I have a lot of proof, but the main one is |
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"Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi. But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi." (quoted from wikipedia) |
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I have a lot of proof, but the main one is |
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We can't know anything 'for certain', but that doesn't mean we can't be fairly certain. Dreaming being an illusion, and waking life being real, is the best explanation for the effects we perceive, so it's more likely true and therefore more worth believing. |
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We also have a waking life explanation for dreams in terms of neurology, psychology, etc. There's not much to suggest that dreams are independent of waking life reality. |
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Of course we also know that the signals that reach the brain when we're dreaming are EXACTLY the same as the signals that reach it when we're awake - only real difference being that the dreaming signals are generated from within and the waking life signals come in through our senses. So while it's true that waking life has a consistency and logic that dream life lacks, we can still only connect with the world through those very same signals that we dream through. We just take it on faith that what's coming in is actually a truthful recreation of what's actually 'out there'. |
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Obviously our senses are only the tip of the iceberg, but show consistent patterns nonetheless. Gotta be some reason why. |
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Well yes, we assume that, and of course there's a vast preponderance of alignments between various senses and concepts - example, if I see a chair and I try to sit in it, I don't fall - I can sit. If I call someone and give them directions to my house they can find their way here.. these alignments do seem to indicate that what we experience of the waking world is consistent and 'real'. |
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Last edited by Darkmatters; 12-03-2011 at 08:52 PM.
I don't really see the cheapening of our experience by it being made up of electrical impulses, electromagnetism permeates all of nature, and it's our window into the rest of it. The suggestion that existence might just be a brain with electrical impulses somehow playing on it with a mind of it's own and built in "logical circuitry" that contains the laws of physics implies that the experience of other people is just that, it disregards the observation of other minds, other people, in the same situation as you, as they would just be electrical impulses on the (your) brain. In waking life we can look at a big bright ball in the sky and know it's not just electrical signals. We can prove this by finding out, through our sense of mathematics, that we evolved from a process just like that, it is necessary for our existence. How can this just be build in "logical circuitry" that your brain kicks in when your "awake" when other people confirm this objective connection, unless they are just electrical impulses in a universe that solely consists of your brain? |
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Whoah there - you're assuming some things I never said!! |
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We can be fairly certain that our experiences of both dreams and waking life arise from extant phenomena. We can also be fairly certain that our experiences of both seemingly external phenomena and the self to which they become apparent arise substantially from our perceptive processes, and not from fixed qualities of either the object or subject, regardless of whether we are waking or dreaming. |
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If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama
All of my assumptions stemmed from this suggestion |
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Implied - exactly!! |
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I know that we have science to present a body of evidence that there is a "real" world outside our heads |
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If our awake senses aren't objective receivers of an external reality, then why can two people look at the same event and agree upon exactly what happened? |
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How can you prove there's another person? |
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My senses, the consistent patterns they reveal, and the overall situation they imply (that we are members of a species of life that is the product of evolution). Considering that I am the only mind that exists, and other people are only consistent patterns it creates doesn't make sense to me considering our similarity. It would seem much more likely that we are in the same situation, and share a mutual realism. |
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Last edited by Wayfaerer; 12-06-2011 at 04:34 AM.
Our sense are not "objective receivers of an external reality." We know that much objectively |
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If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama
High five Tausaur!! |
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Last edited by Darkmatters; 12-06-2011 at 05:23 AM.
What do you mean by this? |
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Last edited by Wayfaerer; 12-06-2011 at 05:33 AM.
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Wayfaerer seems to need logic in his/her life. |
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Exactly.......in......which sense? |
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