Two Methods, Same Result?

Throughout my life I have been condition a particular way. Think analytically. Use thought logic, think, think.
I have seen the success in people using this approach.
My neighbor in particular was very intelligent and was ALWAYS in thought about something.
Einstein, "question everything"
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Recent years. (much because of lucid dreaming) has inspired me to look in different directions. Because of that I have been introduced to many new ideas and concepts.
True consciousness arrives out of no thought.
meditation, a quite mind.
Our mind is often our worst enemy, getting in the way with thought where it would have acted unconsciously otherwise on a much higher plane.

I realize this to be true in some cases. The zone. Art, music, sports, reading.

It seems that most people pick one of the above.
Would it not be greater to use both when the conditions are fit?

I certainly don't know.

Thoughts?

Getting an idea popping into your head is in a way thinking too, only subconscious. Or something like that. I am totally oppsed to not-thinking, ratio, by questioning, is still a great thing that everyone should use a lot.

However, I do agree that using both can work wonders. A lot of brilliant people didn't as much Think of an idea, as just 'got' it, it popped into their heads.

But unless you are an inventer, ratio, logic thought can handle most situations you encounter.

I haven't read it myself, but the book "Blink" by an author whos name has escaped me for the time being describes the actions taken by one without thinking, subconciously (making the split-second decision to dive in front of moving car in order to push your best friend out of the way). I only heard good things about it. It's next on my "to-read" list.

What I am trying to get at, or should I say... I have been understood to believe (What an oxymoron) that our mind that has been conditioned to perceive and react in a certain way often gets IN the way of a more pure form of logic.

Yes that is quite true I would say. Normal thinking, responding to certain things as we are thought / as our instinct tells us is just a useful way to get by. For some greater questions, letting go of all formerly learned mind-clogging assumptions is sure to have some sort of benefit.

Perhaps the greatest notion of clearing the mind is that it doesn't really stop thought itself, but trains the mind to work more effectively. When we observe our own behavior, we learn to stop thinking and living reactively; this is perhaps the "false logic" that gets in our way most of the time.

These two ways of thinking are very different. Using them at the same time I don't think is possible because I believe the "real logic" to be that of the observant mind, the quiet mind you speak of. If I am wrong, and they are working together, they would need remain that way to avoid slipping back into purely leaning on new patterns of thought. They are like weeds that never go away. Your body wants a defense for everything. It takes the higher mind to see past the armor set up by the neural patterns in your brain.

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Originally Posted by Howetzer

Recent years. (much because of lucid dreaming) has inspired me to look in different directions. Because of that I have been introduced to many new ideas and concepts.
True consciousness arrives out of no thought.
meditation, a quite mind.
Our mind is often our worst enemy, getting in the way with thought where it would have acted unconsciously otherwise on a much higher plane.

I realize this to be true in some cases. The zone. Art, music, sports, reading.
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Howitzer... the above completely revolutionized my musicianship - and then the rest of my life too. Three things came into play:

- Establishing a quiet mind
- Paying attention when the quiet is disturbed and finding out why
- Dealing with it

What I discovered was that I held an absurd value in other people thinking of me as a skilled/talented/accomplished musician, and anything that threatened that was dangerous. As a result, I was unable to even objectively assess my own knowledge and ability. The result was stage fright, choking, "dry spells" and a lot more.

All of that is gone now, and the payoff just keeps coming. There has been a quantum leap in skill and ability since learning how to recognize the difference between understanding something and really knowing it. In improvising, especially, understanding forces a great deal of thought to work through things. KNOWING it means owning it - like we own our first language.

I've so learned to enjoy the quiet mind that these principles have been extended to the rest of my life as well. That's the place I want to live... not just visit occasionally.

I agree