussing telepathy, or shared/borrowed thoughts. I think it was Unelias. I have been a musician for almost literally my entire life. I find that whether playing with friends I've known for years, or complete strangers, once we hit the "pocket" (musical term for when the groove reaches a place where it is locked in, and consistent,) members of the performance begin to improvise very precise, semi-random rhythmic, harmonic, or melodic patterns. After playing the same vamp for 20 minutes, people participating typically begin to improvise and create their own variations on the tune, and end up doing similar, if not the exact same things together, un-cued. This is particularly true of jazz music, and someone with a thorough understanding of both jazz theory (as in the literal study of notation, harmony, etc) and jazz philosophy (as in more concept-oriented) could even show specific examples of this happening, as surprisingly, it is extraordinarily common in live jazz.

      I will not attribute this to psychic phenomena, and I will not denounce the possibility, but it cannot be left to chance, because it is so mathematically improbable for things like that to happen, yet they are common amongst musicians. Anyone who is a musician will tell you that this happens- a lot. Unless you're a musician, it would not be possible to explain the feeling of it to you. Sometimes it is planned, many other times it is random, and theoretically unpredictable. So is this an example of synchronized brainwaves? I think so. Could it be something more? Perhaps. Or is "something more" and synchronization of brainwaves combined with unconscious schemata of each individual just leading to the same logical conclusion really the same thing?
      Last edited by Rainman; 07-22-2011 at 10:23 AM.
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      Sleeping Dragon juroara's Avatar
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      If anyone is interested, there is a good book called the Intention Experiment that talks about different scientific adventures into the human mind. That book will talk about experiments showing positive results. It'll also talk about the difficulty of setting up such experiments, and also the difficulties of analyzing the results.

      And since I can't copy and paste the book, I'm too lazy to quote it!

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      Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
      what if the brain is like a advanced radio, tuning in to a field of potential thought?
      So then who is creating the "radio waves" that brains are picking up Yuri?

      'What is war?...In a short sentence it may be summed up to be the combination and concentration of all the horrors, atrocities, crimes, and sufferings of which human nature on this globe is capable' - John Bright

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      They are artificial elementals, made more powerful by the number of people who identify with them and empower them with their consciousness. Originally, they are an unconscious idea created by anyone, but weak. They become conscious when they receive more power from more minds, or by somebody who has more insight becomes conscious of them and their affect on our experiences.
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      Drivel's Advocate Xaqaria's Avatar
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      Yes! Jung called them archetypes, and they have existed in an evolving form for as long as humanity has, and before that many of them (most likely) existed in other forms in the minds of other creatures. Some are coded in the structures of life itself, and very deeply they have formations set into the fabric of reality. They are patterns of information that span multiple physical and non-physical systems that grow through thought transfer. They (and we) are both the signal and the transmitters. Memes, ideas, 'common sense', human beings, mythologies, archetypes, avatars, gods, etc. These are all just gradations of the same thing.

      Edit; just read your post Rainman, what is "synchronization of brainwaves" if not telepathy? Possibly you don't want to call it telepathy because that word connotates something supernatural, but supernatural doesn't exist. If any 'spiritual' or 'supernatural' thing exists, it is something completely natural and mundane that we are able to intuit but not explain. Once we are able to explain it, the implications are still there but there is no longer any mystery.
      Last edited by Xaqaria; 07-26-2011 at 10:01 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut View Post
      They are artificial elementals, made more powerful by the number of people who identify with them and empower them with their consciousness. Originally, they are an unconscious idea created by anyone, but weak. They become conscious when they receive more power from more minds, or by somebody who has more insight becomes conscious of them and their affect on our experiences.
      So you think ideas are corporeal?
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      I do believe that people near each other, even if they're consciously unaware of each others' presence, can synchronize to some extent. Is it telepathy? Or something equally supernatural? Or could it just be that communication is actually far more subtle and complex than we realize?

      Communication is a lot more than just words we say to each other... it's also subtle unconscious body language and inflection. And possibly more. It's well known that some animals communicate via smell - such as ants, and predatory animals are supposed to literally be able to "smell your fear". So do pheromones or hormones carry subtle messages that we detect but are utterly unaware of consciously? Maybe if an aggressive person and a passive person are sitting in cubicles nearby but unaware of each other, they might both pick up on hormones the other is sending out and their brain waves might start to move toward each others' states?

      So I don't really see brainwave synchronization as good evidence of telepathy.

      And about jazz bands being able to riff spontaneously, obviously they're in very close sympathetic communication via the music they're creating - which is really a far deeper communication than via words. So no need for any kind of telepathy to explain that.

      So, while I doubt the existence of actual telepathy (at least as I understand it) I very readily accept that we communicate much more deeply than we realize and via subtle means that we're not consciously aware of. While to me this doesn't point necessarily toward telepathy or shared thoughts it does expand the realm of communication farther than we tend to believe is possible.
      Last edited by Darkmatters; 07-30-2011 at 01:43 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Darkmatters View Post
      I do believe that people near each other, even if they're consciously unaware of each others' presence, can synchronize to some extent.
      Ever live in a house full of women?

      Ba-dum ciiiiiiiiii
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