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    Thread: Empathy

    1. #1
      Member Nhuc's Avatar
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      Empathy

      If empathy leads to compassion
      And logic leads to knowledge which leads to wisdom

      And compassion + Wisdom leads to divinity

      And if, reasoning led to ideas, which then led to thoughts, which brought drive which gave action

      And through action we acheive higher

      Does, compassion + wisdom + higher achievement = god?

      So then, what does perfect (or flawless) empathy, logic, and, reasoning lead to?

      Discuss.

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      Evolventity and Nhuc like this.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Nhuc View Post
      If empathy leads to compassion
      And logic leads to knowledge which leads to wisdom

      And compassion + Wisdom leads to divinity

      And if, reasoning led to ideas, which then led to thoughts, which brought drive which gave action

      And through action we acheive higher

      Does, compassion + wisdom + higher achievement = god?

      So then, what does perfect (or flawless) empathy, logic, and, reasoning lead to?

      Discuss.
      I will refer to your avatar for my answer....
      ShadowOfSelf and Solarflare like this.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Seroquel View Post

      oh that is just beautiful <#

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      <span class='glow_008000'>Linkzelda</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nhuc View Post
      If empathy leads to compassion
      And logic leads to knowledge which leads to wisdom

      And compassion + Wisdom leads to divinity

      And if, reasoning led to ideas, which then led to thoughts, which brought drive which gave action

      And through action we acheive higher

      Does, compassion + wisdom + higher achievement = god?

      So then, what does perfect (or flawless) empathy, logic, and, reasoning lead to?

      Discuss.
      If empathy leads to compassion, that means there's a greater potential for hatred. There's only so much effort a person can put in trying to feel sorry for one person, or feeling sorry for them. Sometimes logic does not lead to knowledge, because everyone has some kind of strong conviction or set of convictions that they truly believe to the point that it becomes a false reality to them. Wisdom does not always lead to divinity because it can lead towards more hatred and having the feeling of being superior to others.

      It's hard remaining a saint in this world, it's almost impossible to not have some sort of blemish on your conscience. Those who avoid this are the ones who are shallow and naive, they will never understand the feeling of losing someone you love, the feeling of being thoughtful to a friend. Reasoning does not always lead to ideas, it can lead to more questions, diluting one's competence in defining a tangible reality.

      You can't reach "divinity" and maintain it for long, especially when hypocrisy starts to become tempting each time you conform to it, as long as purity is constantly being stained with black ink on a white paper, it will gradually shift from it, and demand that its innocence should be destroyed.

      I guess an ideal and perfect path that would occur is feeling a sense of warmth from others, feeling their pains and sorrows, and trying to your best to help those who need you.

      It would involve a splitting of your whole being, it's difficult trying to do in as a whole because it's hard shifting from one mentality to another without feeling like you don't know who you are as a person.


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      I like your answer, and I want to pose a question towards you from reading your last sentance.

      What if that is exactly what one does? that everything comes form the outside, if someone was the perfect conduit, one who had no emotions, or sentiments, no moral compass, but could only reflect on other emotions, ideals, or sense of right and wrong, they could only show emotion by mimicing those around them and thier memories of others displaying it, numb themselves, but because of it, they understand it all the better.
      What if one was the center of the wheel.

    7. #7
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      Then they would just be some kind of vessel for expressing and mimicking those emotions I guess. I doubt a person would achieve a status of being on the center of this "wheel" without acknowledging that splitting the other sides of themselves and trying to grieve for them of their sins is necessary for solving the paradox of committing those same sins to achieve that same state of "divinity."

      It is really hard to have that type of control, and you'll probably be driven to insanity from that time of extreme dissociation. Unless you take the time to become some kind of lucid master and dissociate parts of your personality slowly in your dreams, and try to understand then more. And even if you can do that, you might lose a sense of reality.

      That's all I have, sorry.
      Last edited by Linkzelda41; 03-11-2012 at 11:44 AM.

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      Empathy manifests as a byproduct, a secondary emotion, that I think is a consequence of primal thought, and beat to form only through reason and logic. Otherwise known as emotional intelligence, or an emotive intention.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Nhuc View Post
      So then, what does perfect (or flawless) empathy, logic, and, reasoning lead to?

      This doesn't seem possible. By your wording, having perfection in any of these would exclude the other two.

      As perfection is subjective, achieving this state would only be useful for the individual, and could never apply to those around them.

      Discuss.
      Quote Originally Posted by Linkzelda View Post
      If empathy leads to compassion, that means there's a greater potential for hatred. There's only so much effort a person can put in trying to feel sorry for one person, or feeling sorry for them. Sometimes logic does not lead to knowledge, because everyone has some kind of strong conviction or set of convictions that they truly believe to the point that it becomes a false reality to them. Wisdom does not always lead to divinity because it can lead towards more hatred and having the feeling of being superior to others.
      Empathy doesn't mean feeling sorry for someone, it means understanding the feelings of others by experience. Sympathy would encompass feeling sorry for others but reaching the limit you expressed.


      You are right, logic does not always lead to knowledge. Logic is merely a method for making choices.


      Still, if one could achieve that higher state of empathy, logic, and reasoning, all in one, it would imply evolution within an individual beyond what humans actually experience. We all become more or less empathic over time, but with experience it often becomes easier to empathize with others. Experiences will also lead to a better form of logic, so choices are more likely to be useful to the individual. Same for reasoning.

      The problem is that all of these qualities are subjective, based on the experiences of the individual feeling them. The only way to achieve perfection in all three of these areas would be to have an individual capable of cognitive thinking processes placed in their own bubble universe with no one else to influence them. In this reality they would experience perfection for every thought, as there would be no one to contradict them or negatively influence them.

      Perfection = being alone
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      empathy above all else. in empathy, in being compassionate and identifying with our neighbours, we have no potential for harm or hatred. when everything we do/say/think is prefaced with "how do they feel/think about this?" then there's no room for vilification.

      empathy/understanding/logic above all else. then we can start striving for perfection, or some ridiculous ideal we wanna name
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    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by no-Name View Post
      empathy above all else. in empathy, in being compassionate and identifying with our neighbours, we have no potential for harm or hatred. when everything we do/say/think is prefaced with "how do they feel/think about this?" then there's no room for vilification.

      empathy/understanding/logic above all else. then we can start striving for perfection, or some ridiculous ideal we wanna name
      http://youtu.be/ifJcHfppUew?t=6m12s

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      Well I don't know that I completely agree with the concept at all. For example, assume your logic is incorrect, it is still logic, just contrary to the popular belief or what actually happens. If that logic becomes knowledge. Then are you telling me THAT is wisdom?

      Then I completely disagree with the fact that simply compassion and wisdom = divinity. Divinity is "being of, from, like a god or A god." there are plenty of people we have deemed wise and compassionate. Solomon tends to be a good example. But he was no god. Even then, assuming Solomon wasn't Both those things. That wouldn't simply make him a god. No two mortal things could possibly create an immortal. So I disagree with the theory entirely
      I'm always happy.

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      Solomon was considered wise for his thoughts, but in deed he failed just as bad as any other human. His lack of wisdom in the areas of love and wealth led God to be mad at him and split the kingdom upon his death.

      Still...seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines...sounds like he at least enjoyed himself.

      Definitely far from perfect, and unlikely empathic.
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      Quote Originally Posted by melanieb View Post
      Solomon was considered wise for his thoughts, but in deed he failed just as bad as any other human. His lack of wisdom in the areas of love and wealth led God to be mad at him and split the kingdom upon his death.

      Still...seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines...sounds like he at least enjoyed himself.

      Definitely far from perfect, and unlikely empathic.
      Sure i'll buy that. Solomon maybe WASN'T both those things. But my question still stands let's assume that there WAS a man who was deemed wise and compassionate. Why would that make him a god? For the simple fact that a formula told us that wisdom + compassion makes a god? Once again, it seems like its just impossible to take things perceived on this world and make them into something we cant truly perceive which is god.
      I'm always happy.

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      We're already gods with or without wisdom and compassion, wisdom and compassion simply enable us to use our power in a more constructive way
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      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      Those things you mention above in themselves would not make someone god because to be god implies that the person is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscience.

      Said persons existence would be impossible, unless they where god and even then, does wisdom as in moral wisdom or even compassion apply to god, those things might be only a creation of the mind.

      Therefor the logical viewpoint is that those three things would make someone god because it would be impossible to have those and not be god who has the three omnis i mentioned above.

      But in a reality of thought, in which the concept of perfection without the three omis i mentioned existing, then no said person would not be god, meerly someone who is very aware of the universe itself without being god.

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      Quote Originally Posted by melanieb View Post
      Definitely far from perfect, and unlikely empathic.
      The mark of an empath should not rely on one's own conception of God, or even necessarily operate under the mindset that it exists, since sainthood does not imply that someone is truly empathic or God-like but that they are simplly in touch with the best intentions for humanity as a whole. Empathy is transactional, and depends soley on the psyche of those involved, but to say that either mind is "good" or "bad" would be naive in the extreme. These are characteristics distinguished from the intellect and lies, as William James put it, "in our differing susceptibilities of emotional excitement, and in the different impulses and inhibitions which bring in their train." What he's talking about is our moral and practical attitude at any given time is always the result of two separate forces within us; impulse pushing us one way and obstructions and inhibitions holding us back.

      The faculty for empathy in the healthy mind does not mean the same thing for the unhealthy, and it is in the absorption and moral interpretation of those emotions that might distinguish someones "Godliness" from another.

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