• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




    Results 1 to 17 of 17
    Like Tree11Likes
    • 1 Post By dolphin
    • 1 Post By dolphin
    • 1 Post By fogelbise
    • 2 Post By Sageous
    • 1 Post By Dthoughts
    • 1 Post By Sageous
    • 1 Post By Dthoughts
    • 1 Post By Neo Neo
    • 1 Post By Original Poster
    • 1 Post By Dthoughts

    Thread: What does it mean to be alive?

    1. #1
      Member Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Tagger Second Class Made lots of Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Dthoughts's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      LD Count
      A few
      Gender
      Posts
      1,468
      Likes
      767
      DJ Entries
      72

      What does it mean to be alive?

      Say there are levels of aliveness. Lucidity. And states of mind that are more closer to death than any physical state. One's quality of experience is either blunted or it is rich in aliveness.

      How does one start cultivating 'aliveness'. What does it mean? What are the essential prerequisites for alive. Experienced alivers? Anyone?

      One could also ask what would blunt aliveness.

      How does one know that one is alive?!

      ..
      This is a practical question I have to know. I must be deader than some around me. I see that people aren't fully alive anyway. I do not think this is the way to experience life. How can I bring life to another person i.e. a wife. and to myself. I must know!

    2. #2
      Member Achievements:
      5000 Hall Points Tagger Second Class Vivid Dream Journal Made lots of Friends on DV Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class
      dolphin's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 2012
      Gender
      Location
      the Pacific Ocean
      Posts
      2,326
      Likes
      3042
      DJ Entries
      152
      Aliveness can be measured using the Glascow Coma Scale. The higher the score, the more alive the person is.

      Of course, a person can be more alive beyond the maximum score. To cultivate aliveness, one adopts a healthy lifestyle. A healthy lifestyle involves things like a healthy diet, exercise, and other healthy habits. Unhealthy habits blunt aliveness.

      Lucidity can be considered a healthy habit. Lucidity implies self-awareness. Self-awareness can be measured using this scale from Wikipedia:
      Level 0: Confusion. At this level the individual has a degree of zero self-awareness. This person is unaware of any mirror reflection or the mirror itself. They perceive the mirror as an extension of their environment. Level 0 can also be displayed when an adult frightens himself in a mirror mistaking his own reflection as another person just for a second.
      Level 1: Differentiation. The individual realizes the mirror is able to reflect things. They see that what is in the mirror is different from what is surrounding them. At this level they can differentiate between their own movement in the mirror and the movement of the surrounding environment.
      Level 2: Situation. At this point an individual can link the movements on the mirror to what is perceived within their own body. This is the first hint of self-exploration on a projected surface where what is visualized on the mirror is special to the self.
      Level 3: Identification. This stage is characterized by the new ability to identify self: an individual can now see that what's in the mirror is not another person but actually him/herself. It is seen when a child, instead of referring to the mirror while referring to him/herself, refers to him/herself while looking in the mirror.
      Level 4: Permanence. Once an individual reaches this level they can identify the self beyond the present mirror imagery. They are able to identify the self in previous pictures looking different or younger. A "permanent self" is now experienced.
      Level 5: Self-consciousness or "meta" self-awareness. At this level not only is the self seen from a first person view but its realized that it's also seen from a third person's view. They begin to understand they can be in the mind of others. For instance, how they are seen from a public standpoint.
      I guess, in short, to be alive is to be healthy. To be more alive, be more healthy.
      Dthoughts likes this.

    3. #3
      Member Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Tagger Second Class Made lots of Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Dthoughts's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      LD Count
      A few
      Gender
      Posts
      1,468
      Likes
      767
      DJ Entries
      72
      Nice.

      The first scale is a rather useful model to start with actually

      I've had moments what I had lower scores. In fact verbal responses are still a 3 most of the time. The motor responses are a bit iffy. I mean, I wouldn't say one is more alive when obeying more commands given to him. Or a prick a needle in urself just to check how you respond. You know, you might not want to make a response and you would conclude that u are 1 score thus dead in area. lol

      It's an outside looking in perspective.

      Wiki 2 is a self-awareness list. Probably used on dolphins too. Which is interesting that you brought that up. As I'm starting to believe Self-identity. A thorough understanding of your unique perspective in the world. And spontaneously rocking that identity wherever you go. Is the way to go to bring more life. As opposed to being rocked by the world and stumbling through life.Psychologically speaking.

      I think health is an important factor. As you say, bad health, no eating for example results in literal death. Bad eating results in similar states ime. The biological entity has to be kept in a good state.

    4. #4
      Member Achievements:
      5000 Hall Points Tagger Second Class Vivid Dream Journal Made lots of Friends on DV Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class
      dolphin's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 2012
      Gender
      Location
      the Pacific Ocean
      Posts
      2,326
      Likes
      3042
      DJ Entries
      152
      The model is based on what the person is able to choose to do. For example, a stubborn person with lots of life can still potentially choose to obey commands, but the most complaint person in the world still may to unable to obey any commands if they are dying because they are not able to.

      I argue that health is the only factor in the liveliness of a being.

      Take this sloth for instance. This sloth isn't moving very fast and has little to no lucidity, but does that mean it is not fully alive? I argue that this sloth is fully alive because it seems consistent with other healthy sloths. The leaves on the trees also seem fully alive for the same reason.

      Dthoughts likes this.

    5. #5
      Dream Guide - DVA Teacher Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Tagger First Class Vivid Dream Journal Populated Wall Veteran Second Class 5000 Hall Points
      fogelbise's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      LD Count
      989sinceFeb2013
      Gender
      Location
      'Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.'
      Posts
      2,388
      Likes
      2911
      DJ Entries
      180
      @Dthoughts - I am taking a more philosophical angle here: Have you had what some people call "mountain top moments", "Peak moments", or a glimpse into the experience of what some consider a spiritual awakening? I believe those moments, and the path that gives us those moments more and more frequently, are a huge part of feeling more alive. I believe pursuing lucid dreaming in adulthood has led me down this path through practices like cultivating stronger self-awareness, mindfulness meditation, and just through the experiences we "live" by having amazing lucid dreams. I am definitely not saying that I am spiritually awakened, but I believe I have had glimpses into what it must be like…experiences that have lasted for hours on occasion.
      Last edited by fogelbise; 06-07-2017 at 07:42 PM.
      Dthoughts likes this.

    6. #6
      high mileage oneironaut Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Stickie King Populated Wall Referrer Silver 10000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class
      Sageous's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      LD Count
      35+ Yrs' Worth
      Gender
      Location
      any quiet place
      Posts
      4,880
      Likes
      6845
      [ ^^ I wrote the following just before you posted, Folgelbise; sorry for stepping on your excellent post, and for repeating an intro to the "philosophical" theme (also, the bit on meditation was not in response to your post)]

      The OP seems like an opportunity to express a philosophical as well as scientific approach, so here goes:


      Want to know what it feels to be alive? Consider trying, or just thinking about trying (as some are dangerous or impractical), these things (listed in no particular order, BTW):

      * Go skydiving.

      * Ride a motorcycle in the rain.

      * Sail a small boat, single-handed, offshore.

      * Fall in love.

      * Help a stranger in need, in a way that offers no benefit to yourself.

      * Explore a deep cave, with your lights off... or just be lucid during Delta/NREM sleep.

      * Visit a cancer ward; chat with the patients.

      * Plant and manage a garden.

      * Climb a mountain.

      * Build something substantial, like a house, or aboat.

      * Drive in unfamiliar territory without GPS or a map.

      * Question authority, to authority's face.

      * Learn to play a classical instrument (like a violin, or piano).

      I could go on, but I think you'll get the point with those.


      Want to blunt aliveness? Consider these things, again in no particular order (and notice also that most of them are not dangerous or impractical):

      * Watch TV (even educational, or the news -- especially the news).

      * Play video games.

      * Avoid deep, perhaps risky, relationships.

      * Do whatever your friends are doing, without question or thought.

      * Allow "autopilot" to be the default state of your day-to-day consciousness.

      * Do drugs (any feeling of aliveness during drug use is, in my opinion, an illusion).

      * Travel on a cruise ship.
      .
      * Respect authority, even when you know what they are saying is wrong.

      * Meditate. [yeah, I might get some heat for that one, but meditation to me is the antithesis, even the intentional abandonment, of aliveness. Bliss and enlightenment are wonderful things and ought to be pursued, but they, to me, do not equal feeling alive... the mystical experience literally transcends physical life, I believe]

      * Avoid activity that might involve some risk, energy, or extensive personal input.

      * Look straight ahead, or at the ground, when you are walking somewhere.

      * Argue for your limitations.
      Last edited by Sageous; 06-08-2017 at 05:02 AM.
      Dthoughts and EddieDean like this.

    7. #7
      Gunslinger Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal 1000 Hall Points 3 years registered
      EddieDean's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      LD Count
      12
      Gender
      Location
      The Netherlands
      Posts
      62
      Likes
      45
      DJ Entries
      16
      I don't have much to add here, but I entirely agree with Sageous' post. The greater moments in my life so far are items on that list, and I see a strong connection between lower points in my life and the activities on the second list. In general, challenging yourself seems to be one of the most rewarding things to do, despite the initial resistance I often feel.
      "The scariest, most terrifying thing that I fear?
      My imagination."
      -"I thought you were going to say 'Fear, itself'."
      "Then you have a small imagination."

      "You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling."
      "When everything's a surprise, experience takes on a dreamlike quality."

    8. #8
      Member Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Tagger Second Class Made lots of Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Dthoughts's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      LD Count
      A few
      Gender
      Posts
      1,468
      Likes
      767
      DJ Entries
      72
      @dolphin, when talking basic requirements for life. Yes, biology is the only requirement. But you said it yourself. The sloth has little to no lucidity. We could agree on a definition of 'awareness' at least. And continue building on the idea that the human standing beside the sloth is more alive/aware/lucid compared to the sloth. But the Sloth is aware of other things that the human is not. So there are degrees. Imo.

      Thank you FogelBise. I very much agree with peak-experiences. Opening your eyes to the magical wondrous reality around us. Ought to prickle our brains into feeling more in touch with the very fabrics of life. I posted this elsewhere and someone said that 'New experience' (scientific article) tickles the brain into alert and emotional states. likewise, repeated experience I said numbs the brain. I'm sure a peak-experience is a prime example of unique experiences. I am confused however by the latter part of ur post. I am confused as to what spiritual experiences. I think you mean lucid dreams have been spiritual experiences for you but also not sure if you meant these peak-experiences where spirtual experiences as well

      @sageous. Oh.. You taking the time to make such a beautiful practical response. I had you in mind when I made this post as possible alivers on this forum. I never thought you'd actually respond so adequately So thank you.

      Your list of things to do is so good I think i'll leave it untouched for now. Only thing I have to add to ur initial statement, that those are not really scientific controlled experiments you have been doing. They come across more as very useful anecdotes . haha

      Same feeling about the list of things not to do. I remember you have been talking about video games on this forum before in relationship to LDing. But you have never been so explicit as you are here in how 'negative' you view them. I think it's actually a double-edged sword. When well-balanced as a activity or hobby as something you do in the company of good people (you play with or against across the world in competition or teams) I think it's like any sport. Needless to say I am enjoying some gaming even later today. As long as it does not prevent me for doing other activities I am A-okay- with that

      Short one about meditation: Inserting awareness, lucidity. Purposefully putting extra thought and energy into behaviors without actually sitting down and avoiding life. More-like going through life with an extra spine in ur mind to support the foundation. That's how I come to think it is done.

      Drugs.. Don't do drugs. Secret 12 year olds reading this... lol

      While depency on drugs limits potential life-experience. Occasional use of them certainly expands the potential for experience in a certain direction that is unique to each brain in every moment and could not have been experienced without the ingestion of a certain drug at a particular time out. Catch what im saying. I thought that's an interesting observation.
      And I noticed a glimmer in the eyes of Heroin ex-addicts. That glimmer in the eye seems to stay with them. I'm not sure if it's just me though?

      All in all. FANTASTIC INPUT guys. Thank you so much. Hopefully more to come!
      Last edited by Dthoughts; 06-08-2017 at 03:23 PM.
      dolphin likes this.

    9. #9
      high mileage oneironaut Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Stickie King Populated Wall Referrer Silver 10000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class
      Sageous's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      LD Count
      35+ Yrs' Worth
      Gender
      Location
      any quiet place
      Posts
      4,880
      Likes
      6845
      ^^ Just to be clear, because I have no interest in defending a bunch of suggestions that I set out to make a point, and not to express positive or negative opinions of each suggestion:

      The OP was about "aliveness," and not about the quality of video games, or my opinion of them (I"m actually quite fond of them, just as I am of watching TV). Playing video games might be great fun, and even exciting, but to me when playing them you are effectively trading your personal "aliveness" for the aliveness created by the content of the video game; you as a living being are reduced to the status of an observer of action that is taking place well outside your body (which I think separates video gaming from sports, BTW)... yes, your eyes are watching and your hands are operating a controller, and there might even be interaction with other players, but the "reality" for all that is based in a place that is removed from your local reality. Also, like TV (and this was my point), video games tend to work best when you shut off your self-awareness and allow your mind and body to be immersed in the game; in a sense, you are breaking the connection to your own aliveness in order to live vicariously through the aliveness of an artificial character navigating a world that was created by a computer programmer.

      I'm not sure we agree on the nature of meditation; I seem to see it as more a vehicle for relaxation, introspection, spiritual growth, and ultimately stepping beyond our given physical existence (aka, aliveness). I do not see it as a tool for energizing behavior at all, so I guess we'll have to differ there.

      Finally, what you wrote in support of drugs may have helped make my point:

      Occasional use of them certainly expands the potential for experience in a certain direction that is unique to each brain in every moment and could not have been experienced without the ingestion of a certain drug at a particular time out.
      Yes, drugs offer a unique, chemically induced illusion of aliveness -- or something that might feel like hyper awareness of being -- but that illusion is artificial, and not a feeling of actual aliveness. Also, that glimmer you see in ex-heroin addicts might just be a glint of joy or relief for returning to "aliveness" once more, after their long absence from any kind of feeling of being truly alive.

      tl;dr: My point in those lists was to offer examples that might inspire a feeling of aliveness, as well as examples of things I think might blunt aliveness; I really wasn't making an argument for or against each specific listing, nor do I wish to; I just wanted to give you something to consider.
      Last edited by Sageous; 06-08-2017 at 05:12 PM.

    10. #10
      Member Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Tagger Second Class Made lots of Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Dthoughts's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      LD Count
      A few
      Gender
      Posts
      1,468
      Likes
      767
      DJ Entries
      72
      You seem to misinterpret my tone again. This happened before. Let me be clear. When I said you never explicitly said you viewed video games as 'negative'.
      I did not mean to say that it is in any way negative. Or that I disagree. I literally meant the sentence, in short; "You believe video games are 'negative'.
      You might read the word and feel a certain tone that I did not mean to put in there. I was aware when I wrote them, I just believed the sentence would suffice as it stands. I also had no alternative sentence that would have been more ideal.

      Yes, drugs offer a unique, chemically induced illusion of aliveness -- or something that might feel like hyper awareness of being -- but that illusion is artificial, and not a feeling of actual aliveness. Also, that glimmer you see in ex-heroin addicts might just be a glint of joy or relief for returning to "aliveness" once more, after their long absence from any kind of feeling of being truly alive.
      It might be interesting to further clarify what defines aliveness. As you had not given a specific defnition for it, yet. And logically I would ask what is the fundemental difference then between drug-induced aliveness and real aliveness. If you happen to have an adequate answer available and don't mind answering we could have further delving in this topic. I might just debate it though

      I seem to see it as more a vehicle for relaxation, introspection, spiritual growth,
      Our views may differ. That is ok. I am affected by Manly P hall's defnition of meditation. As I have run through 100s of hours of his lectures during the past weeks.

      According to his words. I paraquote.
      Quote Originally Posted by Manly.P.Hall
      Transcendence (Alchemical illumination) is achieved in this reality
      According to him it is done by embracing life. It is a requirement for illumination. Hence, I agree heavily with ur stance on the 'anti-thesis' of life. In my view, meditation is not done sitting on a rock. It can be done while doing ur daily activities (such as gathering food, building a home). The essentials. I said behavior simply to make it explicit that you can be doing activities using ur body while meditating. I don't know if I am expressing myself adequately.. Doing behavior and analyzing the behavior , putting more thought into why/what behavior you do. That to me is meditation. And I apply it and it gets me through life.

      tl;dr: My point in those lists was to offer examples that might inspire a feeling of aliveness, as well as examples of things I think might blunt aliveness; I really wasn't making an argument for or against each specific listing, nor do I wish to; I just wanted to give you something to consider.
      I understood that. For the sake of furthering a conversation I choose to argumentate some of ur points. The tone was meant in a tongue-in-cheek kind of way. I was not seriously trying to debate you at anything.

      Really, I enjoyed the quality of ur point and the insight that follows from it. I really think that I will come back here to reread more than once. Maybe I did not see the underlying motivation for making this list. But each individual point definetely struck a chord. I had no plans of analyzing the origins any further.



      Sageous I hope we're on neutral stance here now. I can not be arsed to further clarify or apologize. It is what it is. My way of expression is very indirect. All I can do is try

      PS: There where more things i'd like respond to but I got lost in the editing process of it all. lol. and i couldn't retrieve the way my mind reacted to the previous reaction. So this oughta suffice!
      Last edited by Dthoughts; 06-08-2017 at 07:10 PM.

    11. #11
      high mileage oneironaut Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Stickie King Populated Wall Referrer Silver 10000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class
      Sageous's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      LD Count
      35+ Yrs' Worth
      Gender
      Location
      any quiet place
      Posts
      4,880
      Likes
      6845
      ^^ In all honesty, I didn't give a thought to your tone, Dthoughts; only your words... if you don't want me to respond as I did, then I think (and I say this in all friendliness, with zero anger or condescension) it would be a great idea if you were more direct, and say what you mean the first time around so I don't have to waste my time telling you things that apparently didn't relate to what you meant. That said, I'll go around one more time, in spite of the fact that the specifics from my list are really not the point I was trying to make (as I believe you know).


      Quote Originally Posted by Dthoughts View Post
      You seem to misinterpret my tone again. This happened before. Let me be clear. When I said you never explicitly said you viewed video games as 'negative'.
      I did not mean to say that it is in any way negative. Or that I disagree. I literally meant the sentence, in short; "You believe video games are 'negative'.
      You might read the word and feel a certain tone that I did not mean to put in there. I was aware when I wrote them, I just believed the sentence would suffice as it stands. I also had no alternative sentence that would have been more ideal.
      I still have no idea what you're talking about, then .

      I don't believe that video games are negative, just as I did not intend that "Blunt Aliveness" list to be a list of negatuve or bad things; they're just things that, if you think about them, might just blunt aliveness... some of them are pretty fun, usefuil, and can even be enlightening (i.e., meditation). So, once again, I do not believe that video games are negative at all; they are certainly not helpful, in my opinion, in the quest for feeling truly alive, or even in the quest for self-awareness/lucidity, but they certainly have their own value, and that value is one I appreciate.

      It might be interesting to further clarify what defines aliveness. As you had not given a specific defnition for it, yet. And logically I would ask what is the fundemental difference then between drug-induced aliveness and real aliveness. If you happen to have an adequate answer available and don't mind answering we could have further delving in this topic. I might just debate it though
      I think my post above was about as close as I can get to defining an arguably undefinable thing like "aliveness." I said what I did to indicate that aliveness is a feeling, perhaps a visceral sensation, of the presence of your physical self in this world, the fragility of that presence, the potential power of that presence, and the joy or fear (and everything between) that presence can generate... basically aliveness to me is a real appreciation of your physical existence and the potentials of that existence. ... reading that, I think you can see why I chose to post what I did!

      The trouble with drug use, especially the majors, like psychedelics or heroin, is that they feed you a false, perhaps artificial sense of aliveness that invariably takes you away from a real sense of aliveness: You could argue that, say, LSD will make you more aware of everything around you because, while tripping, you might tend to be transfixed by every detail of your surroundings, noticing how amazing so many things are... trouble is, when you come back from your trip, those details no longer exist -- because they never actually did. I'm pretty sure that Timothy Leary himself eventually backed off on his support of psychedelics for this reason. There is no argument I can see at all for heroin, because its high creates a sense of well-being that ensures you that your world is perfect, and everything around you is just fine -- even if you're shooting up in an abandoned house, alone and friendless, and haven't bathed or properly eaten in a week. So I think that the aliveness created by drugs is a lie, and a potentially dangerous one. [That's all I'll say about drug use, BTW; I've been down that road before and really don't care to travel it again; also, I doubt you want your thread to turn into a drug use thread.]

      Our views may differ. That is ok. I am affected by Manly P hall's defnition of meditation. As I have run through 100s of hours of his lectures during the past weeks.

      According to his words. I paraquote.

      According to him it is done by embracing life. It is a requirement for illumination. Hence, I agree heavily with ur stance on the 'anti-thesis' of life. In my view, meditation is not done sitting on a rock. It can be done while doing ur daily activities (such as gathering food, building a home). The essentials. I said behavior simply to make it explicit that you can be doing activities using ur body while meditating. I don't know if I am expressing myself adequately.. Doing behavior and analyzing the behavior , putting more thought into why/what behavior you do. That to me is meditation. And I apply it and it gets me through life.
      Yep, our views on this differ indeed. Nuff said, I think.

      ,

      Last edited by Sageous; 06-08-2017 at 08:43 PM.
      Dthoughts likes this.

    12. #12
      Member Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Tagger Second Class Made lots of Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Dthoughts's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      LD Count
      A few
      Gender
      Posts
      1,468
      Likes
      767
      DJ Entries
      72
      I think I grossly misread the tone of UR post (talk about irony) . I'm very sorry if I did.

      Don't take it as a debate. Just see it as my point of view.
      Anyway, I was thinking about ur gaming. I see it as a reality in a reality. Ofcourse you can't live there. But that's not the point. The pixels are real pixels. What you do in a video game has real consequences. Within the confines of a digitally created reality. That is what it is. It is nothing more. People try to make it more than it is and value their gaming achievements above all others. Albeit unconsciously I have been guilty of doing this. There was simply more attention for gaming than real life stuff in most of my youthe, actually
      But likewise, we are using a computer and keybord to extend our mind in a sense. I see gaming on the internet as that. I feel their soul I really do I think as I am gaming them. It's like a glorified chatroom. A meetingplace in a digital space. It is not as beautiful as reality. But I see it as a painting. It's an art made by programmers. Intention is what is most important here. For what it is I think it can be a beaitufl thing. If only we step away from making video games with commercial intents in mind. Maybe.

      Anyway, excuse me for my behavior or any misunderstandings. I wish every1 a peacefui afternoon
      Sageous likes this.

    13. #13
      Out of the Matrix Neo Neo's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2003
      LD Count
      several
      Gender
      Location
      Japan
      Posts
      504
      Likes
      159
      DJ Entries
      29
      I've just been skimming through the posts so apologies ahead if I'm repeating stuff, but got a couple thoughts.

      Is the alive-ness we're talking about more of a adrenaline-high energy endorphin vivid state, or more of a consciously aware thoughtful compassionate state of mind? Or a mix? There seems to be an agreement that adventurous activities constitute being alive, but so do "relaxing" activities like sailing a boat or connecting sympathetically with another being. But then there also has to be the element of "being aware", or lucidity to a degree otherwise someone wouldn't be aware of "being alive" in this sense. Consciously living, lucid awareness in waking life in tandem with taking action, which leads to being alive? Although at this point I'm just being facetious lol.
      Dthoughts likes this.

    14. #14
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4135
      DJ Entries
      11
      For starters, we're being too vague here, as others have pointed out. Invariably, we appear to be talking about the spectrum of awareness. We appear to be scaling less aliveness with a lack of attention and lack of interest--not necessarily of the situation or present moment, but at all. After all, someone can be in a high state of emotion, fixation and consciousness while dreaming of the future, or of the past, or even dreaming while asleep.

      And what really starts to break shit down is that high level of both vividness and attachment that one can have while dreaming. I almost want to say this is best experienced when one is not lucid, when we're most likely to be captivated by the experience, but of course lucidity itself delivers the wonder of exploring a new state of awareness, which has its own punch. Regardless, this leads me to thinking about "aliveness" almost in a sense contrasted with nirvana, or enlightenment as described by the Buddha. The four noble truths impart that existence is suffering, and our attachment to existence is the source of this suffering. To end suffering, we must merely end our own neediness, and yet this neediness almost seems like a requirement from the view of someone like Joseph Campell, who wrote in the Hero with a Thousand Faces that meaning and "aliveness" were the same thing. One sought meaning to feel alive, and one felt alive through seeking meaning. Not finding it, mind you, but toiling over drama as if it were real. To be alive is to be fooled by life's illusion, by his line of thinking.
      Last edited by Original Poster; 06-16-2017 at 04:05 PM.
      Neo Neo likes this.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    15. #15
      Member Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Tagger Second Class Made lots of Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Dthoughts's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      LD Count
      A few
      Gender
      Posts
      1,468
      Likes
      767
      DJ Entries
      72
      Apologies for late reply.

      Quote Originally Posted by Original Poster View Post
      For starters, we're being too vague here, as others have pointed out. Invariably, we appear to be talking about the spectrum of awareness. We appear to be scaling less aliveness with a lack of attention and lack of interest--not necessarily of the situation or present moment, but at all. After all, someone can be in a high state of emotion, fixation and consciousness while dreaming of the future, or of the past, or even dreaming while asleep.

      And what really starts to break shit down is that high level of both vividness and attachment that one can have while dreaming. I almost want to say this is best experienced when one is not lucid, when we're most likely to be captivated by the experience, but of course lucidity itself delivers the wonder of exploring a new state of awareness, which has its own punch. Regardless, this leads me to thinking about "aliveness" almost in a sense contrasted with nirvana, or enlightenment as described by the Buddha. The four noble truths impart that existence is suffering, and our attachment to existence is the source of this suffering. To end suffering, we must merely end our own neediness, and yet this neediness almost seems like a requirement from the view of someone like Joseph Campell, who wrote in the Hero with a Thousand Faces that meaning and "aliveness" were the same thing. One sought meaning to feel alive, and one felt alive through seeking meaning. Not finding it, mind you, but toiling over drama as if it were real. To be alive is to be fooled by life's illusion, by his line of thinking.

      Really? I would call fixation on a certain emotion an attachment to an illusory perception. The anti-thesis. After all one's fixation on a specific personal interest, aliennates all other viewpoints. Attention has to be broad and constitute the full reality to scale with aliveness. An awareness of emotion funnels the attention.

      I like the quote from Joseph Campbell. Likely, that touches upon the gist of this thread. But I strongly disagree with this interpretation. Life has both illusions and realities. It is the discerning of realities that constitutes a meta-reality/alive-ness/awareness. It is precicely this meta-reality that reveals true intentions and motivate a infallible solution to all life's problem. I don't know that's just how I feel about it.

      Quote Originally Posted by Neo Neo View Post
      I've just been skimming through the posts so apologies ahead if I'm repeating stuff, but got a couple thoughts.

      Is the alive-ness we're talking about more of a adrenaline-high energy endorphin vivid state, or more of a consciously aware thoughtful compassionate state of mind? Or a mix? There seems to be an agreement that adventurous activities constitute being alive, but so do "relaxing" activities like sailing a boat or connecting sympathetically with another being. But then there also has to be the element of "being aware", or lucidity to a degree otherwise someone wouldn't be aware of "being alive" in this sense. Consciously living, lucid awareness in waking life in tandem with taking action, which leads to being alive? Although at this point I'm just being facetious lol.
      Yes, I think that's a good defnition for it. My question was what it actually is. And how to cultivate it. You mention outside. third person actions of being alive. But I think alive is as well an internal happening.. A state of mind that works. As opposed to a state of mind that is blocked. I'd say a non functioning mind is similar to a dead brain.

    16. #16
      Member Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Tagger Second Class Made lots of Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Dthoughts's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      LD Count
      A few
      Gender
      Posts
      1,468
      Likes
      767
      DJ Entries
      72
      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      I think you can see why I chose to post what I did!

      ,

      ^^

      Yep, yep. It does.

      I agree with the definetion as well. Thx for clarifying.

      With some additions. The 'potentials' for existence could be expanded with certain practices. But that is just my point of view. The reason I made this thread was to be hearing about others perspectives. Not to insert my own!

      Yep, our views on this differ indeed. Nuff said, I think.
      [smileys I cant copy-paste of find]
      ,
      Lol cheers buddy!
      There is no argument I can see at all for heroin, because its high creates a sense of well-being that ensures you that your world is perfect, and everything around you is just fine -- even if you're shooting up in an abandoned house, alone and friendless, and haven't bathed or properly eaten in a week
      The words you say are horrible but somehow the delivery is comical to me. Maybe because it is true.

      Heroin used as en escapism has this horrible effect. The thought I believe (i know of it) is in a sense a mystical truth. In the void we all return and everything IS actually fine.
      There's no need to use heroin for that. The delta state as I see it is a very proper way of re-shaping the mind too ime. Then one might argue why even use heroin at all?
      My answer to that, it beats me too.

      I started a legal opiate called Kratom habit. I just get shit done. From my useage of amphetamines (another sketchy one) the main and proper excuse I could find for using it was that it gave me an insight into a state of mind. That I could verify using non-drug-induced methods such as sex to get similar chemical responses. I like to think of the state as somewhat of an example. I think my LSD experience (i really want to share it sometime, on a massive dose) was real. Fleeting and emphermal, yes. But a proper example and memory of things that could be real. Also religious texts make more sense

      And some of my previous posts are directly based on a memory retrieved after using DMT. But that's just my interest in the substances.

      --

      I thank you for responding in the way you did. Again, really appreciate your input Sageous.
      Last edited by Dthoughts; 06-16-2017 at 09:37 PM.
      Sageous likes this.

    17. #17
      Out of the Matrix Neo Neo's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2003
      LD Count
      several
      Gender
      Location
      Japan
      Posts
      504
      Likes
      159
      DJ Entries
      29
      Quote Originally Posted by Dthoughts View Post
      Yes, I think that's a good defnition for it. My question was what it actually is. And how to cultivate it. You mention outside. third person actions of being alive. But I think alive is as well an internal happening.. A state of mind that works. As opposed to a state of mind that is blocked. I'd say a non functioning mind is similar to a dead brain.
      Ah I gotcha now, I think I should have just re-read and understood the OP better. For me aliveness is definitely more a state of conscious awareness than of specific actions. The antonym of aliveness being "just going through the motions" without any thought or regard to one's actions. In my sense and definition "aliveness' is an objective reference point, since the description is loose/open and its difficult to measure another's awareness in totality. Or difficult to judge whether or not someone has the awareness that is justified as being alive, versus living unconsciously. The kind of chart in this thread is a good idea of basic awareness but I don't think it gets to the core of my feeling of aliveness.

      So by my definition it can be something stimulating like a musical performance or skydiving, or it could be simple interactions with another human being or other. Maybe you could tack on the element of critical thinking and questioning to my definition as well, in tandem with being consciously aware. And aliveness could be any emotion from happiness to despair, as I think it is more a mindset than actual actions.

    Similar Threads

    1. What keeps you alive?
      By Ginsan in forum Extended Discussion
      Replies: 44
      Last Post: 08-15-2015, 02:45 AM
    2. I'm still alive
      By HeavySleeper in forum The Lounge
      Replies: 11
      Last Post: 03-20-2013, 12:10 PM
    3. While I'm Alive I'll Feel Alive
      By Bearsy in forum Dream Journal Archive
      Replies: 27
      Last Post: 06-12-2010, 07:50 PM
    4. Still alive, and well...? RIP
      By Rusted In Peace in forum Dream Journal Archive
      Replies: 1
      Last Post: 04-29-2008, 08:02 PM
    5. What/who Is Alive
      By sogart in forum Philosophy
      Replies: 28
      Last Post: 04-27-2007, 01:57 PM

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •