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    Thread: The Illusion of Consciousness, Identity, Choice and Control

    1. #51
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      Quote Originally Posted by greenhavoc View Post
      This two statements seem eerily similar to me.
      I am not attempting to say your translation is wrong and mine is right. I am simply trying to find a translation free of God's misleading connotations. I am glad you have found your own way to this. I have also found mine. I just wish I could live there, rather than merely catch glimpses. But I figure as long as I'm catching glimpses, I can share my process for the hope someone finds it beneficial.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      You wouldn't know if you were living there, though. It would be as if you never even existed. Why would you want that?

    3. #53
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      Well now you've got me thinking you're trying to stuff my idea into your definition of God and failing to grasp it.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    4. #54
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      The "AM" is One-Being Subtly Extended-Out into billions of bodies.

      Quote Originally Posted by greenhavoc View Post
      You wouldn't know if you were living there, though. It would be as if you never even existed. Why would you want that?
      No, Greenhavoc

      Its totally not that.

      For several hours after my enlightenment (age 15), I was subtly aware of every living being for a two mile bubble. It was so subtle that I missed it till it had shrunk to a 2 mile 3D radius.

      When I became aware that I was every being, including my oun body, for that amazing distance from my body, I thought I was still expanding. Sadly after another hour or so I realised that the experience was shrinking.

      Finally my ego, my sense of "I" was back and "it" was over.

      It felt like noise increased and increased til I was a lonely, lonely, "I" once again. The noise seperated me from what I truely am.

      The "AM" is one "Being" in billions of bodies.


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    5. #55
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      Quote Originally Posted by debrajane View Post

      No, Greenhavoc

      Its totally not that.

      For several hours after my enlightenment (age 15), I was subtly aware of every living being for a two mile bubble. It was so subtle that I missed it till it had shrunk to a 2 mile 3D radius.

      When I became aware that I was every being, including my oun body, for that amazing distance from my body, I thought I was still expanding. Sadly after another hour or so I realised that the experience was shrinking.

      Finally my ego, my sense of "I" was back and "it" was over.

      It felt like noise increased and increased til I was a lonely, lonely, "I" once again. The noise seperated me from what I truely am.

      The "AM" is one "Being" in billions of bodies.
      Is anyone else utterly, utterly confused by this?
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    6. #56
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      Quote Originally Posted by moSh View Post
      Is anyone else utterly, utterly confused by this?
      Naa, just you. We understand exactly what she means.
      moSh likes this.

      Who looks outside, dreams;
      who looks inside, awakes.

      - Carl Jung

    7. #57
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      Bottom line being just because you associate primarily with space rather than objects, that doesn't make the objects go away. Just because I see my self from a position of Self that doesn't mean I'm not also my self, I simply no longer position my perspective on the world from the standpoint of my personality and judgments. My primary way of looking at reality is no longer how I think about reality. My primary way of looking at reality is equanimity, and the judgments become secondary to that.
      Last edited by Omnis Dei; 07-05-2012 at 06:52 PM.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      Well now you've got me thinking you're trying to stuff my idea into your definition of God and failing to grasp it.
      Our definitions are the same, I just feel more comfortable giving it a name. You didn't answer my question, either: You wouldn't know if you were living there, though. It would be as if you never even existed. Why would you want that?

      If you, as in the you reading this response right now isn't true awareness, then of what use are you? Once you have gotten rid of it, what are you left with if not God; awareness? Still failing, Dei?

      Quote Originally Posted by debrajane
      Its totally not that.
      Okay, chief.

    9. #59
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      Quote Originally Posted by greenhavoc View Post
      Our definitions are the same, I just feel more comfortable giving it a name. You didn't answer my question, either: You wouldn't know if you were living there, though. It would be as if you never even existed. Why would you want that?

      If you, as in the you reading this response right now isn't true awareness, then of what use are you? Once you have gotten rid of it, what are you left with if not God; awareness? Still failing, Dei?
      The me with a position regarding your response is not the same me as the one aware of the me with the position on the response. That's where equanimity comes into it. Whenever I see anything my habitual response is to ask myself what I think about it. Primarily we attempt to figure out good from bad, what we like and dislike. And we apply this judgment to absolutely everything. The objects we are aware of are not limited to these judgments. Just because we think something is good or bad, that doesn't make it so. Having a position regarding everything is a mean to make proper decisions, but by limiting the world to your position on the world, you are limiting yourself. By allowing things to exist both as the judgments we have of them and as something apart from those judgments, we tap into the sense of a self beyond the identity, beyond the body. We sense space.

      So there's nothing to get rid of, there is only the realization that beyond the judgment, there is space.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      So there's nothing to get rid of, there is only the realization that beyond the judgment, there is space.
      One more time:
      You wouldn't know if you were living there, though. It would be as if you never even existed. Why would you want that?

    11. #61
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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      The me with a position regarding your response is not the same me as the one aware of the me with the position on the response. That's where equanimity comes into it. Whenever I see anything my habitual response is to ask myself what I think about it. Primarily we attempt to figure out good from bad, what we like and dislike. And we apply this judgment to absolutely everything. The objects we are aware of are not limited to these judgments. Just because we think something is good or bad, that doesn't make it so. Having a position regarding everything is a mean to make proper decisions, but by limiting the world to your position on the world, you are limiting yourself. By allowing things to exist both as the judgments we have of them and as something apart from those judgments, we tap into the sense of a self beyond the identity, beyond the body. We sense space.

      So there's nothing to get rid of, there is only the realization that beyond the judgment, there is space.
      Are you essentially saying that judgement restricts reality... it gives you a slice that you mistakenly believe is the whole? That once you pass judgement, you're no longer perceiving what is, but what you think is based on your perspective/approach?

      Who looks outside, dreams;
      who looks inside, awakes.

      - Carl Jung

    12. #62
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      Quote Originally Posted by Wolfwood View Post
      Are you essentially saying that judgement restricts reality... it gives you a slice that you mistakenly believe is the whole? That once you pass judgement, you're no longer perceiving what is, but what you think is based on your perspective/approach?
      Right and this doesn't only apply to what we believe is outside ourselves. Because we combine our awareness with our ego, our sense of identity is limited by what our ego thinks. So in other words if I think something is bad, such as a feeling of anxiety, then I assume everything that is me thinks this bad. In reality, only my ego is having his judgment, but not all of me. There is a piece of me which is not having this judgment. We can view everything from this place, including ourselves.

      The idea is to view yourself as you view and interact with the world.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      In that body it's all you. Whatever.

    14. #64
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      Mergedness

      Quote Originally Posted by greenhavoc View Post
      In that body it's all you. Whatever.
      Ok

      Mum called from the kitchen "Debbie do you want to do some blissfull servise?".

      My eyes sprung open. I was slightly shocked to find I wasn't woken from a sleep. I had the experience in an awake state. I didn't want anything to disturb this. So I didn't argue. I just called back "Yes mum!"

      I rolled off the bed and immedietly snapped around to look at myself on the bed. My body was'nt on the bed. The body that rolled off the bed and the one I was standing-up in was about one-third its normal wieght. So I naturally thought it was a dream body. I snapped a look back at the bed fully expecting to see my real physical body still on the bed. But it wasn't.

      Looking back, I had no thoughts happening. There was just sky-clear-cool emptyness. There were no emotions. I was not blissed-out.

      (...)

      I walked to the kitchen. I wanted to tell mum what had just happened ... but didn't want to do anything to disturb this. I began getting the shopping trolly out to go th the shops for mum.

      Mum bent over and said "is everything ok, Deb? I wanted to tell her but did not want to do anything to disturb what was happening. So I just said "Yes mum".

      Mum said "are you sure?"

      I said "You know how Guru Maharaji talks about 'realising knowledge?"

      "Yes Deb"

      "Well, it just happened".

      "Oh, you know thats not possible Deb"

      Then I quickly and quietly said "you're right mum".

      I said that because I knew exactly what she meant (beyond normal telepathy) also I didn't want anything to disturb this.

      She gave me a shopping list and I left with the trolly for the shop.

      At the shop I never looked at the (redundant) shopping list.

      (...)

      Back at home, as mum was unpacking the trolly. She said, "Debbie, how did you know to get these"

      I said "mum, I tried to tell you. I am one with you and everything else.

      Mum said, "10 minutes after you left I realised that I didn't put these things on the list. I even tried to telepathy them to you".

      "I wasn't even thinking mum. I was looking at stuff and knew to take it and put it in the trolly."

      Dear greenhavock

      This mergedness is my (our) natural state. While in it I knew that I had never experienced any other state-of-being. It was not 'wow' or even the least bit unusual.

      The isolated ego state is unusual.

      Any way, a sort of silent noise increased as I decended into the thick, heavy, peasoup-fog of the normal consciousness that I had before and since.

      But at least I know the other exists.
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    15. #65
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      okay

    16. #66
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      There is a profound benefit to giving yourself a little space from yourself. But it's one of those things you need to try, first, in order to understand why.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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