Thread: The will of God

I think its important to do what you think is right , but not because of god, but because you want to be a good person.

Your assuming there is a standard definition of "good."

What if I don't want to be a "good" person?

Originally posted by Human

It is writed in the Bible that you shall do to others that you want others to do you; but in some situations do people have different whises.
I think it is very different things people wish other to do to them.
So, in this case; is the will of God that you do what you believe is right, even if others have different viewpoints about it?

Do anyone have viewpoints about this?

Yep.

Where in the Bible does it say that? The entire Bible lays out several things that are "right" and "wrong" if you take the time to study it, it defines right and wrong very specifically and defines it from the point of view of God. Thus it establishes ITSELF (or more apporpriately HIMSELF) as THE standard of right and wrong, both having eternal or absolute repercussions and consequences. I say "HIMSELF," because Christ himself is referred to and refers to himself as THE WORD (John chapter 1 is one example) embodied in flesh and the Bible as a direct representation of God and his will - at least as much as is humanly possible to comprehend.

The question is, how do you determine if this is True. The scriptures also answer this, saying that God's Spirit will confirm in one's heart and mind the Truth and will also grant the ability to discern deception from truth.

The idea of relative or subjective truth is oxymoronic and contradictory. For example, consider:

"What is true for me is not true for you."
I could make the claim that this statement is not true "for me" thus nullifying it.

or

"There is no absolute truth"
Do you know that this statement is ABSOLUTELY true?

In a nutshell...
God's will is perfect
God's will is just
God's will is authoritative
God's will is truth

This is "my opinion" but I won't contradict myself by saying "it may not be true for you."

Everyone knows what is good and what is not. If you don't want to be "good" well then if someone beats you up or kills you because your a jerk its your own fault. Then after you can go to hell or whatever you believe it.

Originally posted by Human
I have read much in the Bible in my life.
One thing who is confusing to me, is exactly the will of God.
I understand He want us to believe in Him and do what is right.

But here is the problem; how could we know for sure what is right? It is no doubt that what is right is very subjective from person to person.
One thing who is right for one, could be wrong for another in some situations.

It is writed in the Bible that you shall do to others that you want others to do you; but in some situations do people have different whises.
I think it is very different things people wish other to do to them.
So, in this case; is the will of God that you do what you believe is right, even if others have different viewpoints about it?

Do anyone have viewpoints about this?

There is only one will, and that is the will of the omniscient creator God. You do what that will has created you to do, or created you knowing that you would do it, which are, in effect, the same thing. It is impossible to go against God's will.

The biggest question ever is what is the object of God's creation.

Creation + Time = The Object of Creation

The Object of Creation is the Variable.

*From here on down it gets speculative, so don't throw out the above on the basis of what's below*


Creation = The Object of Creation - Time

In other words, The Object of Creation is the same as Creation was at the beginning of time, or without time. Thus the Big Bang theory, could be correct, the universe exploded and is now collapsing back into it's origional form, only the origional universe might not only contain matter, but it may also contain spiritual energy, there may be alot more than we can sense in this universe, entire mediums of energy.

It is even possible that the origional creation was God, and that spiritual energy or consciousness or whatever you want to call it, is all part of God's consciousness, and that we will all be united when the universe collapses in on itself again, and then we will be thrown back out into the cosmos, to someday assume our own identities again.

This could also make reincarnation possible, the spiritual force behind one person manifesting itself in another.

I'm sorry for laying down my whole theology here, but I got going on a rant.

Nice posts, but let's try not to try to prove another wrong by taking words out of context.

I once went into a stage in which I said "there is no absolute truth, only relative truth." I got a bit neurotic when believing that, getting confused about morals and stuff. It was pretty crazy! I still hold this concept as potentially true, but I don't dwell on it as much.

If God is who believers say He is, then there is nothing we can do about that. You don't have to keep fighting it! I know I have an innate compilation of beliefs, so I try to distance myself from my beliefs from time to time to inquire them, because I may be wrong.

I don't know every corner of God's will, and I may or may not know in the future. I don't even know if there is just one God. I understand what sacred scriptures say about God, and I can talk about absolute truth "by their standards." But it depends on my internal convictions and my choices, finally.

As O'nus says..." I hope I've been enlightening."

Alright, heres my views....

God does want us to believe in him, but his gift to us is freewill and a right to exercise it. This freewill involves choosing to believe in God or not, choosing to do what you know is inherently right (right being used as a secular humanistic "right") or choosing otherwise. So freewill is the key thing here. For those of you who combat this with saying God is a load of crap, heres why i believe.

#1 Believing in God vs not believing in God
I was born and raised a Roman Catholic, and went through catholic grade school. I went to a Jesuit (order of catholic priests, won't mean anything to you unless you know about them) high school. After all that, I STILL do not believe in God the way the Church would like me to. I have my OWN beliefs and reasons for them....First off, you can either believe, not believe, or not care. Heres my reason for believing. In the "end" there are 4 possibilities. You believed, god exists....you believed, god doesnt exist....you didnt believe, god exists.....you didnt believe, god doesnt exist. Now, for the 2 where God doesnt exist....it doesnt matter whether you believed or not. For the 2 where God DOES exist, you are screwed if you didn't believe it. So the only logical (yay for logic) way to go, is to believe it and hope for the best.

#2 Why believe blindly on faith?
K, ya....faith doesnt mean a "blind leap" like most people think. I have faith in God because I have no reason NOT to. My entire life, I try to prove to myself that God DOESNT exist, and I can't do it. This makes my faith in him(or her, whatever) even stronger.

#3 Beginning of time/matter
The human mind cannot comprehend this subject, and my mind falls under that category. I can't imagine time or matter existing forever, it had to START somewhere. But what was before that beginning? This leads me to believe some omnipotent being had some kind of influence. You can't just glance this over and yell at me, try thinking hard about where all this matter originated from, and you will discover you can't comprehend it.

Um, this was a rant...I didn't bother reading it over. Just thought I'd let you know.

Originally posted by I Bleed Blue

God does want us to believe in him, but his gift to us is freewill and a right to exercise it. This freewill involves choosing to believe in God or not, choosing to do what you know is inherently right (right being used as a secular humanistic \"right\") or choosing otherwise. So freewill is the key thing here.

I believe the concept of "man's free will" is often misunderstood. I believe the scriptures to state explicitly several times that our will is "in bondage" to our human nature which is inherently flawed and imperfect (sinful as opposed to God's divine perfection). Thus, mankind will inevitably choose to do wrong or choose to follow the sinful nature 9 out of 10 times -and that even those who choose "good" are not seen as truly good in God's eyes until their sin is washed in the divine perfection of Christ's blood (and faith therein). Therefore, I don't believe that we truly have a free will in the way that many understand free will, but that God must and has and continues to intervene on behalf of a particular group of people (referenced in scripture as "the children of righteousness" -as opposed to children of wrath, "the elect" chosen and predestined by God before the foundation of the earth, the "Israel of God" set apart by Christ's blood sacrifice, etc.) I'm sure you probably recognize at least some of these references, having been raised Catholic... My point is that God's will ultimately supercedes all other human "wills" (which scripture also says are "at enmity" with God until reconciled by Christ) but not in a way that we conceive it to be in light of this logic... (as robotic or pre-programmed, etc.).

Originally posted by I Bleed Blue
#1 Believing in God vs not believing in God
I was born and raised a Roman Catholic, and went through catholic grade school. I went to a Jesuit (order of catholic priests, won't mean anything to you unless you know about them) high school. After all that, I STILL do not believe in God the way the Church would like me to. I have my OWN beliefs and reasons for them....First off, you can either believe, not believe, or not care. Heres my reason for believing. In the \"end\" there are 4 possibilities. You believed, god exists....you believed, god doesnt exist....you didnt believe, god exists.....you didnt believe, god doesnt exist. Now, for the 2 where God doesnt exist....it doesnt matter whether you believed or not. For the 2 where God DOES exist, you are screwed if you didn't believe it. So the only logical (yay for logic) way to go, is to believe it and hope for the best.

This is called "Pascal's Wager". It has been around for centuries. Its biggest flaw is that it doesn't take into consideration the fact that there are THOUSANDS of ways to worship god - Muslim, Catholic, Protestant, whatever...What about picking the "RIGHT" God and worshipping Him/Her/It in the "RIGHT" way?

It's half-logical but still not convincing...

*edit
Source: http://noreligion.ca/readEssay.php?eid=3#arg1

Honestly, I believe all of these monotheistic religions worship the same being. It is just how they choose to do it. I'm not going to say one is better than another, because they aren't (in my opinion anyway), they are merely different. They all teach the same GENERAL message as to how to lead your life. So whether you believe that Jesus was the son of God, your wife has to wear a veil, or you can only eat kosher hot dogs, it is the manner in which you live your life that counts, not the details.

Originally posted by I Bleed Blue
Honestly, I believe all of these monotheistic religions worship the same being. It is just how they choose to do it. I'm not going to say one is better than another, because they aren't (in my opinion anyway), they are merely different. They all teach the same GENERAL message as to how to lead your life. So whether you believe that Jesus was the son of God, your wife has to wear a veil, or you can only eat kosher hot dogs, it is the manner in which you live your life that counts, not the details.

Well said. However, a lot of the religions I see today cause people to act unnaturally towards others. Christians stress the importance of going to church, J-dubs knock on people's DOORS to preach their beliefs (for C's sake...), and Muslims pray FIVE TIMES A DAY, and starve themselves for a period of time. Is all this necessary? I don't think so...I think people should listen to their hearts, straight from birth. People know how to be good. Fundamentally, we don't need fear of eternal hellfire to 'trick' us into being good. It comes from within. The problem is that our surroundings influence us, and create the 'evil' we see today.

Of course, just MY opinion. I'm certainly not going to stop anyone from worshipping anything, I just really don't see the point, and I sure don't want anyone to try to make ME see the point!

Hmmmm...

The "open"... yet "closed" minded approach...
Seems very popular.
Open in the sense that "everyone is right" (closed in the sense that "I'm right.")

Honestly, I believe all of these monotheistic religions worship the same being. It is just how they choose to do it. I'm not going to say one is better than another, because they aren't (in my opinion anyway), they are merely different. They all teach the same GENERAL message as to how to lead your life.[/b]

To me, this is just glazing it over for the sake of Political Correctness. There are so many primary teachings in in each of the major religions that conflict that to say "they're all generally or morally the same" is wishful thinking and sometimes just ignorant thinking...

The will of god? Or free will?

To me there is no such thing as free will; it is a concept used to entertain our minds. Obviously things will happen and are set in the future, so your "choices" are always definite.

I also believe that today there are few parents that actually give the kid some time to think of which religion he would like to partake in. This way we would have better chrisitians, muslims, jews, etc., because by the time they choose a religion (if any), they are mature and know they will be devoted to that religion.

Originally posted by Joseph_Stalin

I also believe that today there are few parents that actually give the kid some time to think of which religion he would like to partake in. This way we would have better chrisitians, muslims, jews, etc., because by the time they choose a religion (if any), they are mature and know they will be devoted to that religion.

I think kids should not be born into any kind of religious upbringing. They should have some years to see the world around them, get all the necessary facts, and then, and ONLY then, when they are mentally mature enough, should they choose something which suits them right. It should be an internal feeling which dictates the choice, not external factors and biases. During my confirmation as a Lutheran, my pastor actually had the gaul to say "Other religions *think* they are right, but WE KNOW we are right!" It was a huge bias which drew me in further, and created artificial confidence. That's a really unfair way to play the game...

Well if your really religious you can't really help but bring your kid into it. Its the way you live your life, you may go to church every week, and you want to raise your kid of right. Its not fair to say they shouldn't be allowed to do it.

Originally posted by Alric
Well if your really religious you can't really help but bring your kid into it. Its the way you live your life, you may go to church every week, and you want to raise your kid of right. Its not fair to say they shouldn't be allowed to do it.

The intentions are good, I agree, but isn't the idea of a 'belief' system that it is decidedly *NOT* concrete, and therefore the decision must come from within? When I was still Lutheran, I didn't even want a non-Lutheran girlfriend because I thought she would go to hell, I'd go to heaven and we'd never see each other again! The result of good intentions: a 20-year-old virgin

Atleast you didn't go off and get aids and die. I am not saying that would happen if you didn't believe in a religion, but if you avoided all religion of any kind untill you where old enough to decide for yourself, well it may be to late.

Then I go and think about it...If I WAS given the choice as a kid, would I be in the same position I am today? I'm quite fulfilled today, but what if I hadn't been made to question what I believe in?

Ugh too much to think about now

I think it is good to raise kids in a religious upbringing because of the foundation it provides, although I think it is even better to train them how to think critically and to question their beliefs (not with the generric approach that teaches "all religious views are equally valid," but with the mindset of a student who researches and comes to his/her own conclusions as to which ones are valid or not) I agree, though human, there needs to be an inward and personal decision, not a band-wagon, mob, or brain-washed "decision."

I was raised in a Christian home in the sense that my mom believed and went to a "non-denominational" church whereas my father is a non-believer, but sometimes went/goes to church just to please ma. Therefore I also went to church just to please my mom, then went and did my own thing for some years, experimenting with drugs, sex, rock 'n' roll, and researched other world religions and philosophies. Ultimately, God answered my prayers and began to confirm his presence and his truth in my heart, despite my willingness to turn against Him.

What works for you is ultimately the best path for you. Faith is powerful, and if you feel it, stick with it. No one can change your mind if your mind cannot let go of the feeling. Same with me. It's not that I don't believe in *anything* (anymore! Yay for mushrooms). I most certainly believe in metaphysics, and the separation of body from mind, either upon death, or during astral projection. I don't believe each of us simply dies and ceaces to exist in conscious form. What happens next is our choice. We don't remember it, but we chose to be who we are today, before birth. I believe in God as a much more abstract form - the entire Universe. It's one living, fluctuating being of energy. We are a part of it, not above it.

I don't believe in religion. It's an institution that is created by someone just as human as I am. God gave me a mind to think, so that's what I'm going to do with it.

I was brought up as a Catholic. I have a deep resentment on having to talk to a priest in order to talk to God. What makes that man any better than me?

What goes around comes around and I live my life according to that.

Originally posted by Alric
Well if your really religious you can't really help but bring your kid into it. Its the way you live your life, you may go to church every week, and you want to raise your kid of right. Its not fair to say they shouldn't be allowed to do it.

Sorry, I have to agree with Awaken... let the child choose for themselves. If they are open to going to church and learning about God in the way you do, then that's fine.. but if they don't leave them alone. My mother shoved her religion down my throat and I resent her for it and have chosen a different path (but many paths lead to one God is what I alwasy say). No one is going to tell me what to believe in, especially if it's all "faith" based.

Want to know Gods will.... MEDITATE!!!!!!!!!! You won't need to question.

Blissful

I find that religion just causes trouble in the world because everybody seems to hate the other person who doesn't believe in the same god.

Hitler- Killed millions in the name of god

Bin Laden- Killed thousands in the name of Allah

Goerge Bush- Starts war because he believes god told him to, also claims it helps bring about world peace (That's like screwing to get your virginity back)

I don't believe religion is bad, it just causes problems on a global scale. Locally, however, it acts as a good thing.

Hitler- Killed millions in the name of god[/b]

What history books you reading?

Goerge Bush- Starts war because he believes god told him to, also claims it helps bring about world peace (That's like screwing to get your virginity back)[/b]

Sounds like yer riding the anti-Bush Farenheit 9/11 bandwagon...
Bush never said that \"God told him to start a war\" - rubbish! and the virginity analogy is also merde. The argument for peace is that you snuff out the threat to world peace while he's still small... (and no I'm not trying to justify the way this has been executed - I totally disagree with the Iraq war but that's another worm can).

find that religion just causes trouble in the world because everybody seems to hate the other person who doesn't believe in the same god. [/b]

Yeah, it's too bad many people fall prey to their own nature and try to become the judge instead of listening to what most religious teachers taught: compassion, peace, and non-judgment of others...

Originally posted by Death-Wuad
I find that religion just causes trouble in the world *

Hitler- Killed millions in the name of god

Bin Laden- Killed thousands in the name of Allah

Goerge Bush- Starts war because he believes god told him to, also claims it helps bring about world peace (That's like screwing to get your virginity back)

I don't believe religion is bad, it just causes problems on a global scale. Locally, however, it acts as a good thing.

The bible also says.. "and eye for an eye" so battle is necessary for peace. These crack pots just used God as an excuse to kill.

Blissful