Thread: The key to understanding conscience?

I believe energy is everything there is... Ultimately, matter is energy.
How exactly do you manipulate anything through using this energy?

Well, your first comment seems abit haste. We are our brain, a look at brain damage people is a good example. Alzheimers disease is caused by neuron getting deprived off a certain neurotransmitter, our brain works not by electricity or energy off such, but electrochemical reaction. I assure you that no other energy is used except chemical.

This energy would be considered collective memory by many.

Well memory is stored at the frontal lobe, I haven't heard of any energy to be consided of holding memory. Brain damaged people and memory disorders have been studied intensly and their seems to be little memory outside of the frontal lobe.

Does anyone have ideas as to what this energy is, or where it comes from? To me its obvious that this energy is at least a major key to the understanding of everything, the Meaning of Life.

I don't think you mean the theory of everything, which Einstein made popular(string theory). You could be talking about William James the great psychologist who wrote about reserve energy, however the nature of the energy in question is evolutionary not supernatural. Understanding of everything would come down to science and mainly mathematics and physics and lesser biology and chemistry, since understanding would be observing and reasoning not just believing or faith. I guess with such a distorted and false perception of reality you don't have that much basis on understanding and instead focus heavily on belife.

I would first get a popular neurological book and then build up the knowledge of how the brain works and functions. If I say to you dendrite and neurons you would proberly have a poor understanding of what they mean. When you understand the brain it is not that hard to understand consciousness, making a model that does the brain and consciousness any justice is the hard part.

Conscience and conscious are two entirely different things. Although one being a part of the whole.
Are we discussing conscience or conscious
Seeing how energy cannot be utterly destroyed our energy must go somewhere. Where?
Have we not sophistication and knowledge for the technology to put a finger on where conscious is? Where this energy disperses upon death?
I don't feel at this point either side can give us an answer. My views are always changing though. Possibly the self exploration of our own minds and the advances in technology may eventually give some concrete answers to consciousness.

I have been so intrigued by our conscious. I have looked at it from the metaphysical side and the scientific side.
As scientific American Minds has put it, it is the "The chaos of consciousness"

Robert Monroe has done a tremendous service to the study of consciousness.
He has a perfect explanation to explain consciousness to me: Consciousness by itself is utterly undemanding. When put into context it contains ever shifting and elaborate thought.

The Monroe institute.
I believe this may be a good source for you to follow wer. He has many studies with the mystic side of the conscious concept. Out of Body experiences, astral travel and the like.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Well, your first comment seems abit haste. We are our brain, a look at brain damage people is a good example. Alzheimers disease is caused by neuron getting deprived off a certain neurotransmitter, our brain works not by electricity or energy off such, but electrochemical reaction. I assure you that no other energy is used except chemical.

Well memory is stored at the frontal lobe, I haven't heard of any energy to be consided of holding memory. Brain damaged people and memory disorders have been studied intensly and their seems to be little memory outside of the frontal lobe.

I don't think you mean the theory of everything, which Einstein made popular(string theory). You could be talking about William James the great psychologist who wrote about reserve energy, however the nature of the energy in question is evolutionary not supernatural. Understanding of everything would come down to science and mainly mathematics and physics and lesser biology and chemistry, since understanding would be observing and reasoning not just believing or faith. I guess with such a distorted and false perception of reality you don't have that much basis on understanding and instead focus heavily on belife.

I would first get a popular neurological book and then build up the knowledge of how the brain works and functions. If I say to you dendrite and neurons you would proberly have a poor understanding of what they mean. When you understand the brain it is not that hard to understand consciousness, making a model that does the brain and consciousness any justice is the hard part.

What if this energy needed to interact with the brain for a person's consciousness to manifest fully? Then the malfunctions of the brain would still lead to mental problems. When someone can show me how exactly is memory stored inside neurons, I'll believe that theory...

Originally Posted by MrGrEmLiN

What if this energy needed to interact with the brain for a person's consciousness to manifest fully? Then the malfunctions of the brain would still lead to mental problems. When someone can show me how exactly is memory stored inside neurons, I'll believe that theory...

Yeah I heard a similar argument stating something along the lines of...neurons, brain cells, or whatever...were simply there to filter the energy. So when our brain is damaged, those pathways become damaged, and cut off from the "universal consciousness", resulting in physical and mental handicaps...etc.

I also read about a study using mice, where they discovered that memories were not stored in the brain. But I forget how...or any if the rest of it...not very helpful, I know.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

Yeah I heard a similar argument stating something along the lines of...neurons, brain cells, or whatever...were simply there to filter the energy. So when our brain is damaged, those pathways become damaged, and cut off from the "universal consciousness", resulting in physical and mental handicaps...etc.

I also read about a study using mice, where they discovered that memories were not stored in the brain. But I forget how...or any if the rest of it...not very helpful, I know.

I would reccomend you read "Holographic Universe" Wer. I forget the names but there was a scientist trying to figure out where memory was stored at. He took out the part of the brain that is typically believed to be the storehouse of memory. Before all this though, he trained the mouse to run the maze he constructed. After having trained the mouse to where he (the mouse) could go from start to finish every single time he took out the part of the mouse's brain that science says memory is stored.

After performing the brain surgery, the mouse still remembered how to get through the maze. He took out more of his brain and to no effect the mouse remembered how to get through the maze. He later concluded that "memory" has no physical manifestation whatsoever. Neurons firing while you think could be said to be the "effect" of thought. All of this and more is in the book I mention. You NEED to buy it, it is the single most enlightening piece of literature I have ever laid my eyes upon and it will UTTERLY shatter your perception of "reality".

I would HIGHLY suggest you get the book "Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot

Originally Posted by Chaos Psyche

I would reccomend you read "Holographic Universe" Wer. I forget the names but there was a scientist trying to figure out where memory was stored at. He took out the part of the brain that is typically believed to be the storehouse of memory. Before all this though, he trained the mouse to run the maze he constructed. After having trained the mouse to where he (the mouse) could go from start to finish every single time he took out the part of the mouse's brain that science says memory is stored.

After performing the brain surgery, the mouse still remembered how to get through the maze. He took out more of his brain and to no effect the mouse remembered how to get through the maze. He later concluded that "memory" has no physical manifestation whatsoever. Neurons firing while you think could be said to be the "effect" of thought. All of this and more is in the book I mention. You NEED to buy it, it is the single most enlightening piece of literature I have ever laid my eyes upon and it will UTTERLY shatter your perception of "reality".

I would HIGHLY suggest you get the book "Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot

Sounds very interesting. I'll have to look into it.

You should probably stop smoking so much weed.

I would reccomend you read "Holographic Universe" Wer. I forget the names but there was a scientist trying to figure out where memory was stored at. He took out the part of the brain that is typically believed to be the storehouse of memory. Before all this though, he trained the mouse to run the maze he constructed. After having trained the mouse to where he (the mouse) could go from start to finish every single time he took out the part of the mouse's brain that science says memory is stored.

After performing the brain surgery, the mouse still remembered how to get through the maze. He took out more of his brain and to no effect the mouse remembered how to get through the maze. He later concluded that "memory" has no physical manifestation whatsoever. Neurons firing while you think could be said to be the "effect" of thought. All of this and more is in the book I mention. You NEED to buy it, it is the single most enlightening piece of literature I have ever laid my eyes upon and it will UTTERLY shatter your perception of "reality".

I would HIGHLY suggest you get the book "Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot

Michael Talbot is a lier, their has been no expriment where that has happened. So basically he is using crap to justify his belife, like me saying I can fly and then going on to say a rat flied even when it has no wings. Now their has been thousands of studies of loss of memory and their is not one case where a majour part of your memory (hippocampus and frontal lobe) has been damaged and the person or animal can function properly memory wise.

What if this energy needed to interact with the brain for a person's consciousness to manifest fully? Then the malfunctions of the brain would still lead to mental problems. When someone can show me how exactly is memory stored inside neurons, I'll believe that theory...

Okay 1. memory is not stored inside a neuron, and 2. Please read a book on memory, even wikipedia would do. Their no excuse for ignorance and their is no excuse for not believing in something because you don't understand it, do you understand Kepler theory of planetary motion, proberly not. It would be a stupid argument to make that you don't understand something so you don't believe the science and scientific facts, http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/309/5731/92
. I made a post when Ne-Yo was saying some crap about the brain, which had no scientific evidence. I will post the link if you want a better read, however like Ne-Yo I don't suspect you will even try and learn how memory is stored in your brain.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Okay 1. memory is not stored inside a neuron, and 2. Please read a book on memory, even wikipedia would do. Their no excuse for ignorance and their is no excuse for not believing in something because you don't understand it, do you understand Kepler theory of planetary motion, proberly not. It would be a stupid argument to make that you don't understand something so you don't believe the science and scientific facts, http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/309/5731/92
. I made a post when Ne-Yo was saying some crap about the brain, which had no scientific evidence. I will post the link if you want a better read, however like Ne-Yo I don't suspect you will even try and learn how memory is stored in your brain.

Look, science for me answers nothing... I know how neurons work, I studied it... And being just a regular cell with electric and chemical impulses going through it, I don't believe that a neuron can store memory...
But really, just keep your belief system if it makes you feel good about yourself and the world... And I'll keep mine, and everyone stays happy!
And thanks for saying my arguments are stupid... Stupid arguments sometimes prove not to be so stupid after all

And thanks for saying my arguments are stupid... Stupid arguments sometimes prove not to be so stupid after all

Name me one example?

Look, science for me answers nothing... I know how neurons work, I studied it... And being just a regular cell with electric and chemical impulses going through it, I don't believe that a neuron can store memory...

Yeah, silly science with all it evidence, all you need to do is believe in something and it true. Seriously, being bad at science and not understanding something is proof of nothing.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Yeah, silly science with all it evidence, all you need to do is believe in something and it true. Seriously, being bad at science and not understanding something is proof of nothing.

Sorry if you don't like people with a wider perspective... But if you like science so much, just go with the facts... Certain parts of the brain are associated to memory, it doesn't mean necessarily that memory is stored in them. In fact, the actual mechanisms by which memory is obtained and stored are not well known to scientists... But, if you don't believe in anything apart from the physical reality, there's no point in arguing this with you, cause you obviously won't understand it. But just out of RESPECT you could really say "ok, I don't agree with you, but fine, you have your theories, I got mine, we're both cool" instead of "your stupid for not caring about MY theories and my dear science which explains everything in the whooole universe!".

It never ceases to amaze me how people take such a limited approach to understanding reality and yet have the audacity to insult those who take a wiser approach to the situation. No wonder the world is shit. When did "proof" become more important than logical deduction or simple knowing? Wendy IMO you are only limiting yourself. If there is no light we do not see; this does not mean there is nothing there.

When did "proof" become more important than logical deduction or simple knowing?

Since after the middle ages, you know when we actually started to use science, which is the solve reason you are sitting here talking to me on a computer.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Since after the middle ages, you know when we actually started to use science, which is the solve reason you are sitting here talking to me on a computer.

Yeah, since people got to the brilliant conclusion that human understanding is the universal measure for everything there is!

Yeah, since people got to the brilliant conclusion that human understanding is the universal measure for everything there is!

god isn't helping the people in africa who die of aids, and their is no proof in the afterlife. So I guess human understanding is the best thing, as what is the opposite off understand it is ignorance. god really should have put the cure in the bible or the cure for cancer in the bible.

You are assuming we "understand". Humanity IS ignorant; this is the point. True understanding does not come from science. Science is only one grain of sand; it is one way of obtaining insight. We have other ways that are considered nonsense only because they do not fall into the scientific way of proving things. Do you not see the problem here?

When one method reaches a wall, you switch to another until the obstacle is removed. You don't just stagnate on old knowledge. I love science and physics a great deal....but they only go so far; a great distance at that. Rules have to be broken for anything to advance. Where science ends philosophy takes over; a thing which was actually the basis for science to begin with.

Edit: ..and your reference to the bible really doesn't say much. Religion is perhaps much more limited than even science could ever be. Religion is awful for seekers.

Where science ends philosophy takes over; a thing which was actually the basis for science to begin with.

Be careful, some things are just facts. Now all neurologist would agree that memory is stored in your brain, and their is no evidence to suggest it is not.

NOOOO! God, there was a BBC video called Mindshock that was about where memory is stored, but it got removed!!!

Memory is stored everywhere throughout your body, not in one specific place. I don't remember the details, but thats what the scientists found.

Mindshock, I think your talking about the episode where people transfer someone heart into another person and they develope similar skills to the person. Well, it is a myth http://skepdic.com/cellular.html

Originally Posted by wer

I'm sure many of you have heard of the "psi" energy that people talk about. Through my experience I've came to believe that this energy is what carrys on conscience (so therefore it could be considered conscience its self) after someone dies. I've been able to physically feel this force and manipulate small objects with it. I've seen friends use this energy on physical matter to a much greater extent. There have been pictures, although not significant evidence has been shown that they are real, through my experience I would be very surprised if they were not. This energy would be considered collective memory by many. Its the energy that makes up the astral realms. I don't really think that the astral realms exist on the physical dimention, but the energy its made from must in somehow intertwine with our world. I believe this energy can, somehow, manipulate the physical world, because it is, somehow, connected to it.

Does anyone have ideas as to what this energy is, or where it comes from? To me its obvious that this energy is at least a major key to the understanding of everything, the Meaning of Life.

Wer, can you describe your abilities of manipulating small objects with the mind? It is interesting.

Be careful, some things are just facts. Now all neurologist would agree that memory is stored in your brain, and their is no evidence to suggest it is not.

This may be, but memory does not equal consciousness. Such still lies very much in the realm of philosophy for the most part.

This may be, but memory does not equal consciousness. Such still lies very much in the realm of philosophy for the most part.

I could except it if he said the comment about consciousness, as we don't know if their is quantum activity in the brain, however neuroscientist understand memory really well. So his understanding of memory is ignorant of scientific fact, he basically believing in psudeoscience like creationism or like saying earth is at the center of the universe.

Originally Posted by wendylove

I could except it if he said the comment about consciousness, as we don't know if their is quantum activity in the brain, however neuroscientist understand memory really well. So his understanding of memory is ignorant of scientific fact, he basically believing in psudeoscience like creationism or like saying earth is at the center of the universe.

Not to mention cases of brain damage in which certain individuals have lost all capacity to create new long term memory but still remain conscious human beings that completely refute the idea that memory is the source of consciousness.