I found a new link that looks very relevant to the topic. I haven't read it yet, but thought I'd share it before I set aside enough time to read it. |
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Will determinism drive us crazy, or undermine an open society? |
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I found a new link that looks very relevant to the topic. I haven't read it yet, but thought I'd share it before I set aside enough time to read it. |
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I want to read the links, but it's late and I need to crawl off now and get some shuteye. I'll dig in tomorrow when I'm all fresh as a daisy. |
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Insanity? I find the idea liberating. |
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Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
Determinism isn't a problem, because it doesn't really say anything. It just says everything is caused by the stuff before it. That is obvious, and doesn't really effect if there is free will or peoples sense of self. People think free will and determinism conflict but they are actually work well together. If everyone acted randomly, there would be no free will. Free will only works in a determinist or at least semi determinist world. |
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This is the elaboration I had in mind. Determinism (along with other realizations) enable people to remove this illusory division they have between themselves and their experience. Rather than trying to pinpoint a specific identity, they allow themselves to be a form that's really a collection of forms. |
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Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
The multiple personality disorder is still apart of you, but a part that you should want to get rid of. People are always changing, and it is obvious that as you change you want to get rid of the undesirable elements of yourself. Be it, exercising to lose a little weight or taking medication to resolve serious health issues. |
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This is just a different way of defining the self that encompasses all the different selves within us. But, I think that since we can only experience one (smaller) "self" at a time, then it is "better" to look at our mind as a collection of selves rather than one unified mind. |
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You guys r smart |
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Essentially, what I did was let multiple selves compete for position in my mind because I thought that my current "self" (thought pattern) was "illusory" and I should try to get let go of it. Of course, I did this in the course of day-to-day activity which probably wasn't very smart. From what I've read the "self" is quite useful on a day-to-day basis. So, basically I think I need to attain the enlightenment/ego-death described on the egodeath.com website. But, i'm still wondering if one can persist in that state. Put in other words, can we function on a day to day basis without our "selves"? |
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Rather than think of illusions as things that are not real they're really things we are perceiving in ways other than as they actually are. Buddhists often teach fallible, temporary truths that act as gateways in order for people to access the reality behind the lesson. This "collection of selves" is such a lesson. It's not what reality actually is, but it's a helpful platform to climb in order to understand the true nature of reality. |
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Last edited by Omnis Dei; 09-12-2011 at 03:58 AM.
Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
Illusions are perceptions of things, different than what they actually look like? If what we perceive is different from the actuality of an entity, then what we perceive is a non-actual entity. An entity that is non-actual is not real. Therefore, illusions are not real. |
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Last edited by lilthugdollaz; 09-12-2011 at 05:20 AM.
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Last edited by Darkmatters; 09-12-2011 at 05:34 AM.
Acting on determinism is a fallacy, as is the idea that determinism implies no morality and hence that humans should somehow become despondent. |
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Wow, thanks for posting about Egodeath.com! I just read the introductory page and am still stunned by it. Entheogens used in early Christian initiations? I had never heard of it, but it makes perfect sense. But what they're talking about there, at least from what I've seen so far, is achieving the dissociative state rarely (or only once - in the initiation rites) and experiencing the ecstatic vision state known as ego death. Then from that experience you gain a new perspective - you're freed form the illusion that the ego is in control. Afterwards you would carry the memory of these revelations with you - you would not experience the revelatory state in normal day-to-day circumstances but only in a controlled ritual in a safe environment (similar to shamanic ceremonies and sweat lodges). |
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Illusions are those perceptions that, when examined thoroughly and honestly, will cease to be true. Because our perceptions of the world is presented through a limited biological (and psychological) lens; they are only true only to that extent, and they are only experienced to that extent. The downside is that it cannot see the bigger picture; it cannot immediately detect actual contexts, rationally. It needs to be spiritually sensitive and intuitive to do this fast, or it needs a thorough explanation. As this happens, we not only understand something properly, but the wisdom is that we are less likely to believe in literal thoughts and fresh beliefs; less likely to be unhappy because we are not subject to believing all our instinctual and cramped perceptions. |
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Last edited by really; 09-12-2011 at 03:57 PM.
The Ultimate Lucid Mp3 Thread Link
Mp3 track available here (02/2015): http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/36261038/file.html
Whether or not the X Factor that trumps causality is a creative consciousness, the theory of causality is still limited to our limited perception and the logic is incomplete. Logic leads us to conclude that the world is run purely by Causality but because we cannot comprehend a universe existing where Causality works as the only instrument, we are therefore not comprehending the whole picture here. |
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Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
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I agree with the heart of your idea, but I think modern theories on physics are integral with spirituality. That being said, that still doesn't make spiritual impulses free of causation. Even if there are influences existing in more metaphysical forms they still arose from cause. Infinity not only makes sense, it becomes the only option to the logical mind. However, comprehending what that infinity means completely changes one's perception of causality and time. |
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Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
Your ego and sense of self isn't an illusion, it is the result of higher, complex brain functions and thought. Ego death is basically removing complex thought and experiencing a lower level of conciousness. Which is why people who talk about ego death often use drugs that hinder high brain functions. |
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