Originally Posted by Universal Mind
You have yet to tell me what two is, and I have asked you many times now. You told me what we do with numbers in general, but even that was vague. You said they are a tool we use for cutting the universe up in a way that we can understand it better, but you didn't say how. What is two?
I already told you that I'm not going to define two. It can be done in multiple ways, none of which are at all relavent.
We didn't add them to the list. They were already on it. Numbers are principles, and they are not made of matter. They can be subdivided into other numbers, but they are principles and not physical objects. They still exist.
What is two? Explain its numerical nature in terms other than other numerical natures. I am not looking for "one less than three" or anything like that. I am using two as an example of a number to get a perspective on what numbers are, so explain what two is without using another number to define it. You already said it is real. So.... What is it?
You can ask me to define two but you can't ask me to do it without referring to other numbers. What does it matter? Would it prove some point either way if I do or do not refer to other numbers in defining it? Also, what do you mean by "numerical nature"? Is that real too? Why don't you define two without referring to other numbers. If you did that in a satisfactory way, it would probably make me look like a real dumbass.
@Xei
As far as information goes, I would regard it as answers to questions. A question imposes a partition on the set of possible universes (as long as each can only assume one state simultaneously) with one section containing all the universes which are in a state that yields a particular answer to a question.
For example, think of our universes as being ordered sets of six symbols, five of which are 0 and one of which is 1. So they'll be something like 010000, 001000 and so on. There are six such universes. Take the question "Is the 1 in the first three spots?" This partitions the universe into the "yes" partition and the "no" partition, i.e {100000, 010000, 001000} and {000100, 000010, 000001}. So we could call it a binary question. Likewise for "Is the 1 in the first spot?"
As we ask questions, we are taking the intersection of the partitions on possible universes induced by those questions.
So I would regard information as being a set of possible universes that is kept as the "running" intersection induced by various questions.
We can think of usless questions as being those such that one partition induced by it contains that running intersection. For example, if we ask "Is the 1 in the first three spots" and get the answer yes, then we know that we're in one of the universes {100000, 010000, 001000}. The question "Is the 1 in the fourth spot" creates the partions {100000, 010000, 001000, 000010, 000001} and {000100}. The first partition contains our running intersection and so it's useless to ask "Is the 1 in the fourth spot?" after asking "is the 1 in the first three spots?" and getting a positive answer. Had we gotten a negative answer, then it would be useful and {0001000, 000010, 000001} intersects with but is not contained by {000010}.
This is an example of the general fact that the set of possible answers to a question is determined by what is already known. In this formalism, the set of possible answers to a question is the set of its partitions that intersect our running intersection. A question becomes useless when only one of its answers intersect our running partition because we can regard the answer as being known.
Is that at all clear?


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