Arrogance - What's your take on it?

I want to hear peoples' views on arrogance.
To outline where I'm coming from, in this: I'm a person that believes, very highly, in the principle of mutual respect. I believe that people should always treat others with the same level of respect that they, themselves, would like to be shown. Anything less, in my eyes, is a hypocritical philosophy, in that those people that never feel the desire to treat others with respect are, often, those that get the most defensive, when they feel they are being imposed upon.
Many of these people, though, are so adamantly offensive, on a daily basis, that they jump at any chance to make even a complete stranger feel stupid or "inferior," as if life is about doing whatever one can, at the expense of anyone else, to make themselves feel better about themselves, even if they are the ones proposing a, logically-debatable, opinion. Many of them will say things, offhand, like "It's just fun making people feel stupid," or "oh well, it's their own fault for letting things that I say get under their skin" when, if the tables are turned, and they are the ones having someone smarter than them declare how they are "idiots" or "imbeciles," in a room full of peers, they, too, feel two inches tall, and become defensive.
One might call me 'hypocritical,' because I enjoy bringing the ignorance of arrogant people to the forefront, whenever I can, which could be catagorized as "having fun by making people feel/look stupid," but I feel that these sort of attacks are quite justified, if used when in confrontation with someone who is overly-aggressive with their egocentrism.
I understand that many arrogant people mistake their arrogance for "confidence" and simply take it too far. Often they just don't realize that, just because you "know" something, doesn't mean you are "superior" to anyone else, in a way that warrants belittling them for having a difference of opinion, or a lack of knowledge on a particular subject. To them, the bottom line is always: "I'm right...and you're a fucking idiot" even if it's possible that someone who has more extensive knowledge on the subject will come along, and correct them. To me, it's simply a projection of a desire to be, infallibly correct, not only on the particular topic, but in everything, in general. Often, this excessive dissent is use tactically (albeit covertly) to discourage a logical debate - the whole "If I make you feel stupid enough, for believing what you do, it will discourage you from taking a serious approach to prove me wrong, in fear of tipping the scale, even further, toward the position of your proving yourself to be an idiot" paradigm.
I don't want to make this introduction too long (even though I could go on about what I feel about arrogance, forever) so let's get started:
I know there are enough people, here at Dream Views, that are on both sides of the spectrum, to make this a pretty good discussion, so - it doesn't matter where you stand - let me know your stance on arrogance. If you are an arrogant person, and believe that people that "can't take it" should go cry in a corner somewhere, or grow up, tell me why are the way you are, and why being arrogant is such an alluring trait. If you are against arrogant people, and feel that they are simply insecure, on power-trips, or whatever, tell me why.
Discuss.

I'll start.

If you ask my kids, "What is the most important thing," they'll tell you it is respecting others. That should tell you how important this is to my wife and me.

I've known plenty of people who seem to be irritated with most everybody around them... and often particularly with me. Unfortunately, some of these people are family and business associates, and I can't avoid them. I try to show them respect in spite of their attitudes - but I also refuse to take any shit from them. It's a funny thing... every one of these people shows me respect in return. In one case, I'm the only person in the entire organization the person shows respect to. I'm not friends with him... but he shows me respect.

Why are they like that?

I believe it is because most of these people live in a fantasy world. They are out of touch with reality, often by choice, and resent anybody who interferes with their ability to keep up the lie - to themselves and to others. That would include anybody who refuses to lie for them or pretend things are other than they really are... in other words, anybody who lives an honest life.

That's my take on it.

I hate to say this, but I'm on the fence on this subject. I believe that people are intitled to their opinion, but at the same time they should try to respect the feelings of others. You should be able to express how you feel about a certain subject, even if it may offend some people, b/c really anything you say can be considered offensive to someone. But at the same time you should voice your opinion in a respectful manner. I see no reason for people to just cut others down to make themselves look superior.

Well most people are stupid, you take all the religious, racist, stupid, lazy, overweight, drunks, drug addicts, psycho and maniacs. Their is alot of ignorance and that is the root of wrong thinking.

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If you are an arrogant person, and believe that people that "can't take it" should go cry in a corner somewhere, or grow up, tell me why are the way you are, and why being arrogant is such an alluring trait

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Well we all have are problems, you drink and smoke, whilst I don't have any addictions. Being so arrogant I can say "Don't be a baby?". Well I just want to say that I am arrogant because I believe that everybody is not equal, if you stupid i.e. Ignorant then I have the right to call you stupid or mock you. Well Nietzsche said it is better to be the leader or the strong person then a slave, he also said you have to make you're own morallity.
At the end of the day being arrogant is about challenging people, it is the only stimulas I find worthwhile anymore.

My second favourite person is Thomas Paine. Look it up lazy

I don't believe in the concept equality. I think of myself as the most valuable individual there is, which in my opinion makes me entitled to more rights than others. So I think it is completely alright for me to be arrogant.

But when someone else is being arrogant and displeases me, that person should not be allowed to be arrogant, simply because I have a higher worth than him/her.

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Originally Posted by King and God

I don't believe in the concept equality. I think of myself as the most valuable individual there is, which in my opinion makes me entitled to more rights than others. So I think it is completely alright for me to be arrogant.

But when someone else is being arrogant and displeases me, that person should not be allowed to be arrogant, simply because I have a higher worth than him/her.

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Is... is that... supposed to be... ironic?

Or at least, could it be? Please?

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Originally Posted by wendylove

Well most people are stupid, you take all the religious, racist, stupid, lazy, overweight, drunks, drug addicts, psycho and maniacs.

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Perhaps the grandest sort of ignorance is the sort where a person thinks him immune from it? Simplify people into unattractive stereotypes and it's easy to imagine yourself better than them - it's considerably more difficult to see people in all their weakness around you and to admit your own, rather than taking a potshot at them while hiding - and denying - your own soft spots. Arrogance, justified or not, is a vice greater than any you've listed. With it, you get to forget the one thing that makes all people the same rather than what makes us all worse than each other - that we're human, we're flawed, we're walking failures from first step to last, and that you're no better or worse than the rest of us, however immaculate your facade.


Arrogance is the personality of divisiveness, and I'll have none of it. When a person finds it in himself to think himself better than a person - then there's a disconnect, it's game over. You can't relate to other human beings anymore because you either think yourself above their level or them below yours. You rip yourself apart from the largest community you'll ever know, the human race, in exchange for self-congratulations and an illusory pat on the back.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

let me know your stance on arrogance.

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Low self-esteem and immaturity.

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Originally Posted by Moonbeam

Low self-esteem and immaturity.

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but...

If people have to put others down to make themselves feel better, then I completely agree with you 100%.

State your beliefs in an attempt to convince the other person otherwise. Calling them stupid, gets the debate no where.

If anyone thinks being arrogant is okay - they need a reality check. Hitler thought he was superior...

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Originally Posted by Spamtek

Arrogance is the personality of divisiveness, and I'll have none of it. When a person finds it in himself to think himself better than a person - then there's a disconnect, it's game over. You can't relate to other human beings anymore because you either think yourself above their level or them below yours. You rip yourself apart from the largest community you'll ever know, the human race, in exchange for self-congratulations and an illusory pat on the back.

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Couldn't have put it better... "self-congratulations and an illusory pat on the back" is pretty much what it comes down to. You know, by focusing on putting others down, you forget to look and analyze your own self. You become blind of your own failures and leave no room for improvement. So what's the end result? If you keep it up, you will end up being a lonely old person, still arrogant, holding grudges, and bitter with life.

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Originally Posted by wendylove

Well I just want to say that I am arrogant because I believe that everybody is not equal, if you stupid i.e. Ignorant then I have the right to call you stupid or mock you.

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So, by that logic, you're telling me I have the right to call you stupid and mock you for not being able write concise and readable sentences? I find it really ironic that you used "stupid" people as an example of those you mock, knowing how most of your posts make you come through as a very ignorant person yourself.

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So, by that logic, you're telling me I have the right to call you stupid and mock you for not being able write concise and readable sentences?

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Well no, dyselxic people have something wrong with their brains, their frontal lobe is not active as much as normal when reading, I can find the scientific paper I read on this. Now if you go without sleep and can write concisely and readably then you can insult and mock me, people with dyselxia are like people who are sleep deprived two or four days, without the other symptoms.

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If anyone thinks being arrogant is okay - they need a reality check. Hitler thought he was superior...

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That is a stupid example as he thought he was superior because he was german i.e. racism, which is the totally opposite reason I think I'm superior to people. By you're logic you can find everything that Hitler likes and use this in you're stupid argument like Hitler liked coffee, Hitler was catholic or
Hitler liked children. Well, do you like Coffee, Catholic and children?

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If people have to put others down to make themselves feel better, then I completely agree with you 100%.

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Well, I can't speak for most arrogant people, but I don't feel better by putting people down.

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You rip yourself apart from the largest community you'll ever know, the human race, in exchange for self-congratulations and an illusory pat on the back.

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Name me one thing I have to be proud of that the human race has actually done, without any bad.

The problem with arrogance is that eventually you run into the rule of reciprocation. Most primates seem to abide by this rule, and humans are no exception. Simply put, it goes like this: what goes around, comes around.

When baboons exercise the rule, it might look like this. Bab A needs bananas, but cannot reach them by himself. Bab B, is nice and helpful, so helps old down the bunch while Bab A plucks a couple. Bab A, noting the help, shares with B.

Similarly, if Bab A noticed that Bab C just watched and then walked away, Bab C doesn't get to have any, no matter how C begs off of A and B.

When the idea is extended to human relationships, it might look like this: Subject O might need some help and asks for it. Subject M responds nicely and tries to help out. Subject G says something slightly nasty and is arrogant because it seems fun. Thereafter, O might shun G for being a prick about helping him earlier, maybe just when G might want help.

Those who are arrogant are free to be so, no one is going to stop them. But, they should be willing to accept that others may think a lot less of them.

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Originally Posted by wendylove

Well most people are stupid, you take all the religious, racist, stupid, lazy, overweight, drunks, drug addicts, psycho and maniacs. Their is alot of ignorance and that is the root of wrong thinking.

Well I just want to say that I am arrogant because I believe that everybody is not equal, if you stupid i.e. Ignorant then I have the right to call you stupid or mock you. Well Nietzsche said it is better to be the leader or the strong person then a slave, he also said you have to make you're own morallity.
At the end of the day being arrogant is about challenging people, it is the only stimulas I find worthwhile anymore.

My second favourite person is Thomas Paine. Look it up lazy

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Um... anyone have any suggestions for wendylove?

Spelling doesn't matter. I wish everyone used a decent browser with a spell-checker, but most of the time its obvious what the word is even though it's not spelled the same way in a dictionary. I like good grammar too, and dyslexia can be a pain for chatting on the internet, but I didn't have any difficulty reading that post.

What I had difficulty with was believing that anyone would write that, decide that it was good enough to post, and then try to defend it.

I can see you're annoyed by this thread and understand that. It was started by someone saying in detail how they hate it when they see people being arrogant. After that attack it asks for "arrogant" people to explain themselves, but it doesn't attempt to see their point of view. And it forces you to use the word "arrogant", which is a loaded, negative word.

But I can't seem to read *anything* by wendylove without wincing terribly. If you want a good example of arrogance, just search through wendylove's many posts. E.g. <http://www.dreamviews.com/community/showthread.php?t=36404>.

You actually had some decent points

* Lots of people do things that are bad for them, have mental illness, hold irrational beliefs, willfuly cling to ignorance, etc. Not everyone is equal; why can't I call a spade a spade and a stupid person a stupid person?
* Arrogance is a way of challenging people, presenting criticism which could help them and others improve themselves.
* Challenging people is fun.

but very few people are going to take the time to debate your points seriously, or consider agreeing with you in public, because the way you expressed them just comes across as being so, er, arrogant.

So heres my challenge to you, wendylove: why don't you try to criticise in a *constructive* way, in a way that people can read without always feeling offended, in a way that might make them change their minds. Otherwise they'll either ignore you or get annoyed, "lash out" and completely deny what you say using the first counterargument that comes to mind and language just as vitriolic and arrogant as your own. Like folded said - they'll reciprocate.

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-EPOSTWAYTOOLONG. Sorry.

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That is a stupid example as he thought he was superior because he was german i.e. racism, which is the totally opposite reason I think I'm superior to people. By you're logic you can find everything that Hitler likes and use this in you're stupid argument like Hitler liked coffee, Hitler was catholic or
Hitler liked children. Well, do you like Coffee, Catholic and children?

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Ok, my example was a little bit extreme, the guy took it a step further and thought he was superior over millions instead of the day to day person, but you were missing my point - his ignorance and arrogance had to start somewhere. If he may have convinced otherwise when he was young, then WWII may have never happened. Unfortunately the guy was a loner.

And what exactly does liking an inanimate object have to do with a human being? I don't know what exactly you are thinking... that ignorance or arrogance relate to a liking coffee?... You don't compare his extreme favoritism toward a race and a liking of coffee.

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Originally Posted by sourcejedi

I can see you're annoyed by this thread and understand that. It was started by someone saying in detail how they hate it when they see people being arrogant. After that attack it asks for "arrogant" people to explain themselves, but it doesn't attempt to see their point of view.

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Not true.
In fact, my entire reason for starting this thread is to try to get some perspective on why people are arrogant. It's also the main reason I haven't added much to the discussion, yet. (well...that, and not having much time...)
I could have, just as easily, stopped the opening post at "I want to hear peoples' views on arrogance," but I simply wanted to state my opinion of it, to get my views out of the way. It was not meant as an "attack" or as a means to polarize the discussion, in any way (though I suppose it could have done so, inadvertently.)
I've already seen a bunch of things that I could reply to - both positively and negatively - but for now, I'd rather see people with ideas other than my own express what they feel about arrogance - that includes those people who are often arrogant trying to help me understand why they feel it is justified.

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Originally Posted by wendylove

Well no, dyselxic people have something wrong with their brains, their frontal lobe is not active as much as normal when reading, I can find the scientific paper I read on this. Now if you go without sleep and can write concisely and readably then you can insult and mock me, people with dyselxia are like people who are sleep deprived two or four days, without the other symptoms.

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I have written college papers after being one or two days without sleep, during finals period. Papers that were 4, 6, 8, and even 16 pages long, and still got As or Bs. So by your previous logic, along with your current explanation, I still have the right to insult you and mock you. Not that I will do so, but I will keep that in mind.

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Originally Posted by wendylove

Name me one thing I have to be proud of that the human race has actually done, without any bad.

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Erm... are you being serious? Take a minute to think before you make broad generalizations like that, because they're probably not true:
Agriculture, engineering, technology in general, medicine, vaccines, antibiotics...
how about the love and brotherhood that are obvious in many instances? People donating money to disaster victims, volunteering to help in some poor regions in Africa, or even the simple act of donating blood.
and obviously the list could go on.

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So by your previous logic, along with your current explanation, I still have the right to insult you and mock you. Not that I will do so, but I will keep that in mind.

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I looked up more on the subject on sleep deprivation, and it said that loss of writing abilllities occurs after four to five days of being awake. You have only been awake for two days. So no you can't mock me for grammer, unless you go without sleep for five days.

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Agriculture,

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Green peace messing with GM crops so africans have to go hungry. Destruction of natural habitat and killing people to get land(native americans)

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engineering,

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Mechine guns, bombs, nucleur bombs, gas chambers, blah blah blah

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technology in general,

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The above example.

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medicine,

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Do you know it would take little money to cure africa of cholera, however the majourity of people don't give a crap.

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vaccines, antibiotics

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above example

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how about the love and brotherhood that are obvious in many instances?

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I remeber watching the BBC news, they had a evolutionary biologist talking about heroes(normal people who risk their lives to save someone else), well according to the person the people who commit the action are having the same impulse that people do when strapping on a explosive vest and using their bodies as a suicide bomb. So brotherhood and love are just as likely to cause bad then good.

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People donating money to disaster victims, volunteering to help in some poor regions in Africa, or even the simple act of donating blood.

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Charity, sending a pound a week, how helpful. If people want to waste their money then drink, wow charities could provide some food for a few people. Look at africa now, it is worse off. Wow, what has Bob Geldof and all the people at live aid really done, nothing. Watching a program I heard that we are no where near curing cancer in 30 years. I could go into more detail of why charity is stupid?

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Originally Posted by wendylove

I looked up more on the subject on sleep deprivation, and it said that loss of writing abilllities occurs after four to five days of being awake. You have only been awake for two days. So no you can't mock me for grammer, unless you go without sleep for five days.

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By the logic of seeing you mock people for saying things that you find "stupid" or "idiotic," without, first, trying to understand why it is they feel that way, or realizing that they are, possibly, willing to over-write their previous knowledge, with any logical insight you give...I'd say he "can mock you" for...pretty much any reason he wants.
(Sorry....couldn't resist. :chuckle:)

My two cents, though...

On negating the positive contributions of mankind:
Anybody can give examples of how "good ideas and advances" can be (and have been) used for evil...though this does nothing to dispel the fact that they are, often, used for good. In your example(s) you are not providing a sufficient argument against the contributions themselves, you are denouncing what some weilders of those contributions have done with them and, thereby, concluding that the contributions themselves are useless/negative/stupid.
In other words; You are saying that "the study and advancement of biological sciences are stupid because some people have taken that knowledge and made biological weapons out of it" completely ignoring all of the lives that have been saved by that same understanding of human biology and advances in medicine. The same goes for the subject of technology, and even charity - in that you are ignoring the fact that many people give up their entire livelyhoods to become missionaries and help as many people as they, individually, can. This is not a very strong argument, at all.

On the views of the evolutionary biologist on BBC:
I really hope that you aren't hoping to justify your cynical position on benevolence by siting the view of a single (or even a group of) evolutionary biologist(s). That would be to completely ignore the fact that evolutionary biology/psychology, themselves, are subject to debate and much controversy. That's kind of like saying "because I believe in the validity of conventional medicine, alternative medicine does not work" and is, completely, biased.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evoluti...#Controversies

http://psom.blogspot.com/2006/03/con...ndness_13.html

The Evolution of Human Ultra-Society
Chapter 5 is of particular interest.

Note: neither of the above links is to say the view that you hold on the "selfishness of selflessness" aren't, in many cases, true. They are simply to show that there is a lot more to the equation than can, as of now, be explained by the hypothesis of "reciprocal altruism." Many, strictly evolutionary, views on "why we act the way we act" do not take into account the fact that many ideologies placed upon us by our cultures (which, of course, differ, from culture to culture) do not really coincide with the completely animalistic view of "survival of the fittest." Cultural influence may (and most likely, does) work, synergistically, with strict, evolutionary psychology.
The concept of heroism (or altruism, more generally) has many variables; variables that the idea of "Well, the only reason people (which seems to be the generalization that you're using) help people, is because they want something in return" simply don't acknowledge.
There are, I'm afraid, exceptions to every rule, and to base your perception of "the whole of human motivation" without taking those exceptions into account, is to have no understanding of "the whole of human motivation," at all - simply a biased perspective.

I too believe that people who are respectful should be treated with respect. I believe in speaking the truth in political discussions that happen in the right places and so forth, but initiating personal insults is rotten behavior. I would feel terrible about insulting somebody personally when he/she didn't ask for it. I have extreme hatred for people who are out to make good people feel bad. It is a terrible quality, and it should be deeply shunned. However, I feel no guilt in returning disrespect to those who come at me with it.

That does not mean I feel bad about saying things I believe to be true and knowing it resulted in somebody's being offended. The only times I say things that could possibly offend anybody are when I am in places like internet forums, where people know what they are participating in. Outside of conversations with friends and/or people I know agree with me and meeting places for specific types of discussion, I never discuss anything that could offend anybody. In situations where people know what kinds of discussions are supposed to be going on, I have no guilt about saying what I think.

The people who enjoy hurting the innocent are more than just arrogant. They are, more importantly, sociopathic. I despise sociopaths. The arrogance they often show is usually just a defense mechanism they use to deal with what is actually very low self esteem. I still don't feel sorry for them. Until they honestly try to become good people, they don't have my sympathy.

I believe individuals can be better than others at specific things, like soccer and playing the piano, but (aside from the low level sociopath factor) I don't believe in the idea that one person can be superior in general to another. The idea makes no sense. It is vague and without substance. All innocent humans are equal.

I theory I think every is equal, and deserves the same respect.

However, in reality... I am REALLY pissed of by how stupid people can be. A LOT of people really suck (are idiots/mean) or are really stupid/close-minded, ect.

I find it very hard sometimes Not to prefer some kind of elitist world, where idiots can't vote because idiots vote for racist populists/idiots start wars/ect.

I do know that doesn't solve anything, and creating an uber-race is nonsense and pointless. I just really HATE McRetards sometimes.

I'm sure we all get moments when we feel superior to someone else or particularly arrogant. There's one pupil at my school, who could be really clever but she's just choosing to waste her life with the excuse, "These are meant to be the best years of my life." Is it wrong that I feel superior to her occasionally, when I know that I work hard and do well in subjects knowing that I will benefit from that in later life.

I personally don't think there's anything wrong with a little confidence in your self. But when that becomes arrogance assuming that you're right and automatically better than anyone else is wrong. I've had first hand experience with people like that (one even tried to correct me on details of MY life) and know too well how obnoxious they can be.

There's a big difference in being arrogant and in being confident. It is entirely possible to be one without being the other.

I think one the stupidest things anyone once said to me in defending their point of view was "the truth hurts" .. as if standing up against a lie somehow makes the lie a truth.

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Hmmm, ask me on a different day and I might have a different answer.

I hate blunt arrogance, I think you should always be receptive of others thoughts and feelings...at first. If they prove to be a total jerk off or idiot, I don't mind teliing them at all that I think so. I believe in honesty. I don't believe in purposely belittling others or condescending or demeaning remarks...UNLESS DESERVED!! There are many instances when I wholeheartedly believe it is okay to whip the tongue at others. Better to hurt with words than with fists, right? Well, I can't say it's better for me since I seem to have the tongue of the devil when I get pissed which then evokes flying fists, hah. On some level I think we all need to be hit with a few harsh words every now and then. I don't mind confidence though, which is totally different than arrogance, but there is a verrrrry thin line between the two. Also a little bit of arrogance is okay among like minded people. For example it's okay to be arrogant in class if you've done all the required research while your classmates goofed off but it's another thing to be arrogant as you lecture a seminar or teach a class (being that it's a given you will know more than those learning from you, hence the fact they are learning from you!!)
My biology proffessor, althought a brilliant man, was painfully arrogant, so much so it made it very difficult for me to learn from him since he was always finishing up thoughts or ideas with "but of course you all wouldn't be familiar with this." I wanted to scream, "NO SHIT BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A DEGREE IN BIOLOGY AND I HAVEN'T BEEN TEACHING IT FOR 30 YEARS, ASSHOLE!!"

In the past I have been accused of being arrogant, and in retrospect there had been a few occasions where nowadays I would consider myself as having been so, though at the time I was proud of my "fiery confidence".

One of the things about having been a long-time member of an online community is that you can re-read things you have said in the past and see them through different eyes. To be honest, there have been things I have said in the past that, after reading it years later, have flat out ashamed and embarrassed me. Of those things that embarrassed or ashamed me, I don't feel that it's any coincidence that they all were because of arrogance.

In my mind, what separates arrogance from confidence is a degree of ignorance. It's the result of carrying a false sense of superiority which is born out of recognizing people’s inequalities. And I would have to agree that people aren’t really equal. Generally speaking, we have unequal intelligences, unequal strengths, unequal skills, unequal attributes, and unequal resources. The mistake the arrogant person makes, however, is that they feel being “better” than average in one or more of those qualities makes them "better" than others on a fundamental level. But what I feel they don’t understand is that thinking you are (or even being) “better” at one or more of those qualities than someone else doesn’t make you a superior person. And that’s not even getting into the debate about what exactly constitutes something as being objectively or genuinely “better” than something else.

For example, King and God, unless you were being sarcastic, which I hope you were, what you have said seems deeply disturbing to me. This is doubly so because of manner in which you said it; cold and matter-of-fact as if it is some sort of axiom. Even your name seems to reflect this attitude. I understand that it’s your opinion, and perhaps you were just joking, but if not it’s my opinion that you’re either mistaken or delusional. A primitive part of me would take an almost sexual sort of pleasure in dissecting your reason, forcing you into a corner, and watching you squirm underneath the weight of my finger.

Fortunately for both us I’m not like that anymore. :banana:

I was not joking about thinking I'm worth more than everyone else. Give me a good arguement how it is delusional to think so.

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Originally Posted by King and God

I was not joking about thinking I'm worth more than everyone else. Give me a good arguement how it is delusional to think so.

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Unless you're a solipsist, then you need superhuman characteristics and accomplishments that you can point to to prove that you rise above the maddening crowd in terms of personal worth. You can't live in a world where it's assumed other people exist and then presume that you're better than them, inherently. You can reason that it's okay to act like you're worth more than them simply because that strategy will get you the things you want in this life most efficiently... this is just instinctual selfishness, we all do it... but to jump from that to thinking that in some objective sense you are worth more than other people seems truly ridiculous, unless you can point to some truly incredible supporting evidence, like you united ten countries under the reign of your iron fist or you cured aids or you're from another dimension. Then you might have some leverage. Otherwise, you're just a self-absorbed prick who's taken the principles of self-preservation and self-interest and twisted them into something they never should have been.

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Originally Posted by King and God

I was not joking about thinking I'm worth more than everyone else. Give me a good arguement how it is delusional to think so.

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Perhaps, if you were worth my time.

Arrogance is mostly looked down on by people who don't really 'know' what it means but decide it's bad because parental figures told them so or peer groups 'believe' so. Nobody can really believe arrogance as bad, arrogance as a word brings along with it mounds of negative thoughts and banter.

People who are arrogant usually do not think of themselves as arrogant, not because they are 'delusional', but because acting negatively towards others does not 'heighten their low self-esteem'. It's may be because they may have a negative outlook on anyone they don't know, or because they look down on those with religious beliefs, et cetera, et cetera.

Although I don't want to get started on the redundancy of religion, or the uselessness of atheism.

Do you believe I'm arrogant?

no, but perhaps a bit condescending. :P

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Originally Posted by ethen

no, but perhaps a bit condescending. :P

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Haha, clever you.
Some people say that one of my idiosyncrasies is that of being able to argue any point no matter what my actual view is.. :content:

I'm the same way. I used to find it quite entertaining actually; being able to use my reasoning skills for recreation and all (especially when it came to arrogant people). But on hindsight, I wasted a lot of time and energy on people who were just too dense or stubborn to heed any sort of reason or logic.

Unfortunately in my hay-day, I too was very stubborn, and wouldn't hesitate to beat a dead horse to pulp if I thought I could eventually penetrate the person's thick skull. But like cigarettes, eventually the high of it all wore off, and all I was left with was an unhealthy habit. (I don't smoke by the way)

Nowadays, instead letting the temptation take control over me (and in the end regretting it, win or loose) I no longer see the point. Take King and God, and more specifically his response to my own. That's hook, line, and sinker in my book. The old me would have gotten methodical at that point. Oh, I'd lay out trap-door arguments for him, complete with bait. And he'd have little choice but to bite because you can be sure that the only "lose ends" I'd leave in my argument are one's I'd want him to pursue. And when the time was right, after I had slowly eliminated any means of rebuttal, well you know the rest.


I just gave myself goose bumps :P

I feel confidence in life is so very important Yet at the same time I think arrogance and confidence can easily intertwine.
If you let your confidence let your head get too big it leads to arrogance.

They also can legitemately come across the same way to others, Even if that is not your intention.

I had to look up arrogance to find out what if means. Grammar’s not really my thing…:( Anyway I’m arrogant, I just don’t show it. I think people are arrogant because of other people. For example a person might not know if they’re good at something if there’s no one to compare themselves too? And then if a person does find that they are not the worst at something, it makes them feel better. People also use this a lot as an excuse to why they are not a better person, for example my sibling always likes to tell my mom "everyone did bad at that test" or "there's a lot of kids that are sluts/druggies/democrats, but I'm not" But I do compare myself to people a lot, especially in my grades. There was this one presentation where I spent about 20 hours on and I thought it was amazing! Well anyway you get the idea I loved my presentation. I presented it and then she gave me a 97%, just because of one stupid aspect. And when I saw a girl who had a worse power point than me, she did good on it and all better than most, she got a 100%. That made me feel awful… especially when kids later came and asked me "Wow you must have gotten like a 110% on that power point". I even told the 100% girl her power point was good but I was thinking I should have gotten that 100%… So in short I think arrogance comes from people who rate themselves by how bad or well other people do, and I do that a lot. And Howie your avatar is freaky looking. :p

Arrogant people have great desire for attention. All knowing, and extremely argumentative/confrontational , they have the illusion that they can always justify their actions or things when in fact it's all but assumptions.

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Originally Posted by Arrow

Arrogant people have great desire for attention. All knowing, and extremely argumentative/confrontational , they have the illusion that they can always justify their actions or things when in fact it's all but assumptions.

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Hey maybe I'm not all that arrogant if thats the defination. :D Of course people have told me that I try to get attention by not trying to get attention. :eek: