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    Thread: Highest Universe

    1. #1
      Member petersonad's Avatar
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      Highest Universe

      If there were infinite levels, planes, realms, and dimensions in a supernatural world or universe, what do you think would be at the "top"? In my opinion, the "top" would no longer be physical.
      Last edited by petersonad; 07-12-2011 at 04:40 AM.

    2. #2
      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
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      At the top? I think there would be lots and lots of LSD.
      Puffin, Meakel, tommo and 2 others like this.

    3. #3
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      If you go by superstring theory, then there would be 11 dimensions. You don't actually need an infinite amount of dimensions, because an infinite number of universes fit into the lower dimensions. So you have an infinite number of things but they still all fit within a finite number of dimensions. All of which are still physical, but take forms we can not really comprehend.

    4. #4
      A 40 Ton Pink Bear <span class='glow_EE82EE'>Meakel</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by petersonad View Post
      If there were infinite levels, planes, realms, and dimensions in a supernatural world or universe, what do you think would be at the "top"? In my opinion, the "top" would no longer be physical.
      You really have to define your question better. Are you referring to universes within eachother? Because that's different from dimensions. And what do you mean by supernatural? Levels? Planes? And doesn't having an 'inifinte' amount of them by definition mean there is no 'top'?
      Jen was 13 years old. A fairly normal girl. She spent a lot of time online.
      One day, she made a new friend. He liked the same bands, worried about the same subjects.
      They decided to meet at the local mall. She went. So did he.
      Only he wasn't in junior high.
      HE WAS A 1500 LB GRIZZLY BEAR.
      1 in 5 children online get eaten by wild bears. And you didn't even know bears could type.

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      LD's this year: ~7 tommo's Avatar
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      Supernatural = beyond natural.

      Beyond natural = doesn't exist.

      Thread is moot.

      /thread

    6. #6
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      Non-being. Non-physical occurs before the top. The very tippy, tippy top is the conscious and penetrating void that surrounds and consumes us. God is the darkness. Buah ha ha ha ha.

      Also Tommo nice fallacy but I'm afraid it's more like this

      Supernatural = above natural

      Unnatural = Doesn't exist

      Supernatural =/= unnatural
      Last edited by Omnis Dei; 07-14-2011 at 07:14 PM.
      Jeff777 likes this.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    7. #7
      A 40 Ton Pink Bear <span class='glow_EE82EE'>Meakel</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      Also Tommo nice fallacy but I'm afraid it's more like this

      Supernatural = above natural
      Above natural = beyond natural

      beyond natural = still doesn't exist
      Jen was 13 years old. A fairly normal girl. She spent a lot of time online.
      One day, she made a new friend. He liked the same bands, worried about the same subjects.
      They decided to meet at the local mall. She went. So did he.
      Only he wasn't in junior high.
      HE WAS A 1500 LB GRIZZLY BEAR.
      1 in 5 children online get eaten by wild bears. And you didn't even know bears could type.

    8. #8
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Meakel View Post
      Above natural = beyond natural

      beyond natural = still doesn't exist
      I'm afraid you're confining the world to words rather than using words to navigate the world. Why don't I just respond with this?

      Doesn't exist = Nothing

      Nothing = Natural

      Nature = non-existent.

      Or perhaps what you can do is this

      Supernature >= Nature

      Nothing <= Nature

      Everything <= Nature

      Your awareness on this subject <= Nature

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    9. #9
      A 40 Ton Pink Bear <span class='glow_EE82EE'>Meakel</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      I'm afraid you're confining the world to words rather than using words to navigate the world. Why don't I just respond with this?

      Doesn't exist = Nothing

      Nothing = Natural

      Nature = non-existent.

      Or perhaps what you can do is this

      Supernature >= Nature

      Nothing <= Nature

      Everything <= Nature

      Your awareness on this subject <= Nature
      Might you explain why nothing = natural?

      As for your latter argument, please don't resort to petty insults, I would prefer we kept this somewhat civil.
      Jen was 13 years old. A fairly normal girl. She spent a lot of time online.
      One day, she made a new friend. He liked the same bands, worried about the same subjects.
      They decided to meet at the local mall. She went. So did he.
      Only he wasn't in junior high.
      HE WAS A 1500 LB GRIZZLY BEAR.
      1 in 5 children online get eaten by wild bears. And you didn't even know bears could type.

    10. #10
      Member petersonad's Avatar
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      It's hard for to explain what I mean by the top. What are was trying to say is that once you reach a point of ascension where you feel that your pretty high, or high enough, what would it be like?

    11. #11
      A 40 Ton Pink Bear <span class='glow_EE82EE'>Meakel</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by petersonad View Post
      It's hard for to explain what I mean by the top. What are was trying to say is that once you reach a point of ascension where you feel that your pretty high, or high enough, what would it be like?
      Wait. Okay. Are we talking about this in terms of theoretical physics, spirituality, or recreational drug use?
      Jen was 13 years old. A fairly normal girl. She spent a lot of time online.
      One day, she made a new friend. He liked the same bands, worried about the same subjects.
      They decided to meet at the local mall. She went. So did he.
      Only he wasn't in junior high.
      HE WAS A 1500 LB GRIZZLY BEAR.
      1 in 5 children online get eaten by wild bears. And you didn't even know bears could type.

    12. #12
      Dream Guy ooflendoodle's Avatar
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      I'm no philosopher but it seems like your trying to use a description from whatever we're in right now, I'll say an earthly realm, to describe something that's not of this earthly realm, it's like trying to describe sight to someone who can't see at all.
      "For a long time it gave me nightmares, having to witness an injustice like that. It was a constant reminder of how unfair this world can be, I can still hear them taunting him. 'Silly Rabbit, Trix are for kids!'... How come they just couldn't give him some cereal?"

    13. #13
      Haunted by entropy. Achievements:
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      I think it would be Milla Jovovich's vagina.
      Jeff777 likes this.
      ---o--- my DCs say I'm dreamy.

    14. #14
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Meakel View Post
      Might you explain why nothing = natural?

      As for your latter argument, please don't resort to petty insults, I would prefer we kept this somewhat civil.
      I was not insulting you.

      If everything that exists is natural and nothing exists then nothing is natural. If nothing does not exist, it is still natural as non-existence.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    15. #15
      Member petersonad's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Meakel View Post
      Wait. Okay. Are we talking about this in terms of theoretical physics, spirituality, or recreational drug use?
      I'm basically asking for you to use your imagination. There may not be endless planes to ascend, but what would it be like if we could ascend that high. I'm speaking in terms of imagination.

    16. #16
      A 40 Ton Pink Bear <span class='glow_EE82EE'>Meakel</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      I was not insulting you.
      Your awareness on this subject <= Nature
      Yeah.

      But whatever, not the point.

      If everything that exists is natural and nothing exists then nothing is natural. If nothing does not exist, it is still natural as non-existence.
      Nothing doesn't exist. Nothing is the absence of existence.
      Jen was 13 years old. A fairly normal girl. She spent a lot of time online.
      One day, she made a new friend. He liked the same bands, worried about the same subjects.
      They decided to meet at the local mall. She went. So did he.
      Only he wasn't in junior high.
      HE WAS A 1500 LB GRIZZLY BEAR.
      1 in 5 children online get eaten by wild bears. And you didn't even know bears could type.

    17. #17
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      That's not what nothing is.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    18. #18
      A 40 Ton Pink Bear <span class='glow_EE82EE'>Meakel</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      That's not what nothing is.
      Educate me.
      Jen was 13 years old. A fairly normal girl. She spent a lot of time online.
      One day, she made a new friend. He liked the same bands, worried about the same subjects.
      They decided to meet at the local mall. She went. So did he.
      Only he wasn't in junior high.
      HE WAS A 1500 LB GRIZZLY BEAR.
      1 in 5 children online get eaten by wild bears. And you didn't even know bears could type.

    19. #19
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      You can't teach someone what nothing is. I suppose if you HAVE to use words to describe nothing, then you defined it well enough. But encasing the idea of nothing into words and assuming you understand what non-existence is because you can describe it inhibits your awareness.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    20. #20
      A 40 Ton Pink Bear <span class='glow_EE82EE'>Meakel</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      You can't teach someone what nothing is. I suppose if you HAVE to use words to describe nothing, then you defined it well enough. But encasing the idea of nothing into words and assuming you understand what non-existence is because you can describe it inhibits your awareness.
      Oh, so now we're talking about linguistic epistemology. Great.

      Back to the original point, you said nothing is natural so nature doesn't exist? That makes no sense. All I'm asking you to do, is explain your rather vague and ambiguous post. Explain to me what non-existence is then. What more am I missing? Don't hide behind this fluff. Tell me what YOU think nothing is so that we can have a discussion about it. Telling me it's this unknowable concept is pointless. I understand epistemology, I know what the limitations of words are, and attempting to use it in an argument is pointless. I could argue the same point in every single other discussion and it would serve no purpose.
      Last edited by Meakel; 07-15-2011 at 03:14 AM.
      Jen was 13 years old. A fairly normal girl. She spent a lot of time online.
      One day, she made a new friend. He liked the same bands, worried about the same subjects.
      They decided to meet at the local mall. She went. So did he.
      Only he wasn't in junior high.
      HE WAS A 1500 LB GRIZZLY BEAR.
      1 in 5 children online get eaten by wild bears. And you didn't even know bears could type.

    21. #21
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      You claim to understand the limitation of words but you don't show any inclination to think deeper than the surface value of the arguments proposed. I made that argument just to show how easily words with loose definitions can be tossed around to make fallacious logic. Let me attempt to exemplify this for you. The most accurate way of putting "You're knowledge on the subject <= Nature," would have been "Our knowledge on the subject..." But I didn't, I put it all on you. You took it offensively, as is natural, but nothing I said is actually offensive. You can only HOPE your knowledge on ANYTHING is less than or equal to nature. I was merely stating fact that every human being must digest. Unfortunately we don't know everything. Worse yet, we don't know anything. If we hope to understand anything, though, first we must postulate that more is than just what exists.

      All knowledge is removed by the very existence of nothing. This is a paradox but I'm not going to explain it, explaining nothing is like trying to paint a sound.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    22. #22
      A 40 Ton Pink Bear <span class='glow_EE82EE'>Meakel</span>'s Avatar
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      I'm not still worried about the whole 'your knowledge' thing, I'm past it. But don't attempt to rationalize it by showing my how 'easily loose definitions can be tossed around'. And 'putting it all on me', actually yes that does kind of make it offensive.

      But that's done.

      I feel like what were originally discussing as gotten very very muddled up. Let's start over. What I'm trying to say, is that there is no such thing as the supernatural. Supernatural things do not exist. Now your point?
      Jen was 13 years old. A fairly normal girl. She spent a lot of time online.
      One day, she made a new friend. He liked the same bands, worried about the same subjects.
      They decided to meet at the local mall. She went. So did he.
      Only he wasn't in junior high.
      HE WAS A 1500 LB GRIZZLY BEAR.
      1 in 5 children online get eaten by wild bears. And you didn't even know bears could type.

    23. #23
      LD's this year: ~7 tommo's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      Also Tommo nice fallacy but I'm afraid it's more like this

      Supernatural = above natural

      Unnatural = Doesn't exist

      Supernatural =/= unnatural
      Nope... No I definitely had it correct. As meakel said.

      If you say something is beyond nature, or above or whatever.... greater than nature. You are saying it doesn't exist.

      Nature is EVERYTHING that exists.

      If you say "There is a SUPERnatural ball" It means you are saying there is a ball outside of nature.
      BUT, NATURE IS EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS. So that ball is really just another part of nature.

      You can't argue that. It's titanium logic.

    24. #24
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      I was trying to bring things back to the OPs topic but very well.

      The word we have to observe in detail here is nature. We can describe this as all things that have come to pass naturally. The logical leap is that everything that occurs is natural. But if everything is natural anyways, there does not need to be a word for it in the first place. The question is, if something is not natural what else could it possibly be? You seem to be stating there is nothing that is not natural. I'm stating I can describe nothing that is not natural.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    25. #25
      LD's this year: ~7 tommo's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      I was trying to bring things back to the OPs topic but very well.

      The word we have to observe in detail here is nature. We can describe this as all things that have come to pass naturally. The logical leap is that everything that occurs is natural. But if everything is natural anyways, there does not need to be a word for it in the first place.
      By that logic, there doesn't need to be a word "everything".

      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      The question is, if something is not natural what else could it possibly be? (WHAT? That is not the question at all.)
      You seem to be stating there is nothing that is not natural. I'm stating I can describe nothing that is not natural.
      You can describe nothing that is not natural because there is nothing that is not natural.

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