If conditioned to.....?

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10-27-2005, 11:49 PM
Howie

If conditioned to.....?

I believe that most of us have dicussed perception and the conditioned mind in depth several times. But......

I found these old pair of glasses. They are redish in tint. Maybe for a costume or something.
One of my employess put on the glasses just kidding around. What he noticed was the changing of the colors of differant objects. Red was orange and blue was purple and so on.
So I coaxed him in to wairing them the entire day. (I hope It didn't cause any retina damage :P ) I was curious to see if, when he took them of, that his eyes/brain would interperet any colors differantly for that short time.
It did not.
But I was thinking. Since the brain percieves via your eyes and if you were to have a pair of glasses that lets say, only changes one color. Green to brown.
Now if you wore them long enough, would your mind begin to reinterpret these two colors?
10-28-2005, 08:36 AM
Nirvana Starseed

I would say no. because thats not how the process works.

If an object is blue, you will interpret it as it is. Mainly because the light will go to your eye and your brain will process it automaticlly. That is different from purposely trying to see or change the color. Which I believe can also be done.

The main point is, your mind can not be conditioned in this way through your sight, because the process is accurate and there is no room to develop errors like this.

You can get confused about which color is which, but you will still see blue as blue, red as red. ect. because thats how the "machine" interprets the image to your brain. Your brain then gets this image and concludes it is blue, or red. It can for a moment conclude red is blue. in certain cases, I gather you have done those experiments where red in written in blue. And you say out loud for a moment it is red because you read the words. but none of this changed what you see. If anything it is just your brain getting confused, not your actual eyesight changing due to a conditioning process. Your brain can only get confused by your lack of attention and not through a process where it consistenly misinterprets for the long term due to a conditioning process.For example because say, you see red.Through glasses, it is just like seeing red through that filter. Indeed through that filter it is red, And cannot possibly contribute to developing a habit in the brains intepretation of blue, Even though blue is the color when you take off the glasses.

If you put a program on a computer, (glasses on eyes) for a long time, then take away that program. The computer has lost the software. It does not get conditioned by it. In the same way the process through which you see cannot be conditioned through the glasses.

We can interpret many colors at once. I can see blue red and green, on different objects, but it has never resulted in me mistaking blue for green, simply because they were on different objects.

If a tv has a blue screen. with red around it, and that is its "true" color. Putting glasses that make it look red with blue around it, have no effect on your intepretation of the colors. its just means its a bit of "software" that made it apear differently. Soon as you take them off it will apear as it was, because the software (or matter), the cause of that perception. Is gone. And the process in which your brain interpreted the colors continues accurately in both cases.

someone highly evolved, can "make" their software,change their dna to develop this ability in themself, so their eyes can see different colors. If this was their desire. I'm not talking about the average joe here. People like Jesus Christ/buddha can do that sort of thing.
10-28-2005, 11:41 AM
spoon

Re: If conditioned to.....?

Quote:

The main point is, your mind can not be conditioned in this way through your sight, because the process is accurate and there is no room to develop errors like this.[/b]

That's not quite true, you know the eye actually gets everything upside down, and our brain corrects it right? Well, there was a study done where people were given corrective lenses that flipped the image before it got to the eye. Initially everything was upside down, but eventually the brain compensated. The really cool part of the experiment was after a period of time (days, weeks, cant remember) they took the glasses off, and everything was upside down! The brain eventually swapped it back, but the point is the brain can be conditioned when it comes to sight.

Quote:

If a tv has a blue screen. with red around it, and that is its \"true\" color. Putting glasses that make it look red with blue around it, have no effect on your intepretation of the colors. its just means its a bit of \"software\" that made it apear differently.[/b]

Nothing has a "true" colour. We only see the colours we do because of our "hardware". We can percieve a certain range of wavelengths. If we could percieve more or less, colours would be different.

So to answer the OP, no idea :D. But it does have some precedent with the above study, so maybe. It'd be cool.
10-28-2005, 12:12 PM
Ynot

Objects change colour all the time.

An objects colour is determined by what light frequencies are reflected off of it, and what frequencies are absorbed.

Therefore an objects colour is determined by the quality of light shone onto it
Something will look different in natural sunlight as opposed to artificial light
10-28-2005, 02:06 PM
R.Carter

Who's to say that if ten subjects all perceive an object to be blue that each subjects mental interpretation of said object wouldn't be different? All we've actually agreed on is a label.
10-29-2005, 08:44 AM
Nirvana Starseed

Spoon.

I have never herd of lenses, or glasses that make everything apear upside down. I also have never herd of the lenses causing the brain to compensate for this and turn the image up the right way.Would this be different to getting the brain conditioned to seeing different colors? Did the brain not merely adjust to the inaccuracy of the perception. And doesn't this make it even more worthy to consider that our perception and brain knows what it is doing, and does not mis-interpret the perception. In this example it is not getting conditioned to an error in perception, it is the other way around. It is fixing the error in perception.And it succeeds in interpreting correctly. Whch is the opposite to getting conditioned by an error in perception. And also Can I have a link or something? I am interested in the results of this experiment.

I know that colors are part of a wavelenghth spectrum. And I did not go into detail about how the eye and brain percieve the images,or colors. or what colors by nature are, it merges into the structure of reality and ourselves. because I was just trying to explain a basic point in elementary terms.

I am pretty sure that one person who sees the color white, to another it is not black.
I remember thinking about this a long time ago, and I came to the conclusion, that we all see the same "colors". How can this be proven? Maybe do an internet search and it will mention something about this. I am not sure off the top of my head right now. Maybe I will make another comment about this later when I have more time to think about it.
11-02-2005, 12:08 AM
Howie

Quote:

Originally posted by Nirvana Starseed
I am pretty sure that one person who sees the color white, to another it is not black.
I remember thinking about this a long time ago, and I came to the conclusion, that we all see the same \"colors\". How can this be proven? Maybe do an internet search and it will mention something about this. I am not sure off the top of my head right now. Maybe I will make another comment about this later when I have more time to think about it.

I agree with you on the point that colors are generally percieved by all of us and are close in proximaty. Due to the fact we have a limted spectrum and so many lables for each of them.
I do think that the eyes are merely an organ that sends an image for our conscious to then percieve.
Our eyes trick us daily more than we probably know. Or should I say our conditioned mind. Our mind has a lalbling process that can put an auto response to visual stimuli. And as conditioned as our minds our I feel they can be altered. Thus giving argument to altering the lenses and conditioning your mind that way.
11-04-2005, 04:13 AM
Belisarius

Quote:

Originally posted by Nirvana Starseed
Spoon.

I have never herd of lenses, or glasses that make everything apear upside down. I also have never herd of the lenses causing the brain to compensate for this and turn the image up the right way.Would this be different to getting the brain conditioned to seeing different colors? Did the brain not merely adjust to the inaccuracy of the perception. And doesn't this make it even more worthy to consider that our perception and brain knows what it is doing, and does not mis-interpret the perception. In this example it is not getting conditioned to an error in perception, it is the other way around. It is fixing the error in perception.And it succeeds in interpreting correctly. Whch is the opposite to getting conditioned by an error in perception. And also Can I have a link or something? I am interested in the results of this experiment.

I know that colors are part of a wavelenghth spectrum. And I did not go into detail about how the eye and brain percieve the images,or colors. or what colors by nature are, it merges into the structure of reality and ourselves. because I was just trying to explain a basic point in elementary terms.

I am pretty sure that one person who sees the color white, to another it is not black.
I remember thinking about this a long time ago, and I came to the conclusion, that we all see the same \"colors\". How can this be proven? Maybe do an internet search and it will mention something about this. I am not sure off the top of my head right now. Maybe I will make another comment about this later when I have more time to think about it.

I'd like to get me some of those lenses, that would be an awesome experience.

On the subject of colors, I think it's definitely possible that the colors I see may not be the colors you see. Communication of colors differs between cultures as well, blue in some cultures might be considered a shade of green. Anyway, I'd like to hear your arguement against everyone seeing colors in different ways.