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    1. #26
      Beyond the Poles Cyclic13's Avatar
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      Well, no definitive 'self' in terms of the every day usage we use today. The word, 'self', should be as hard a word to get your head around as the word, 'infinity'. That doesn't mean you should stop trying or get caught up in distraction doing so.

      This idea, however undefinable to us now, has to be attainable since we have the innate ability to begin to acknowledge the 'self'.


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    2. #27
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      And what is "self" as per this everyday usage you speak of?

    3. #28
      Member gregash's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by SolSkye View Post
      You are everything, and everything is you.
      [/b]
      No you aren&#39;t.

      Don&#39;t you see the difference between these two statements? Everything is one. One is everything.


    4. #29
      Beyond the Poles Cyclic13's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mark75 View Post
      And what is "self" as per this everyday usage you speak of?
      [/b]
      That self-imposed dissemination between entities...myself...yourself...so on and so forth. I thought that would be self-explanatory. Pardon the pun.

      Quote Originally Posted by Mark75 View Post
      No you aren&#39;t.

      Don&#39;t you see the difference between these two statements? Everything is one. One is everything.
      [/b]
      Hanging on wording won&#39;t get you anywhere. The basic gist of what you said, and what I said are the same thing. That could&#39;ve easily been figured through the context. Now, your just attempting to be difficult. I&#39;m not here to argue the color of red herring.


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    5. #30
      Member gregash's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by SolSkye View Post
      The basic gist of what you said, and what I said are the same thing.
      [/b]
      No, not really. You&#39;re equating the two statements and I say there is a difference.

      Say I have a ball in my hand. Now while it&#39;s true that the universe is one, that does not mean the ball is the universe. You&#39;re just substituting your conscious self with the ball.

    6. #31
      Beyond the Poles Cyclic13's Avatar
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      As I said before, your attempting to be difficult. There is no distinction, only distraction. This will be my last post regarding your distinction because it&#39;s not there. If you still have questions about it please take it up with me in a PM.

      It DOES mean the conscious self is the universe because the universe is what created us. While you may mention any number of chicken and the egg scenerios, the fact is, our only verifiable point of truth is from within ourselves therefore those are our only gateways to understanding infinity from whence we came. Whether I blanket statment existence through the number one, or through something more understandable like the term, &#39;you&#39;, it&#39;s all inevitably the same.


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    7. #32
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      But it is easily demonstrable that the ball is quite different from the human called Mark. You see, the ball is small, round, made of plastic and not attached to the human called Mark. Said human is made mostly of flesh and bone, and so long as the ball is not consumed by him, is found in a different location than the ball. Of course they are ultimately both composed of matter, and in a very strict and literal sense one could argue that they aren&#39;t "separate" on the grounds that they are "connected" with air, it really is quite easy to prove that they exist as separate entities when all we have to do is to merely add a few conditions for what qualifies as a separate entity. At the moment I can&#39;t really put it into words, so I&#39;ll use an example.

      Imagine a clock sitting on a table.

      If you selected a clock and a table instead of the entire universe, then you have the ability to discern separate entities. If you didn&#39;t have trouble imagining which part was the clock and which was the table, then you too have the power to understand what constitutes a separate entity.

      Again, using the clock, I&#39;d ask you to find its hour hand. If you were able to do that, then you have the ability to see that there is a difference between the whole and a part of the whole.

      Now I ask you, would you say that an hour hand is a clock? Or that the hour hand has no individual existence aside from the clock?

    8. #33
      Beyond the Poles Cyclic13's Avatar
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      The ability to discern difference doesn&#39;t make something different. It&#39;s only different, if you think it&#39;s different. Which, yes, is all a matter of perception. However, the fundamental reality of the situation is they are unequivocally indistinguishable from one another; the clock hand, the clock, and the table are all imagined or created of one thing- the mind. No matter how distinct you may see them in your mind as separate entities, ultimately they all boil down to one object, thought, or image in your mind. That is a perfect analogous breakdown of reality, as well.


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    9. #34
      Member BohmaN's Avatar
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      really advanced incomprehensible stuff. filosofy rather than science I&#39;d say.
      Currently practicing WILD. I quote Kaniaz who said it best: "The point of WILD is to piss me off". Though, I have not given up, far from it.

    10. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by SolSkye View Post
      The ability to discern difference doesn&#39;t make something different. It&#39;s only different, if you think it&#39;s different. Which, yes, is all a matter of perception. However, the fundamental reality of the situation is they are unequivocally indistinguishable from one another; the clock hand, the clock, and the table are all imagined or created of one thing- the mind. No matter how distinct you may see them in your mind as separate entities, ultimately they all boil down to one object, thought, or image in your mind. That is a perfect analogous breakdown of reality, as well.
      [/b]
      That&#39;s my point. Sure objects only exist as concepts which inherently only exist in one&#39;s own mind. But by this argument we would say that there is no universe (in the sense that it&#39;s an object composed of everything), only matter and energy. The only thing that could exist are the very smallest building blocks. Anything else would just be an arrangement of such blocks and therefore an object. But considering that we aren&#39;t able to see and manipulate the world at a subatomic level, it&#39;s rather useless to view things like this. To say that objects don&#39;t exist at all because the only truly exist as concepts is simply false.

      "The ability to discern difference doesn&#39;t make something different."

      If two things weren&#39;t different, there would be no difference to discern.

    11. #36
      Beyond the Poles Cyclic13's Avatar
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      I think there is no universe, and it is all a collective dream. While I stand on one side, realizing that, and equal number wish not to, thus maintaining this farce. If one begins to see that, then through understanding infinity one can begin to supersede the need to be here.

      And That&#39;s where we fundamentally agree to disagree.
      I feel, your attentions should lie with this connection to infinity, not caught up in outside distraction. You, on the otherhand, revel in distraction, and are caught up in the intoxicating grandiose material side of things being separate. The Demiurge...

      Neither of which are right or wrong. Just polar opposites that define the need for this existence- Eternal Escape of Truth, Vs. Eternal Pursuit of Truth.


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    12. #37
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      Come again? You&#39;re the one saying the universe is a dream, but I&#39;m caught in distraction? You tell me nothing has existence outside of the matter that it&#39;s composed of, and you tell me I&#39;m caught up in "the intoxicating grandiose material side of things"? Agree to disagree? Or do you mean agree that I&#39;m caught up in escaping the truth and that you&#39;re more enlightened than me?

      Honestly, you&#39;d think by what you said that conceptualizations weren&#39;t important or necessary for survival.

    13. #38
      The Esoteric Copious taltho's Avatar
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      Are You Truely Self-aware?

      I&#39;m not sure.

      Who are you?

      I&#39;m late I&#39;m late no time to say goodbye hallow I&#39;m late.

      Would you like a cup of tea?
      Reality is only one moment away form right now is reality. Check... Dream Sign... Engage Lucid Dreaming!

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    14. #39
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      I&#39;m aware that what SolSkye has said is not consistent with my illusion. Since it&#39;s all in my head and I&#39;m making it up, I must be right because you&#39;re a figment of my imagination and the rules of logic are whatever I deem them to be. Therefore, I&#39;m always right unless I don&#39;t want to be.

      Now I&#39;m going to concentrate really hard and make you explode.

    15. #40
      Beyond the Poles Cyclic13's Avatar
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      The point of this discussion wasn&#39;t to compare who&#39;s better than who. I simply don&#39;t feel that way, because none of that matters when we are here. My allegorical allusions between reality and infinity were meant to draw your attention inward. Nothing more.

      People these days are far too interested in what&#39;s happening outside of themselves that they don&#39;t even take the time to know themselves anymore, and become afraid at the slightest introspective glance inward, when in the end, that&#39;s all there is, and all that matters.

      Obviously, what I have said disturbs you in some way. It should. Perhaps, it is unsettling the very fiber of what you hold dear. As I said, one shouldn&#39;t look any further than yourself for purpose, otherwise, you let yourself go to the wayside on autopilot. You may find distraction of self fun and interesting, I don&#39;t. That is all. There is no point in debating it further, if you fail to see that minute point.


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    16. #41
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      Since we&#39;re on the topic: Among the many things you fail at is realizing that it&#39;s possible to understand oneself and things outside of oneself. And furthermore, that looking inside something is a terrible way of understanding things outside of that thing.

      "I wonder what the cup is made of, but all I can tell is that it&#39;s full of water."

    17. #42
      Beyond the Poles Cyclic13's Avatar
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      If you begin to understand yourself, the things outside yourself will cease to bear meaning other than distraction. That distinction I talked about will disintegrate, as well . You simply cannot justify yourself, through other things. It simply cannot happen. If you think you can do so, I hate to break it to you but, you would only be living a lie.

      That would certainly explain why these thought provoking ideas that force a good look inward, would cause you to be so angry. If you justify your existence through others, you should be.


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    18. #43
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      For someone who supposedly doesn&#39;t look outwards, you claim to know me pretty well.

      Too bad you&#39;re just making crap up.

    19. #44
      Beyond the Poles Cyclic13's Avatar
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      Why the terse hostility when I never showed any towards you then? Think what you must...


      The Art of War
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      Remember: be open to anything, but question everything
      "These paradoxical perceptions of our holonic higher mind are but finite fleeting constructs of the infinite ties that bind." -ME

    20. #45
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      Because unlike you, I don&#39;t waste my time with eloquence in an attempt to mask my condescending implications. Quite simply, you were making crap up. You don&#39;t have a shred of a clue how well I do or do not understand myself. And yet we clearly can see your claims to the contrary in the above posts.

      To answer your question, my terse hostility stems from the fact that the crap you just posted was baseless and insulting. I&#39;m not going to humour that as actually relevant or even logical philosophy.

    21. #46
      Beyond the Poles Cyclic13's Avatar
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      That&#39;s fine. Again, think what you must. No one told you that you needed to join the conversation, and obviously it struck a personal nerve. Just label me a pagan, and move on then.

      buh-bye.


      The Art of War
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      Remember: be open to anything, but question everything
      "These paradoxical perceptions of our holonic higher mind are but finite fleeting constructs of the infinite ties that bind." -ME

    22. #47
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      Yes it did. I just get tired of coming to this forum and reading junk like this. Go look at your first post and look at the pictures you used. If that doesn&#39;t convince you it was stupid, then I won&#39;t even bother.
      Quote Originally Posted by SolSkye View Post
      No one told you that you needed to join the conversation...
      [/b]
      Forgiveness&#33; I didn&#39;t realize you&#39;d received an official request to start this thread in the first place.


    23. #48
      Beyond the Poles Cyclic13's Avatar
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      k, buh-bye now. Don&#39;t let the meaning of existence hit you on the way out.


      In case any of you happen to be a bit confused like Mark75 there, heres a somewhat similar explanation that someone else did on video...
      Reality: The Neurological Experience

      I found this very interesting as well...
      Dream and Reality
      (In case you don&#39;t make the time to watch, here&#39;s the basic idea)
      "The moment you suspect whether it&#39;s dream or reality, you will come out of the dream. You can always see. Whenever you seriously suspect what you seeing, your awareness and attention will be turned towards the seer. Now, as long as you don&#39;t suspect the reality of what you are seeing your awareness will never be turned towards the seer." -Paramahamsa Nithyananda

      Binary System...
      Matter and Energy...Zero and One

      It&#39;s not anything new I&#39;m realizing here. This is something anyone can understand if one only took the time to be self-aware and see.


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      "These paradoxical perceptions of our holonic higher mind are but finite fleeting constructs of the infinite ties that bind." -ME

    24. #49
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      If it depresses you to know the true nature of reality then you don&#39;t truly understand.

    25. #50
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      Wow. Interesting post. I had these similar discussions over 25 years ago when I was still in high school. Needless to say that then, as now, most people, including adults, had no concept of self-realization. The teachings of Paramahansa Yogananda were very helpful in clarifying what I had experienced in my life. I have the advantage of age and the years to study the many philosophies of being so I have to agree with what Solskye is trying to convey. I have said in many posts that to truly be lucid you must be the dreamer AND the dream.
      What a long, strange trip it's been.

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