I'm simply trying to show the reason I brought it up, because it seemed like you missed the point.
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I'm simply trying to show the reason I brought it up, because it seemed like you missed the point.
Gorillas have much bigger canine teeth than yours, and don't eat meat. Canines in primates evolve as weapons for intra-sexual competition.
I'll be plain and simple irrespective of how inconsiderate it will be.
I like eating meat more than I care about how it is 'farmed'. This doesn't mean I don't care. In fact my view is pretty much everyone's view for people who eat meat.
I'm interested in conversations like this more so for why people have given up meat, rather than why meat eaters should give up.
My question is: if animals were never 'farmed' in bulk in cruel and disgusting ways, would you vegetarians still be eating meat? If you say no, then it stands to reason why it was easy for you to give up meat, and yet not for me and others. And then, I wish to know your real reason.
If the situation in animal production was significantly less horrifying, I would still be eating meat. I know there are alternatives, but I needed a general and quick response when I really saw how bad it was. It was easier than I imagined it would be and I have experienced no repercussions to my health or energy levels, so it kind of stuck.
Admittedly, I've adopted, experimentally, a fresh food lifestyle for 3 weeks, which more or less contained no dairy, bread etc, or meat (except fresh fish), and I felt incredibly lucid, awake, and full of energy. Aside from the fact that I really desired meat, it wasn't practical enough for me: constant shopping to keep stuff fresh, needed to consume far more to take in enough calories, when out and about, there wasn't much I could buy on the go that fitted that lifestyle, and it was expensive.
Was an amazing experience though. Truly. I guess what I'm getting at, is that if I could get over the problems I outlined, then I wouldn't give up meat for meat's sake. It'd have to be dairy and bread etc too.... for it then gives me something positive to keep me in that lifestyle. Giving up meat for the sake of conscience isn't enough for me.... unless I knew it could, or had some potential to, evoke a change. I don't see it as the answer; I don't see it having any potential to make a difference.
I actually quite agree. I actually don't believe everyone should be a vegetarian. It is a personal choice. I heard one study that showed vegetarians who choose to not eat meat for an ethical reason are more likely to stick with it than those who do it for health reasons. However, I think both the globe and our health could benefit if everyone at least reduced their meat consumption.
Although there are several factors that I feel support my reasons for being vegetarian, my main motivation is a personal ethical one. I don't want to inflict suffering or death on any being or creature unnecessarily. So even if animals were not 'farmed' in bulk, I still would not eat meat. And yes, it was fairly easy for me to give up meat. I've never really 'craved' meat. I agree that others may have a harder time giving up meat than I did. My responses aren't aimed at converting meat eaters - I just wish to support and motivate those who choose to give it up or may be considering it.
Just one minor point: when anyone does something for health reasons, I suspect the benefit cannot be strongly felt subjectively, but strongly observed objectively. That is, generally, people do not feel any different, and so feel little motivation irrespective of what the tests show. Strangely, when I undertook a fresh food lifestyle, as outlined above, there were clear subjective differences... The best way for me to characterise, and summarise, the experience would be for someone to compare how it feels after a bad nights sleep with little sleeping hours to that well rested state that tends to elude us. It was remarkable.
The only problem is that I feel like attributing that to not consuming dairy and grains than to meat. I'll have to try it again sometime, say, without meat. Or a diet just without meat.
If you don't eat dairy or grains, that leaves just fruits/vegetables and meat. Are those the only things you eat?
I feel much better if I do eat grains, as long as they are not bleached. Bleached grains (bleached wheat flour, refined sugar, bleached rice) are poison to my system, and I think they are poison to most people's systems. But good grains make me feel healthier and more energetic.
I'll go for the very basic and simple explanation: plant food isn't widely available during the winter months...hmm *looks around, desperate for food* 'Oh hello, fellow animal....that's quite a breast you have there. Mind if I take a nibble? ....You do? Too bloody late'. NOMNOMNOM.
I don't now. But it was a 3 week experiment....I still consumed legumes and nuts for added protein. I was eating a lot of bananas and avocados mostly, and sashimi.
This effect I felt wasn't some sort of: 'oh yeah, I think I feel better, healthier'. It was an unusually clear mind, much better short-term memory, and I was full of motivation. I dare say I even spoke faster.
I'm quite sure grains make me feel sluggish (have to test - but the point was a fresh food lifestyle, no processing allowed)....and I have minor difficulties digesting milk products (get stomach cramp).
As a new vegetarian I will express my reasons:
I imagine a world without slaughter houses and I ask myself: Would I personally kill a cow/chicken/rabbit/lamb/fish,etc for the purpose of eating it?
My answer: No.
Why? I feel compassion towards these animals because they are alive just like me. I don't have that predator instinct. I don't NEED that predator instinct because we have evolved enough as a species and a culture to be conscious enough to make choices like this.
I do not go so far as to weigh their intelligence levels in order to justify my choice to be a vegetarian. That concept doesn't really make sense to me. Why eat something I consider to be "stupid"? That is on par with "why eat something when it's last emotion was pure terror"? (See the phrase "You are what you eat")
I was a meat eater with a guilty conscience for a really long time before I became fully veg.
I sleep better now.
If I stopped eating meat today, and because of it all slaughter houses were shutdown tomorrow, I would totally do it. But that isn't the case. Since my choice won't have any effect there is no reason I should quit. I enjoy eating meat, I get a lot of amino acids out of meat that are difficult and expensive to get elsewhere, and I don't have to limit my restaurant choices. I completely agree that the cruelty that goes on in slaughter houses is wrong, but my choices won't change anything so I might as well keep things simple.
However you are still partially responsible. If you find yourself with a group of people who happen to be beating a complete stranger, does the fact that your stopping won't end the violence mean that you shouldn't stop, since it won't make much difference?
Your choice does have a direct effect, even if you don't see it immediately. It has a number of effects actually but I'm too lazy to write them all out. Most obvious though is that if you don't eat those animals, less animals will be killed. Several hundred less chickens will be killed.
And if you enjoy eating meat that's fine too in my opinion. But eat less of it and buy free range. Buying free range might have even more of an effect. It's true that people will likely never stop eating meat as a whole, but it would be very possible for us to get all of our meat from free range animals. This would dramatically reduce the amount of suffering involved. I dunno if you've looked at the number of chickens who live their entire lives in cages just so we can eat them. Something like 8 billion a year.
I think the problem is that some people see this statistically, and others see it by a sort of case by case basis. Some see that saving 1 chicken is almost equivalent to saving 1 human - important. However, others see that saving 1 chicken is equivalent to saving 1 dollar when you're a millionaire - unimportant. So the question is, why do some people value the life of unseen, individual animals of an extremely large colony and others don't?
Relating it to the money analogy, such a millionaire wouldn't care about a few dollars.... until he's almost broke, then he will. And the corresponding people won't care about organisms of which there are an apparently endless supply of (whether real or imagined). I truly think people are seeing things, like chickens, in this way.
They see them as objects for their use rather than as sentient creatures that have experiences.
Supply and demand. If less people are buying meat there's gonna be less demand for it. Even if it doesn't make a very visible difference, it still changes things. If people all around the world all started eating the amount of meat we eat in america, the amount of animals killed would drastically increase. This is even starting to happen as china and india build stronger economies. Conversely, if people in america started eating less meat the amount produced will go down. You don't even have to stop eating meat to create change.
http://media.treehugger.com/assets/i...schinameat.PNG
You sir, have no idea what you're talking about.... You just lost all credibility with that post....
Jesus, what happened in the 1980s in China? ;o