It is an act of balance and completion. |
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Hiyah. |
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Last edited by Xei; 02-02-2008 at 12:38 AM.
It is an act of balance and completion. |
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But existence is infinitely complex. Also, consciousness only seems significant to consciousness. The chances of a rock in your yard being exactly where it is is close to infinitely small also. It doesn't mean something intended to put it there. |
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How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
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I skimmed through the replies, but this "argument" thing is quite old. To sum it all up, you're saying that the universe is too complex and everything works together too brilliantly for it to have been an accident. Well, you are proposing an answer that is way more complex. Because you don't know how something works, you automatically attribute it to some being in the sky. Where is it, this being? How did it come to be there? Why did he do some of the things the way that it did? These questions are at once infinitely complex and empty, because to answer these you would just have to make up stories. And here comes the bible, the koran, etc etc. |
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Here is Douglas Adams' response to this argument: |
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Thanks for your reply. |
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Yeah, I've heard that before, and I love Adams by the way. |
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Desirable to who? There's the issue. |
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No, the problem is that 'virtue' and 'should' are human concepts. These are all inside of the heads of little monkeys on planet earth. Objectively, these statements make no sense. |
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Arguments regarding low probability of events that are not illogical have no significance when they concern infinitely big and complex settings. You might say there is a God because you won the lottery and winning the lottery has such a low probablility. The truth is that if you have a one in ten million chance of winning the lottery, and ten million people played the lottery, it is not crazy that somebody won. |
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How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
Well, I suppose we're just at odds in the way we think of the world there. In my opinion, there is only one objective moral truth, and that is that consciousness is infinitely more desirable than no consciousness, and to me that is self evident. Of course you may disagree. |
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Last edited by Xei; 02-02-2008 at 03:20 AM.
It would be just as unlikely that the only possible universe has constants and variables which cause lightning to arise. But there was a 100% chance that things in general would arise. I still don't see what is so special about consciousness. I am fascinated by it, but I AM consciousness. That makes me biased, so my feelings don't count. What is there to back claims of the significance of consciousness other than feelings? |
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How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
Where does it come from? That implies a god, doesn't it? |
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The main problem, as I see it, is that the 'watchmaker' argument fails because there are just too many equally-plausible alternatives to the existence of a god. Arguing that the god hypothesis is more probable than any of the alternatives is nigh impossible, and the more plausible alternatives there are, the greater is the perceived likelihood that a god is not the answer to the question of why the laws of the universe are what they are, and have produced everything that exists. |
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Can we stop letting religious discussions spill over in to the philosophy section? |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
If a provisional polytheist may interject |
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If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama
[QUOTE=Xei;681898]Original PostQUOTE] |
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-Ben
"In watermelon sugar the deeds were done and done again as my life is done in watermelon sugar. I'll tell you about it because I am here and you are distant."
R.I.P. Harry Kalas
The problem is there isn't really any scientific evidence of that. The many worlds hypothesis for quantum physics is a minority interpretation, and, unless we have underestimated the amount of matter in our universe by about 100x, there isn't going to be a crush. |
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Last edited by Xei; 02-03-2008 at 01:37 AM.
In what sense is it unlikely? This argument confounds me. Here's the world. We're in it. Yes, it's marvelous how all the possibilities endlessly collapse into just one actuality--it's a great show, each and every 'time.' It's even better that we get to watch and nudge things about a bit. It can even be great fun to personify the whole process or various bits of it, but you're not observing the world when you do that; you're putting something into it, praising or thanking or cowering before your own reflection. |
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If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama
Tao: well, it is unlikely because there are many variables which must be within small ranges. |
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If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama
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