Observations About Life

I have a bunch of random observations/life sayings I have thought of, and wanted to share them, and see what people think about it. Also, just post your own observations on life, the universe, and everything. Anyways, here are mine:

Violence is not the answer unless the provoked by violence in the first place

I despise the saying "violence is not the answer" because in many situations it is the only way to protect yourself and others and to bring about changes. The thing is that I have noticed that these situations is that they are brought about always be some kind of violence in the first place almost always. Take for example World War II. Saying that it wasn't right for other nations to fight back against the Nazis is ridiculous, and it was the only way to stop them, but if the Nazis hadn't started their unprovoked violent drive for domination in the first place, this violent response would be completely unnecessary.

Life's a bitch. The bitch of those who are successful

I thought of this one thinking about how some people have such hard lives, while others are successful, and have control of their life. I realized that those without success often sit back in the sidelines and do not try hard enough to take control and make themselves more than just another person, while the ones that are successful (self-made, not those that are just born with a silver spoon in their mouth), grab life by the horns and decide they want to be more, and take control of their lives and get somewhere. I am not saying that all people who do not succeed are because they didn't try hard enough; things happen that keep people from success, but this is just a general observation for many people.

Nobody gives a damn. You have to take it (this one is actually from early on in the movie "The Departed")

Similarly to the last one. If there is something I can't stand it is the people who have nothing and don't try to change it and do something about it. I am not talking to the people in Africa for example where they just need outside help due to the extreme poverty, but am referring to many people in rich societies like America, where for generations and generations families keep making the same mistakes and end up working in a McDonalds living off welfare, and being a tax burden for the simple reason that they do not have the motivation and belief in themselves to try to get somewhere else in life. I don't believe most people are stuck in poverty because their parents were so poor. I think it is because they are taught (even unintentionally) that they are "stuck" and can't do anything about it, and therefore aren't motivated to change that.

You MUST fail to succeed....or.....there is no success without failure....

Every time you look up at the sky and you think that you get an overwelming sense which people associate with an epiphany where you realise how large the universe is... times that feeling by the largest number your mind can process and you would not even be able to imagine even 0.0000000000001% of the universe as we know it....

If God is all powerful howcome it took him/her 7 days to create the world...

Words are just ways to communicate feeling from one person to another... if we were able to strongly communicate feelings directly then we would have evolved to do so, instead of speaking it...so that leads to (as close to proof as anyone can get) the conclusion that humans are not able to sense each others feelings....

Did humans discover the laws of the universe or create them, as we arre smarter to those who lived 100s of years ago then we should be able to prove them wrong and through intelligence and wisdom finally break laws which we created...

Ignorance is bliss

Oft quoted, but terribly incorrect. People are always 'proportionately' happy/unhappy (depending on which side of it you choose to look at). As you become more aware of things and commit to critical thinking more often, you may or may not push aside the 'common' problems of life. Either way, new 'problems' you may encounter (usually increasingly abstract as you analyze things [existence of afterlife, nihlistic thought, etc]) may also add weight to any depression or unhappiness.

Don't be afraid to toot your own horn, because nobody else will do it for you. No one has the time.

"When you can stop
You don't want to
When you want to stop
You can't"
~ Casper, from the movie Candy

Life and existance mean absolutely nothing, but they do because I say so.

What I am saying here, is that objectively, or looking from a greater perspective, (human) life means shit. We are just a bunch of atoms, molecules, that happen to be in a certain place. Though evolution, certain systems of self replication came to be, while actually life is as special as every single rock. Life has no higher meaning, we live because we do. What does suffering matter? Just a bunch of neurotransmitters giving some signals? Big deal? Just more star-dust busy in a cascade of events. Even more destroying all meaning are things like the M-theory. You saved that puppy from drowning? Way to go, dipshit: In another universe the puppy did die. In another you drowned too. In another you both got raped.

However, life does has 'meaning'. It has meaning in the sense, that I gave it meaning. In a way, everything is in our head. I am not saying matter doesn't exist or some far fetched stuff like that, but everything is subjective, without being less true. I do care about saving that puppy, or about not hurting other people, because I gave meaning to those things... I hope you people get the point : )

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Originally Posted by Neruo

Life and existance mean absolutely nothing, but they do because I say so.

What I am saying here, is that objectively, or looking from a greater perspective, (human) life means shit. We are just a bunch of atoms, molecules, that happen to be in a certain place. Though evolution, certain systems of self replication came to be, while actually life is as special as every single rock. Life has no higher meaning, we live because we do. What does suffering matter? Just a bunch of neurotransmitters giving some signals? Big deal? Just more star-dust busy in a cascade of events. Even more destroying all meaning are things like the M-theory. You saved that puppy from drowning? Way to go, dipshit: In another universe the puppy did die. In another you drowned too. In another you both got raped.

However, life does has 'meaning'. It has meaning in the sense, that I gave it meaning. In a way, everything is in our head. I am not saying matter doesn't exist or some far fetched stuff like that, but everything is subjective, without being less true. I do care about saving that puppy, or about not hurting other people, because I gave meaning to those things... I hope you people get the point : )[/b]

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That is so true. We, as humans, are just carbon-based life forms that have reached sentience, civilized, and made the world to our wants due to our capable anatomy (opposable thumbs, plus upright posture), and our brain capacity. We are no more special than any fish out there, or any one-celled organism, or even a useless piece of rock, and nothing we do matters in the grand scheme of things. At the same time, we have given ourselves a meaning, set ourselves codes to live by, etc., and without that we wouldn't be what we are now. Though it doesn't matter we care because it is in our head. When you think about it, things like greed, power, hate, and love are nothing more than natural traits that most species need to survive, but to us they mean more because our mind makes it so.

When a door closes, another one is opening... Keep your eyes open for opening doors!

That is the way to be successful, if you look at the opportunities you're given, you'll see you're always getting more and more of them.

We must look at ourselves before we look at other people. When we criticise someone, we're loosing a valuable chance to change something inside of us.

What does it matter if you're sad or happy? When you're in the highs or the lows, at least you're not stuck in neutrallity...

A few people have the quote,

"The greatest temptation to quit, comes when you are about to succeed."

in their signatures.

So true.

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Originally Posted by Neruo

Life and existance mean absolutely nothing, but they do because I say so.

What I am saying here, is that objectively, or looking from a greater perspective, (human) life means shit. We are just a bunch of atoms, molecules, that happen to be in a certain place. Though evolution, certain systems of self replication came to be, while actually life is as special as every single rock. Life has no higher meaning, we live because we do. What does suffering matter? Just a bunch of neurotransmitters giving some signals? Big deal? Just more star-dust busy in a cascade of events. Even more destroying all meaning are things like the M-theory. You saved that puppy from drowning? Way to go, dipshit: In another universe the puppy did die. In another you drowned too. In another you both got raped.

However, life does has 'meaning'. It has meaning in the sense, that I gave it meaning. In a way, everything is in our head. I am not saying matter doesn't exist or some far fetched stuff like that, but everything is subjective, without being less true. I do care about saving that puppy, or about not hurting other people, because I gave meaning to those things... I hope you people get the point : )[/b]

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I'm new here and don't know anybody very well but this hits one of my favorite things to talk about.

While your body may be a bunch of molecules that will whither away and crumble into dust when it dies, it is a very good vessel in which an intelligent consciousness can "live" and experience the material universe, collect information/experience, and take that collection back to the spiritual universe and add it to the larger body of knowledge there.

Most scientists believe life is simply an epiphenomenon, a by-product, of the material universe. I.e., it's just a happy accident that life occurred and evolved into intelligent beings. But some physicists have recently started to investigate the role of consciousness in the universe and feel that consciousness preceded matter or that the two cannot exist without each other.

I now believe that there was and is a grand consciousness, present since or perhaps before the big bang, and a piece of that consciousness dwells in each of us. Why? So that the grand consciousness can learn about itself. Basically, we're all reporters sent here to "get the story" and report back what we find out.

I also think that lucid dreaming is but a hint that a world of consciousness, a spiritual world, exists. That is, a hint to those of us who have forgotten where we came from.

Just my 2 cents. You may proceed to poke holes in it. :bigteeth:

Yeah, PenguinLord13, nice to see someone understands what I was saying :)

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Originally Posted by EddieSpaghetti

I'm new here and don't know anybody very well but this hits one of my favorite things to talk about.[/b]

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No problem, welcome.

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While your body may be a bunch of molecules that will whither away and crumble into dust when it dies, it is a very good vessel in which an intelligent consciousness can "live" and experience the material universe, collect information/experience, and take that collection back to the spiritual universe and add it to the larger body of knowledge there.

Most scientists believe life is simply an epiphenomenon, a by-product, of the material universe. I.e., it's just a happy accident that life occurred and evolved into intelligent beings. But some physicists have recently started to investigate the role of consciousness in the universe and feel that consciousness preceded matter or that the two cannot exist without each other.

I now believe that there was and is a grand consciousness, present since or perhaps before the big bang, and a piece of that consciousness dwells in each of us. Why? So that the grand consciousness can learn about itself. Basically, we're all reporters sent here to "get the story" and report back what we find out.

I also think that lucid dreaming is but a hint that a world of consciousness, a spiritual world, exists. That is, a hint to those of us who have forgotten where we came from.

Just my 2 cents. You may proceed to poke holes in it. :bigteeth:[/b]

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Ah. The 'Grand conscious' theory, or some variation on it. A 'spiritual world/universe' as you call it. It is a pretty well-known hypothesis. Even I believe there might be something similar to it, in a way. However, big difference, I believe it is purely 'man-made', it didn't exist before mankind, as you said. I believe that if it might exist, and perhaps it might, it can be scientifically explained. I don't think it is metaphysical, godly or anything magic like that.

My biggest argument against it is: How do you explain evolution if this 'Grand conscious' exist? It would mean something directed evolution, right?. I mean, do we just tap into it, or is it almost 'designed' for humans? Otherwise, can animals also tap into it? Don't forget all our minds are, is some electric interaction between cells. It really doesn't sound logic to me that there is some special universe for our minds, that did nothing for 99.99% of the time of the universe.

Lets say it is (subconsciously) 'man-made': it wasn't always around, or lets say it exists because it can, assuming there is an infinity of universes, including that spiritual one, outside our material universe. In the first case: What connects all those people? In the universe-case: how can our brain-waves or whatever pass trough to another universe, while nothing we know can?


Basically, it by far isn't impossible, there just isn't any proof what so ever, expect for some cases that don't mean much.

For instance, often people that get a genius idea say they felt like they didn't come up with it, but that they just 'received' it, as it they plucked it from a well of thought outside of their own mind. But does that means there is such an uber-conscious? Maybe our minds just work in a way that makes us feel that way. As in the same way that I think Chi is bullshit, but those chi-channeling stuff monks do actually works on some physiological/neurological level (and not on a 'magical', weird-energy-flows level).

There's much more to this dense material world. Have you ever heard of String Theory?

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Originally Posted by Neruo

Yeah, PenguinLord13, nice to see someone understands what I was saying :)
No problem, welcome.
Ah. The 'Grand conscious' theory, or some variation on it. A 'spiritual world/universe' as you call it. It is a pretty well-known hypothesis. Even I believe there might be something similar to it, in a way. However, big difference, I believe it is purely 'man-made', it didn't exist before mankind, as you said. I believe that if it might exist, and perhaps it might, it can be scientifically explained. I don't think it is metaphysical, godly or anything magic like that.

My biggest argument against it is: How do you explain evolution if this 'Grand conscious' exist? It would mean something directed evolution, right?. I mean, do we just tap into it, or is it almost 'designed' for humans? Otherwise, can animals also tap into it? Don't forget all our minds are, is some electric interaction between cells. It really doesn't sound logic to me that there is some special universe for our minds, that did nothing for 99.99% of the time of the universe.

Lets say it is (subconsciously) 'man-made': it wasn't always around, or lets say it exists because it can, assuming there is an infinity of universes, including that spiritual one, outside our material universe. In the first case: What connects all those people? In the universe-case: how can our brain-waves or whatever pass trough to another universe, while nothing we know can?


Basically, it by far isn't impossible, there just isn't any proof what so ever, expect for some cases that don't mean much.

For instance, often people that get a genius idea say they felt like they didn't come up with it, but that they just 'received' it, as it they plucked it from a well of thought outside of their own mind. But does that means there is such an uber-conscious? Maybe our minds just work in a way that makes us feel that way. As in the same way that I think Chi is bullshit, but those chi-channeling stuff monks do actually works on some physiological/neurological level (and not on a 'magical', weird-energy-flows level).[/b]

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I am also interested in how science will "discover" a spiritual universe, if it exists. My point above was that some scientists are indeed looking to explain the phenomena of "consciousness" not as a by-product of matter but as a partner with matter. If such a thing as a spiritual world exists, it must be discovered, like electricity or gravity, rather than invented, like purgatory or needing special permission to enter the afterlife.

"Designed for humans"? Whatever it is, it has to apply to any living creature whatever planet they live on so this is not a earth or human centric concept. If some kind of consciousness is behind evolution, it does the best it can at its own pace to create intelligent, articulate creatures that can store information for making decisions.

We are not our bodies. I am not my hands. You are not your eyes. The only question is the brain. But I don't think the "I" back here behind my eyes is the "me" either. The "I" is a consciousness not made of matter so this is at least one place we disagree. Proof of that will have to come from more intelligent beings that can devise tests for it. If you don't suspect it's there, you don't look or test for it.

I believe the consciousness that resides in each of us survives physical death of the body. It is not bound by time or distance. It plays a role in what we call psychic ability. When the body dies, it may hold beliefs that prevent it from understanding what is happening. For example, I think ghosts are dead people who are convinced there is no afterlife and are able to resist the usual return of the consciousness to the grand consciousness.

I greatly envy people who LD so easily and freely. I think such people are in the best position to explore these things.

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Originally Posted by petersonad

There's much more to this dense material world. Have you ever heard of String Theory?[/b]

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You speak as though that were a fact, and yet in the next sentence you use the word "theory."


This tree stands lonely here in the mountains; it grew high above man and beast. And if it wanted to speak it would have nobody who could understand it, so high has it grown. Now it waits and waits - for what is it waiting? It dwells too near the seat of the clouds: surely, it waits for the first lightning.
--Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

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Originally Posted by M

You speak as though that were a fact, and yet in the next sentence you use the word "theory."
This tree stands lonely here in the mountains; it grew high above man and beast. And if it wanted to speak it would have nobody who could understand it, so high has it grown. Now it waits and waits - for what is it waiting? It dwells too near the seat of the clouds: surely, it waits for the first lightning.
--Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra[/b]

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I took Music Theory in college. I was heartbroken to learn that it's just a theory. I read a book on Color Theory and dang if it wasn't just a theory too!

The difficulty with String Theory, from what I've read, is that it cannot be proven/disproven because the particles it describes are too small to detect. We have no way to "zoom in" on something that small so-to-speak.

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Originally Posted by EddieSpaghetti

I took Music Theory in college. I was heartbroken to learn that it's just a theory. I read a book on Color Theory and dang if it wasn't just a theory too!

The difficulty with String Theory, from what I've read, is that it cannot be proven/disproven because the particles it describes are too small to detect. We have no way to "zoom in" on something that small so-to-speak.[/b]

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Strings are not particles.

All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream. -Edgar Allen Poe

At any point within the experience of perception you remain trapped in a self-imposed cage, a lie. A dream wrapped within a dream wrapped in a dream trapped in infinity. Even if a higher consciousness existed it would be equally a lie as this 'reality' is. You go to heaven or hell to realize it is as much a construct of your mind as this reality is. A self-imposed infinite journey of self-realization where the ultimate end result leaves you realizing no more need to exist or realize. You ultimately realize you have to become the dream, and the process loops back in on itself, infinitely. Why in the world would you believe perfection remains synonymous with perception? Perfection bypasses all this noise we exist in right now. It is 'the now', 'the infinite moment' in which all superfluous layers seemingly exist...

"in the kingdom of the two legged, the amputees always have shoes for sale but a limited customer base."

"it is unwise to get sand in the vaseline"

"you can't polish a turd"

"dont pick at it, it'll only get worse"

"worse things happen at sea"

"better things happen if you have a boat"

"beaureaucrat, politician and salesman are all just other words for cunt"

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Originally Posted by M

Strings are not particles.[/b]

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You sure? Okay. Subparticles. Objects.

String theory uses "strings" instead of point-like particles described in the standard model. But ultimately the various string theories attempt to describe the fundamental constitients of matter.

I am and will always be me.

Very simple to some, but extremely complex to me. Why do I look the way I do? Why am I the host behind this body, this layer of skin? Is it strange that I am never going to see myself the way my friends see me? Whenever I look in the mirror, I sometimes just browse my features and look into my own eyes. Weird, sure, but when you think about it, you're never going to able to change yourself and you will always just be you.

You can change onbody - only yourself, forcing others to adapt and only then you can change others.

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Originally Posted by petersonad

There's much more to this dense material world. Have you ever heard of String Theory?[/b]

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OMG REALLY?!?!

Yes, so? Just because everything I touch is 99% empty space and 1% neutrons, protons and electrons doesn't mean it is less solid. Also, who cares if about 95% of that matter also is either dark matter or dark energy. It doesn't change anything, it still is substituted to the same rules. Now that I know my chair is made out of mostly dark matter or energy instead of normal matter doesn't mean I am going to fall through it.

Actually, string theory was about the 10/11 dimensions curled into our one, right?

Don't get me wrong, really interesting if it appears al gravitons actually hop in and out or dimensions from 10 other dimensions, thus explaining gravity properly on a quantum mechanic level, but that doesn't make a 'spirit world' existent all of a sudden.

It does not even increase the chance of such a place existing.

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Originally Posted by petersonad

I am also interested in how science will "discover" a spiritual universe, if it exists. My point above was that some scientists are indeed looking to explain the phenomena of "consciousness" not as a by-product of matter but as a partner with matter. If such a thing as a spiritual world exists, it must be discovered, like electricity or gravity, rather than invented, like purgatory or needing special permission to enter the afterlife.[/b]

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Here we disagree. First of all, I never heard of any scientist that are looking into the same hypothesis you have. Secondly, I do not think that if a spiritual link between humans exist, it is not 'uber-human', not metaphysical, not eternal. I think such a place would just be 'created' when the first intelligent lifeforms appeared.

Actually, I think even that is highly unlikely, 20% chance at the highest.

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"Designed for humans"? Whatever it is, it has to apply to any living creature whatever planet they live on so this is not a earth or human centric concept. If some kind of consciousness is behind evolution, it does the best it can at its own pace to create intelligent, articulate creatures that can store information for making decisions.[/b]

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If the special spiritual-realm was not predestined for humans, what is so special about our atoms that we can reach that 'universe' (or the 'universe' can reach us)? Why can't a rock's atoms reach that place? Or a bacteria? Or a plant? Or a fly?

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We are not our bodies. I am not my hands. You are not your eyes. The only question is the brain. But I don't think the "I" back here behind my eyes is the "me" either. The "I" is a consciousness not made of matter so this is at least one place we disagree. Proof of that will have to come from more intelligent beings that can devise tests for it. If you don't suspect it's there, you don't look or test for it.[/b]

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We disagree there. I know that "I" isn't my hands or anything. But I think "I" is a completely self-created, subjective entity. When we grow, our minds make an "I" because evolution proved and "I" is a useful thing to have. It might not feel like just that, but in the end the "I" is just purely made from a grid of electronic signals. It isn't even as much matter, it more is the interactions of our brain-matter we consist of.

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I believe the consciousness that resides in each of us survives physical death of the body. It is not bound by time or distance. It plays a role in what we call psychic ability. When the body dies, it may hold beliefs that prevent it from understanding what is happening. For example, I think ghosts are dead people who are convinced there is no afterlife and are able to resist the usual return of the consciousness to the grand consciousness.[/b]

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Yoy. Souls and such. A soul makes no evolutionary sense, I am sorry. Does a bacteria have a soul? When in evolution did the soul came along? In what medium does the soul travel after death? Isn't it so, that no mind can think properly without blood flow and such? Why would a soul disconnected from the body gain the ability to think without oxygen and such, while before it could not?

There is a reason our brain consists of 100.000.000.000 braincells, because we use it to hold our complex little "I". If the soul, the I, was completely outside matter (and thus could survive death), we wouldn't need such a big head. Also, since if you remove or stimulate certain parts of the brain, the motor-functions, the personality, the perception, everything changes, what is left of 'soul' if taken out of the physical brain? Or does it 'magically' not get influenced all of a sudden?

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I greatly envy people who LD so easily and freely. I think such people are in the best position to explore these things.[/b]

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You don't honestly think that a dreamworld is anything besides a creation of our own mind and nothing else? A dreamword is a reality in itself, but a personal reality, far away from empiricism.

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Yoy. Souls and such. A soul makes no evolutionary sense, I am sorry. Does a bacteria have a soul? When in evolution did the soul came along? In what medium does the soul travel after death? Isn't it so, that no mind can think properly without blood flow and such? Why would a soul disconnected from the body gain the ability to think without oxygen and such, while before it could not?

There is a reason our brain consists of 100.000.000.000 braincells, because we use it to hold our complex little "I". If the soul, the I, was completely outside matter (and thus could survive death), we wouldn't need such a big head. Also, since if you remove or stimulate certain parts of the brain, the motor-functions, the personality, the perception, everything changes, what is left of 'soul' if taken out of the physical brain? Or does it 'magically' not get influenced all of a sudden?[/b]

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Interesting input.
Could someone who's very into this subject please give me an counter-post to this? It would be interesting to read. I'm still confused whether there's a soul or not. There are strong arguments for and against I think.

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Originally Posted by BohmaN

Interesting input.
Could someone who's very into this subject please give me an counter-post to this? It would be interesting to read. I'm still confused whether there's a soul or not. There are strong arguments for and against I think.[/b]

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There are some arguments perhaps indirectly for. Like people feeling like they feel the presence of dead people. But a soul, especially the eternal (goes to heaven and such) kind of soul, really doesn't make any sense (to me) if held to the light of evolution (of the entire universe).

Neruo, I don't believe in a soul in the christian sense of it because I believe at any point in our perceptions, be it higher or lower, you are just convoluting your 'self' with distraction, and therein lies the 'why' to existence. I don't think the meaning goes any deeper than that regarding this material world, or any world that follows. But I would hardly find it to be only a cosmic coincidence. My personal reason being, I constantly have these weird intuitions, two minute deja vu's, reading peoples' personalities through their auras, etc. where people around me end up being freaked out and I'm so used to them I just laugh. It just provides me with more and more proof of this just being one big dream.

Here's an example from yesterday, actually. Right after I was finished typing that dream within a dream quote from Poe I had to teach someone some English and I decided to do a lesson on proverbs and towards the end of the lesson the student asked me, "Do you know japanese calligraphy?"
To which I responded, "Yeah but I've never actually seen it done."
As I say this I start to write that Poe quote, "All that we ever see or seem, is but a dream within a dream." and before I get a chance to show it and explain it to her she starts to show me a picture of some calligraphy her friend drew, taken on her cell phone. Before I read it I just knew it would somehow tie into what I had just wrote so I laughed and read it, which it translated to, "All of what is happening now, is just someone's dream from long ago". She then asked me how you would say that in english, to which I just pointed her to the thing I had already written down and smiled and said, "Yeah, weird isn't it? These kind of things happen to me all the time."

Sure you can write those experiences off as mere coincidences but when they happen as frequently as they do to me it's kind of hard to do that. I don't think some all-powerful consciousness is trying to tell me some deep-seated meaning, I think I'm just open to the connection we all have as just one gargantuan dream character sitting in a room twiddling their thumbs.

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Interesting input.
Could someone who's very into this subject please give me an counter-post to this? It would be interesting to read. I'm still confused.........have i got a soul or not? etc

you have. i have most scientific of proof, a test if you will for you to tell if you have a soul or not

'yes you do its on the bottom of your foot'

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Originally Posted by Neruo

Don't get me wrong, really interesting if it appears al gravitons actually hop in and out or dimensions from 10 other dimensions, thus explaining gravity properly on a quantum mechanic level, but that doesn't make a 'spirit world' existent all of a sudden.

It does not even increase the chance of such a place existing.
Here we disagree. First of all, I never heard of any scientist that are looking into the same hypothesis you have. Secondly, I do not think that if a spiritual link between humans exist, it is not 'uber-human', not metaphysical, not eternal. I think such a place would just be 'created' when the first intelligent lifeforms appeared.[/b]

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There are many physicists around who think consciousness preceded matter, and I mean "consciousness" in the sense of a soul that never dies and resides in a spiritual realm but occasionally occupies biological entities in the material realm. Do a google search on consciousness and quantum physics and you'll find some of them. Some of them are attempting to explain why the act of observation can affect the outcome of scientific experiments.

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Actually, I think even that is highly unlikely, 20% chance at the highest.
If the special spiritual-realm was not predestined for humans, what is so special about our atoms that we can reach that 'universe' (or the 'universe' can reach us)? Why can't a rock's atoms reach that place? Or a bacteria? Or a plant? Or a fly?[/b]

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If there is a spiritual realm, it does not consist of matter, so nobody's "atoms" make it there. And many biologists have noted that small creatures, even single cells, react to things that make it seem like they are conscious. But who knows what they will find? It's a fairly new area of scientific research. If the cells of your body are indeed conscious, at least to some degree, it may be a model for how the universe works in that collections of conscious entities serve the needs of a larger consciousness but are entirely oblivious to the intentions of the larger consciousness.

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We disagree there. I know that "I" isn't my hands or anything. But I think "I" is a completely self-created, subjective entity. When we grow, our minds make an "I" because evolution proved and "I" is a useful thing to have. It might not feel like just that, but in the end the "I" is just purely made from a grid of electronic signals. It isn't even as much matter, [i]it more is the interactions of our brain-matter we consist of.[/b]

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I don't think the bzzzt in my brain is me. My conscious "I" causes the bzzzzt.

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Yoy. Souls and such. A soul makes no evolutionary sense, I am sorry. Does a bacteria have a soul? When in evolution did the soul came along? In what medium does the soul travel after death? Isn't it so, that no mind can think properly without blood flow and such? Why would a soul disconnected from the body gain the ability to think without oxygen and such, while before it could not?[/b]

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Actually, I think it makes perfect sense that a soul "evolves". A consciousness is somehow imbued into a living organism and reincarnates repeatedly, maturing each time. How that's done, I just don't know. Where do new souls come form? Good question.

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There is a reason our brain consists of 100.000.000.000 braincells, because we use it to hold our complex little "I". If the soul, the I, was completely outside matter (and thus could survive death), we wouldn't need such a big head. Also, since if you remove or stimulate certain parts of the brain, the motor-functions, the personality, the perception, everything changes, what is left of 'soul' if taken out of the physical brain? Or does it 'magically' not get influenced all of a sudden?

You don't honestly think that a dreamworld is anything besides a creation of our own mind and nothing else? A dreamword is a reality in itself, but a personal reality, far away from empiricism.[/b]

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I think our dreams are mostly unreal constructions that exist only while we dream them. But I also think that the soul is able to leave the body and wander the same physical reality that we occupy in our waking moments. I strongly suspect that lucid dreaming is a first step in learning to do this. At least, I hope it is.

There have been many paranormal studies showing that various kinds of psychic ability are present in some people. In fact, they have advanced out of the proof-of-concept phase and into the application phase. The most striking feature to me is that it does not matter how far away or how long ago something happened or will happen: time and distance do not degrade the psychic ability to see them. They call this "nonlocality". Our current mainstream scientific understanding says this is impossible yet it happens. So something is wrong with our mainstream understanding.

Sol Skye. There's a theory that simply states that all matter is consciousness (or thought).

Here's the article: Everthing-is-Mind

Solsky you have some great abilities there. Have you checked out www.psipog.net ?

SolSkye, I've actually thought about that myself. I've also had weird experiences like that - I was, and still am, severely struck by deja vu every now and then. I've thought sometimes that maybe life is just a dream. I'm not 100% about it, but I'm not 100% about anything.

Some great thoughts going through this thread.

Deja vus creep me out every time I have them and just like you guys it reminds me of the possibility that this could be just one big dream... What's the non-scientifical explanation to deja vus? :)

The interpretation of good and evil is the root of human nature.

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Originally Posted by CoLd

SolSkye, I've actually thought about that myself. I've also had weird experiences like that - I was, and still am, severely struck by deja vu every now and then. I've thought sometimes that maybe life is just a dream. I'm not 100% about it, but I'm not 100% about anything.

Some great thoughts going through this thread.[/b]

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Nothing is certain, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by M

You speak as though that were a fact, and yet in the next sentence you use the word "theory."[/b]

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Gravity is a theory as well, it seems to be true because it has yet to be disproved, but it is and always will be a theory.

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Originally Posted by M

Strings are not particles.[/b]

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But particles are strings! or, depending on the theory you subscribe to, strings and/or branes.

As fun as arguing about matter is (perhaps we should start another thread, eh?), I like the original idea behind this thread. Here goes.

Nothing of great value comes easy.

Perhaps if you are a lucky thief you may find things of great price that come easy (I say lucky because being a good thief would take a bit of work, I assume) but in the grand scheme of things cash matters little. Things like happiness, health, skill, knowledge, intelligence... they all take work. If ever they find a way to upload information directly into the brain, making school unnecessary, I think I'll pass. The value in an education come from the fact that its not easy. If one person worked to understand a topic, and the other understood it some other way, I think the one who worked for it will be better able to use that understanding. Difficulty is integral to value, embrace it.

The universe looks out for those who look out for it.

Have you ever noticed that hurtful/greedy/manipulative people always have something to complain about? Rich or poor, powerful or oppressed, anguish finds its way to the people who deserve it. helpful/friendly/honest people, despite the fact that they may seem disadvantaged, always tend to find a way to be Ok. Its true that bad things happen to good people, but I think that bad things happen to bad people more often (and the bad people never bounce back as quickly as the good'uns).

First: Solskye, real intresting, but just because you sometimes have weird deja-vu's proves nothing. There isn't a single, proper, documented proof of any 'super powers' like you claim to have. Sure, it sometimes might seem like you guessed something you couldn't have rationally know, but that is just the way the mind works.

Bottom line: (over dramatization:) "omg I just know I am righte becuz I haif seen god/allah/magic pony/magic powers." really really is bad 'proof' for any hypothesis. Millions also claim to have seen Gods, Mystical creatures, a lot more things we can be certain of do not exist.

Seriously, try finding some proper proof of the magical world you talk of.

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Originally Posted by EddieSpaghetti

There are many physicists around who think consciousness preceded matter, and I mean "consciousness" in the sense of a soul that never dies and resides in a spiritual realm but occasionally occupies biological entities in the material realm. Do a google search on consciousness and quantum physics and you'll find some of them. Some of them are attempting to explain why the act of observation can affect the outcome of scientific experiments.[/b]

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I think there is a more... lets say Logical, less far-fetched reason for that.

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If there is a spiritual realm, it does not consist of matter, so nobody's "atoms" make it there. And many biologists have noted that small creatures, even single cells, react to things that make it seem like they are conscious. But who knows what they will find? It's a fairly new area of scientific research. If the cells of your body are indeed conscious, at least to some degree, it may be a model for how the universe works in that collections of conscious entities serve the needs of a larger consciousness but are entirely oblivious to the intentions of the larger consciousness.[/b]

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I would like to see where you read that bacteria have conscious like we know it. It would be extremely unlikely for a bacteria (or other single-celled organism for that mater) that have Anything to do with a soul. Basically, because there are no 'missing links'. Bacteria really act just like robots, some relatively simple processes makes it work. Where does the soul come in to play? Where does it even 'connect' with the physical realm?

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Actually, I think it makes perfect sense that a soul "evolves". A consciousness is somehow imbued into a living organism and reincarnates repeatedly, maturing each time. How that's done, I just don't know. Where do new souls come form? Good question.[/b]

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Haha. Sure. If people are all reincarnated of former souls, of one big well of conscious, then maybe they would learn from history, something people clearly do not. Also, no-one happens to remember what happened in 20.000 B.C.

What exactly is remained with the passing of those souls? It isn't knowledge.

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I think our dreams are mostly unreal constructions that exist only while we dream them. But I also think that the soul is able to leave the body and wander the same physical reality that we occupy in our waking moments. I strongly suspect that lucid dreaming is a first step in learning to do this. At least, I hope it is.[/b]

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Haha, so people can leave their body and travel to where ever they want.. in the REAL world? You have to be kidding me. What a bunch of nonsense, souls existent or not. It sounds really fun, but is that the only reason you believe that?

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There have been many paranormal studies showing that various kinds of psychic ability are present in some people. In fact, they have advanced out of the proof-of-concept phase and into the application phase. The most striking feature to me is that it does not matter how far away or how long ago something happened or will happen: time and distance do not degrade the psychic ability to see them. They call this "nonlocality". Our current mainstream scientific understanding says this is impossible yet it happens. So something is wrong with our mainstream understanding.[/b]

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Actually, no. There are no proper studies at all that 'prove' paranormal powers exist. Believe me, if such things were possible, everyone would know.

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If you want to believe that nonsense without proper reasons but 'it sounds good' and 'I know, because I thought about my dog and all of a sudden it came in the room'.

---------------

Okay, kind of off topic there.

Some nice quote:

Dangerous isn't what you do not know, but what you think you know for sure but just aint so.

Forgot by who.

{OFF TOPIC} Neuro, paranormal powers do exist. I once had a dream that I am 99.999% positive was precognitive {/OFF TOPIC}

Observation:
When people are angry, they are usualy really angry about something else that they previously repressed.

For example: a friend insults you, you repress it and pretend you don't care. A week later this friend does some little annoying thing, like making an annoying noise when eating, or critizing a film that you like, and suddently you feel furious without proportion to the thing the friend just did.

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Originally Posted by Neruo

If you want to believe that nonsense without proper reasons but 'it sounds good' and 'I know, because I thought about my dog and all of a sudden it came in the room'.[/b]

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I was led to some of those beliefs by spending a lot of time in books and papers written on the things you so quickly dismiss. My posts are just to share some of my beliefs and observations about life in a thread on that very topic. I did come to my beliefs with what I think are proper reasons. I did NOT set out to prove anything or convince anybody. But your earlier replies indicated you have not looked very hard or deeply so I figured I'd help you out.

You seem pretty young to me. You think you're pretty smart. You're convinced that your limited perspective and shallow knowledge will suffice on things that philosophers and scientists have been wrestling with for centuries.

First, you should get a good handle on what people mean by "consciousness". What is it? How do you know when something is conscious? Defining it is way more difficult than you think. Single-cell creatures exhibit decision-making capabilties and therefore, in the opinion of many who have set out to study it, qualifies as conscious. The studies supporting that conclusion are out there.

Second, you should take a good long look at what has been done in the field of paranormal studies. Psychic abilities are not only proven, but are being used in applications. The studies supporting this are out there. The applications are not-so-public.

Third, this is NOT information that is simply going to come to you. You DO have to go get it. You will NOT get it from CNN or Time Magazine or the Daily Show. Not everybody is in agreement on these matters, but how is that different from anything else?

One's will and intention are powerful tools. If one were to believe in something long enough to be true, it will inevitably eventually seem to become true, even if in only that one person's mind. For example, if you believe in the finite dance of 1's and 0's that make up math formulas long enough to be 100% true, and get enough peoples' will and intention behind them backing it you can definitely make some marvelous scientific discoveries. However, all that infinite knowledge we supposedly tap into already pre-exists, within our minds. We have always had the ability to create or destroy universes, and tinker with the very fabric of what it is to exist, all found in our minds. We have many endless wonders of the world that go without explanation that predate our current scientific belief system, and yet we still have no clue as to how mankind at that level was able to accomplish some of these marvelous feats for it's time. All ideas regarding them still remain speculation. (ie. Stonehenge, Easter Island, Pyramids, etc. etc.) In the end, 'Everything changes but nothing changes...'

We are only able to construct what our supposed finite minds believe are capable of grasping at any given moment. Even quantum physicists are left baffled and scratching their heads at some of the incomprehensible dead ends reached using rational thought, results that throw the entire scientific community for a loop. As I've said before, 'Every answered question, leaves you with another question to answer...'. Up and down, and round and round, on our infinite merry-go-round ride between 1 and 0.
The Infamous Double Slit Experiment

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Originally Posted by Neruo

First: Solskye, real intresting, but just because you sometimes have weird deja-vu's proves nothing. There isn't a single, proper, documented proof of any 'super powers' like you claim to have. Sure, it sometimes might seem like you guessed something you couldn't have rationally know, but that is just the way the mind works.[/b]

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Firstly, There isn't a single, proper piece of documentation in the world that can truely prove that this 'reality' is indeed 'real' so that arguement in itself is bunk. Sure, we have our five senses but even science admits to our sense's limitations, and being incapable of truely perceiving all the variables of the entire world around us. So, then what exactly is real? our limited perception of the senses?... the infinite perceptions of the mind? ...results reached through rational thought? ...or counterintuitive irrational thought? Just what exactly makes anyone an authority to deem what is or isn't real?

Secondly, I never said I necessarily believe in said attributes or abilities I claim to possess, but rather just question all that I see before me and believe that there is something more behind the glossy veneer of this experience than just some sad simple cosmic coincidence. While, I don't believe in some bearded fool sittin atop some throne, I can admit that what we are experiencing right now, whatever that may be, is real. Whether this reality we interact and perceive in is as real as it gets, or merely perceptions of our infinite mind interacting with itself- a mirror reflecting the positive and negative forces that make up our true self. It really is of no consequence either way. The 'why' behind existence falls upon the individual and you decide that for yourself. If you feel that it's pointless and existence is all one big delusion then, in the end when all fades out to black, thats it. Lights out. The end. And you end up being right. If you feel or think there is somehow a higher realm awaiting you, then you simply create one for yourself in your mind where you take as much time as is necessary to eventually realize your need to be there was as much a construct of a fear of nothingness as this realm is.

Some people just spend their time in distraction and fear of realizing their true self, and that's perfectly fine. It inevitably couldn't have happened any other way. However, we all eventually have to come to that self-realization...just as we all eventually choose to decide to run away from it...the when, the why, and which direction you head is all up to you in this infinite dance of infinity between 1 and 0.

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Originally Posted by dodobird

{OFF TOPIC} Neuro, paranormal powers do exist. I once had a dream that I am 99.999% positive was precognitive {/OFF TOPIC}[/b]

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lol.

That isn't a proper sentence, logically seeing. You should have said 'paranormal powers Probably exist'. After all, you aren't 100% sure. Doesn't really matter. I was certain this one time I traveled in time, 1 hour backwards. I am so certain of it, I just can really prove it. I really am certain.

lol. That makes it true? Noooo it does Not.

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Besides, to much stuff to respond to, so I will just start talking now. Interesting discussion nonetheless.

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I heard Solskye say that 'our 5 senses' aren't even trustworthy, and thus everything might be fake. I am not saying it isn't, I am just saying it isn't an argument For everything being fake: It just happens that our brains only give a certain representation of the material world, and that representation gets really fucked up with optical illusions and many, many other things. However, does that make the picture you think is turning actually turns, in a spiritual realm? No, probably not, since there isn't a reason to believe it has anything to do with each other.

Basically, because no matter how bad our senses often work, there is a lot of reason to believe the material world is as real as it gets. Really, just because our eyes sometimes thing they see a man when it is a shadow, doesn't mean that if looked at from all angles by a whole bunch of devices that there is that man there and not that shadow... what I am saying is, that we have a lot of extensions of our senses. Even more then extensions. Isn't it strange that such 'faults' of our senses only work directly? You might hear a voice where there is just wind, but a microphone will never catch up different sounds waves then there are..

What I am saying is: The material world is extremely consistent. So consistent it can be called 'real'. I mean, it is impossible to disprove, as is the idea of a (deist) god, but there also is no logical reason of proof why this reality is a fake one. We are just a bunch of atoms among some other atoms. We have a certain, very small spectrum of senses. That doesn't mean fairies exist, it just means we can't see infrared.

Seriously, I don't know what to say anymore, to think this is a world pulled over our eyes is possible, but extremely illogical and certainly impossible to prove.

Yes, seriously, the material world is more then a though, it is more then just in our mind. Maybe it is a creation of a greater mind, (or of the matrix), but within the reality of this world, it is real.

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Basically, the 'the world is a dream' idea really is a bunch of crap, no matter how you look at it. Even if it was true, 'dream' would be a horrible way to describe it.

EDIT: EXTRA STUFF 4 U ^__^

Solskye, you say talk about the infinite mind and about that one can even create their own world at will. Sounds great! Sounds totally made-up! :) Seriously though, there isn't a spic of infinity in most people's minds. Most people can't divide 3029302400 by 3^32 in a millisecond, and if anyone can that person is a retard on other levels.

What makes you think the brain is so special? It is special, but infinite? Don't make me laugh. You would think someone would have found out a nice hack for the brain to give themselves (mental) super powers? You have to die before you can think in such infinity? Why can't the mind unchain itself? No fucking Buddhist monk ever calculated 493404^493049 while achieving nirvana, what more closer did anyone ever came to what might reveal that 'infinite' mind of yours?

Just gonna double post to keep it slightly organized.

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Originally Posted by EddieSpaghetti

I was led to some of those beliefs by spending a lot of time in books and papers written on the things you so quickly dismiss. My posts are just to share some of my beliefs and observations about life in a thread on that very topic. I did come to my beliefs with what I think are proper reasons. I did NOT set out to prove anything or convince anybody. But your earlier replies indicated you have not looked very hard or deeply so I figured I'd help you out.[/b]

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Gee thanks. Also, I do not see why I should have any prejudice in this factor. If anything, I am the person Least 'making stuff up'. No one can honestly say a spiritual realm exist, no matter or you visited or not. Yeah, I forgot to say that: Why do you dismiss the senses just because they only give access to a small spectrum of reality, and often they suck at that, yet if you (per)see(ve) a spiritual realm it is all true and right?

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You seem pretty young to me. You think you're pretty smart. You're convinced that your limited perspective and shallow knowledge will suffice on things that philosophers and scientists have been wrestling with for centuries.[/b]

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Yes. Quite true. I am completely right, just like you. I never heard you people say 'Probably' or 'but maybe I am wrong'. I don't say that is a bad thing or anything, but don't act like you have some intellectual higher ground. There are plenty of philosophers that would sort or less agree with me, at least on the subject of the probably not-existing of a spiritual realm or an eternal soul.

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First, you should get a good handle on what people mean by "consciousness". What is it? How do you know when something is conscious? Defining it is way more difficult than you think. Single-cell creatures exhibit decision-making capabilties and therefore, in the opinion of many who have set out to study it, qualifies as conscious. The studies supporting that conclusion are out there.[/b]

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Oh gee, I never thought about what conscious is. Oh wait, I did. However, first off, I did ask for some study or article about that genius one-celled making choices. A.I. also makes choices, different even in the exact same environment, so is A.I. conscious?

Also, human conscious is somewhat overrated. Thinking mostly is talking to yourself. The brain just evolved in a way, so that it created consciousness. The conscious is a creation of the physical mind, there is nothing metaphysical about it (quite, quite probably).

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Second, you should take a good long look at what has been done in the field of paranormal studies. Psychic abilities are not only proven, but are being used in applications. The studies supporting this are out there. The applications are not-so-public.[/b]

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Links to those studies please :)

Seriously, next think you are saying Cher the magical after-life medium isn't full of crack. Strange that all the people that get on TV always are frauds, or score just as good as someone admitting he is using a bunch of tricks to "mind read". But sure they are out there, just not on TV. Uh-hu.

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Third, this is NOT information that is simply going to come to you. You DO have to go get it. You will NOT get it from CNN or Time Magazine or the Daily Show. Not everybody is in agreement on these matters, but how is that different from anything else?[/b]

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I have to get it from people on a forum about Lucid Dreaming? :) To bad every magazine, every news report, every documentary, every debate I listened to never told me about this Truth, that is so obvious I can almost feel it up my asshole.

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The biggest Irony is still that you are as certain as I am, maybe even more certain, while you too are just subjected to your senses, and also quite -so it seems- your imagination. : )

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Originally Posted by Neruo

Just gonna double post to keep it slightly organized.
Gee thanks. Also, I do not see why I should have any prejudice in this factor. If anything, I am the person Least 'making stuff up'. No one can honestly say a spiritual realm exist, no matter or you visited or not. Yeah, I forgot to say that: Why do you dismiss the senses just because they only give access to a small spectrum of reality, and often they suck at that, yet if you (per)see(ve) a spiritual realm it is all true and right?
Yes. Quite true. I am completely right, just like you. I never heard you people say 'Probably' or 'but maybe I am wrong'. I don't say that is a bad thing or anything, but don't act like you have some intellectual higher ground. There are plenty of philosophers that would sort or less agree with me, at least on the subject of the probably not-existing of a spiritual realm or an eternal soul.
Oh gee, I never thought about what conscious is. Oh wait, I did. However, first off, I did ask for some study or article about that genius one-celled making choices. A.I. also makes choices, different even in the exact same environment, so is A.I. conscious?

Also, human conscious is somewhat overrated. Thinking mostly is talking to yourself. The brain just evolved in a way, so that it created consciousness. The conscious is a creation of the physical mind, there is nothing metaphysical about it (quite, quite probably).
Links to those studies please :)

Seriously, next think you are saying Cher the magical after-life medium isn't full of crack. Strange that all the people that get on TV always are frauds, or score just as good as someone admitting he is using a bunch of tricks to "mind read". But sure they are out there, just not on TV. Uh-hu.
I have to get it from people on a forum about Lucid Dreaming? :) To bad every magazine, every news report, every documentary, every debate I listened to never told me about this Truth, that is so obvious I can almost feel it up my asshole.

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The biggest Irony is still that you are as certain as I am, maybe even more certain, while you too are just subjected to your senses, and also quite -so it seems- your imagination. : )[/b]

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You seem to think that I'm making it all up but nothing I've posted here is an original thought of mine. Like I already said, I picked it all up doing a lot of reading. I'm curious about a lot of things, so I take time to find out what others have said about them. None of it is without controversy, disagreement and contention. There is no consensus and I'm not as certain as you think I am. But some really smart, honest people have spent a lot of time studying these things. Meanwhile, you give no indication that you've spent more time thinking about them than it takes to bang out quippy smart-ass replies. In reality, you're just too far behind the rest of the class. I'm not sure why I bother replying.

You want links to those studies? Go get'em yourself. I'm just saying that if you are curious about such things, they are very easy to find. It sounds like you're assuming (without actually checking) that no such studies exist. They do, many of them funded by your tax dollars which means they are (mostly) a matter of public record. Try google.com or wikipedia.org for starters. Do your own work. Or don't.

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Originally Posted by EddieSpaghetti

You seem to think that I'm making it all up but nothing I've posted here is an original thought of mine. Like I already said, I picked it all up doing a lot of reading. I'm curious about a lot of things, so I take time to find out what others have said about them. None of it is without controversy, disagreement and contention. There is no consensus and I'm not as certain as you think I am. But some really smart, honest people have spent a lot of time studying these things. Meanwhile, you give no indication that you've spent more time thinking about them than it takes to bang out quippy smart-ass replies. In reality, you're just too far behind the rest of the class. I'm not sure why I bother replying.[/b]

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The flesh is weak?

Besides, just because I like to act smart-assed against this hippy nonsense doesn't mean I have not thought about it. It is the the same as with religion. Actually, there are more 'smart, honest people' that are certain god exist, that hell exist. That doesn't mean they are right.

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You want links to those studies? Go get'em yourself. I'm just saying that if you are curious about such things, they are very easy to find. It sounds like you're assuming (without actually checking) that no such studies exist. They do, many of them funded by your tax dollars which means they are (mostly) a matter of public record. Try google.com or wikipedia.org for starters. Do your own work. Or don't.[/b]

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That means I win, right? Woo-hoo! I am quite, quite certain no proper, academic study inevitably proves the the nonsense you love to believe so much.

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Anyhow, funny to see I got you all irritated and such. Personally, I rather take a skeptic / 'agnostic' sort of approach. Just seeing how certain you are, makes me know you don't have any more ground to stand on then a Christian, Muslim, Wiccan and astrologist.

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Originally Posted by Neruo

lol.

That isn't a proper sentence, logically seeing. You should have said 'paranormal powers Probably exist'. After all, you aren't 100% sure. Doesn't really matter. I was certain this one time I traveled in time, 1 hour backwards. I am so certain of it, I just can really prove it. I really am certain.

lol. That makes it true? Noooo it does Not.[/b]

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Sure man, but I wasn't trying to prove anything, just to voice my opinion on the matter. But there is so much anecdotal evidence to psi, that I don't think one who have never experienced it should treat it as an impossilbe thing that doesn't exist, but as something that may or may not exist.

Neruo, I'm not quite sure why you have to be so belligerent and cynical towards some of the others on here. One can take an agnostic approach on life without stooping to the level of belittling others. I don't think anyone here was trying to recruit anyone into a religion, cult, or what-not. Simply voice their take on life. And, how can one blame them for trying? Sure, I'm well aware that no one in existence will have the final answer as long as they remain in this realm. But that of course, is the main reason that we do exist in this realm, or any realm for that matter- as an escape from truth, as I said before. Certain things are plain as day if one only took the chance to see them. As I said before which direction you head in life is irrelevant, everything you come across at any point of existence and perception is just a mirror image of your true self. You can run away from that fact or strip your sad little ego away and come to terms with it.

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Originally Posted by dodobird

Sure man, but I wasn't trying to prove anything, just to voice my opinion on the matter. But there is so much anecdotal evidence to psi, that I don't think one who have never experienced it should treat it as an impossilbe thing that doesn't exist, but as something that may or may not exist.[/b]

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I am not saying it is impossible, I am just saying that it is unlikely. And I am certain that 95% or more of all the paranormal / psi stuff people hear about is as much nonsense as the ninja turtles existing.

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Originally Posted by dodobird

Neruo, I'm not quite sure why you have to be so belligerent and cynical towards some of the others on here. One can take an agnostic approach on life without stooping to the level of belittling others. I don't think anyone here was trying to recruit anyone into a religion, cult, or what-not. Simply voice their take on life. And, how can one blame them for trying? Sure, I'm well aware that no one in existence will have the final answer as long as they remain in this realm. But that of course, is the main reason that we do exist in this realm, or any realm for that matter- as an escape from truth, as I said before. Certain things are plain as day if one only took the chance to see them. As I said before which direction you head in life is irrelevant, everything you come across at any point of existence and perception is just a mirror image of your true self. You can run away from that fact or strip your sad little ego away and come to terms with it.[/b]

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Ohh, realm, nice word.

But besides that one nice word, you are just full of shit. First you say no-one can know for sure, then -with quite some certainty- you start wanking about 'oh man, life is just a mirror man'. Blabla, fact remains that you are as certain of you ideas as I am of mine. That really doesn't make you any better.

Also, I am cynical, because I don't like seeing such faith-based nonsense outside the (entertaining) Religion/Spiritually forum.

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Anyhow, go on, be all certain of your theories about how everything is fake, and how globes of energy are everywhere or what ever you want to believe, just don't expect people to agree with you if all you have is 'I just know man, I felt it' or some other 'proof' that isn't any better then any holy scripture or new-age scam.

But of all the people that are right on this world, -basically everyone thinks they are right-, including you and me, You have a better 'right' (truth) then everyone else. That sounds logically. Actually, I should take an agnostic stance, it by far most cases it is the best way. But since you are talking so silly, I am more then glad to give up my ideals and say: "SolSkye, you are wrong, there isn't a magical universe behind every tree and bush.'.


(rant goes on:

Also, since direction doesn't matter, go live in the desert for some years, since it doesn't matter, and get eaten by a Yak. Oh, yaks can be in the desert, as long as you want it enough.

By the way, since "everything you come across at any point of existence and perception is just a mirror image of your true self", I am a mirror image of you. Your subconscious, or something, is saying: "Stop acting like a new-age hippy Solskye" :wink:.

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Originally Posted by Neruo

Anyhow, funny to see I got you all irritated and such. Personally, I rather take a skeptic / 'agnostic' sort of approach. Just seeing how certain you are, makes me know you don't have any more ground to stand on then a Christian, Muslim, Wiccan and astrologist.[/b]

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Ha ha! You don't phase me at all dude. You remind me of Galileo's opponents in the church who refused to look through his telescope and see things for themselves. If you don't want to go get informed, I'm okay with it cuz it ain't hurtin me. If you want to debate from inside an information vaccuum, I'm good with that too. It's a great opportunity to show how shallow your knowledge is and bring some terminology and concepts out in front of others who might be interested.

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Originally Posted by EddieSpaghetti

Ha ha! You don't phase me at all dude. You remind me of Galileo's opponents in the church who refused to look through his telescope and see things for themselves. If you don't want to go get informed, I'm okay with it cuz it ain't hurtin me. If you want to debate from inside an information vaccuum, I'm good with that too. It's a great opportunity to show how shallow your knowledge is and bring some terminology and concepts out in front of others who might be interested.[/b]

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I am not going to build a telescope for every hippy that knocks on my door, I am sorry.

That 'be' fine with you, 'cuz' ain't it so? Good. I would love to read any good article, but do you really honestly think good will turn up some good things on THIS subject? I am not going to go through this crap. I am ignoring paranormal powers as much as I am ignoring the Puorto Rican chupacabra myth: I really don't give a single active shit about both, but if it would be on tv I don't hide from it, so don't act like I am, silly goose.

As I've said before, ultimately yes, I feel you are equally a facet of me as a serial killer or a snowflake would be. That's why you are welcome to think whatever you please because it is as inevitable and necessary as the sun and the moon. While, I'm well-aware I may be completely wrong in my thoughts, that doesn't keep me from entertaining them either. Just as my quote states, "Be open to anything, but question everything".

Speaking of which, I don't think we've heard much in regards to what you think about anything, just a bunch of nay-saying on other peoples' thoughts. All the negative bile being spouted by you doesn't accomplish anything towards achieving an open dialogue or constructive conversation. It does nothing but destroy. It's one thing to just agnostically say 'No' to all that is presented before you, and it's another thing to actually start the search for the truth within. Just be fully aware of where your way of thinking comes from- essentially, a beguiled, scared, and confused little child sitting on the floor throwing a temper tantrum, refusing to move in any direction while taking an ineffective approach, and thinking that they are somehow right. Pfft...yeah son, thats some real productive and progressive thinking going on there.

Again, the ONLY point of truth exists within yourself. If you fail to realize that, then that's honestly too bad. If you were to only take the time to look within yourself you could start to see things differently. Instead, you seem afraid to start the search for whatever reason. Once again, think what you must...but think REAL hard about where that way of thinking is actually taking you in the end...absolutely no where, fast.

I'm done arguing with people who aren't receptive to anything and think that continually saying 'No', is somehow productive and right. Sadly, you purport open-mindedness, but in actuality are anything but...

It's hard to argue anything spiritual with logic. The two cancel each other out. Neruo, not trying to call you out or anything, but if you really considered yourself agnostic you wouldn't be so quick to shoot down these thoughts.

To me, there's so much more to life than what I see before my eyes. Not necessarily a heaven or hell, but something. I find it too weird that I'm in this body, in this house, in this life. I think atoms, quarks, stars, space, trees, air is all weird. How did everything come to work so perfectly like it does? How did our DNA learn how to replicate? How did RNA transfer this to proteins, and so forth? Sure, it's scientifically explained, and extremely well, but I find everything in this world fascinating even though most take it for granted.

Spirits, sure, why not? Who can really say for sure? I believe specific people are more open to that kind of stuff, and there's specific people who aren't. Either way, trying to talk logic about the paranormal just won't work. Just like trying to talk religiously about science. The two don't mix.

As an attempt to save this topic from its hijackers I'll add an observation about life:
I think all people are incredibly stupid. If we realize that and become a little more humble, then there will be no more wars, and no more violence.

Don't you think that might be a bit of a simplification dodobird? People realize they are all stupid and then world peace ensues? Okay...

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Originally Posted by ataraxis

Don't you think that might be a bit of a simplification dodobird? People realize they are all stupid and then world peace ensues? Okay...[/b]

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Yes, because I think wars start because each side are sure that it is right. If each side started from the assumption that it is probably wrong, then they would understand where the other side is coming from, and a peaceful agreement could be reached to solve the dispute.