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    1. #76
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      Quote Originally Posted by Grod View Post
      That makes sense, I think you mean a conscious initial attraction though.

      So basically; the money is the initial means to attract women, and your personality makes them fall in love with you. And since love makes one happy, I think we can say money will make you happy(indirectly). This is if you use it and yourself correctly of course.

      So you use money to acquire what you need. I like that.

      Looks like Money wins again.


      High Five!

    2. #77
      Worst title ever Grod's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Carôusoul View Post
      Looks like Money wins again.


      High Five!

      Well done.

    3. #78
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      I still agree that money can buy happiness, I'm not sure about why those who don't, don't think it can make you happy. Howie has stated certain things money can't do, well thats true to an extent, but theres plenty that it can do. It's not the money in it's self it's the material value that person has gained that makes them happy.



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    4. #79
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      Yes, through money you can end your stressful situations. What's causing you anxiety? You are working long hours? You can't pay off a medical bill? Your crashed your car yesterday? All solved with money.
      All derived from money to begin with. Create a problem to solve a problem?

      uuuuug.
      If this is what you feel, then money may buy you happiness.
      I wish you the best money can offer. Honestly

      I think we have been eluded to believe that money can buy us happiness. That is because we live in a culture that can't see outside of money. It doesn't know how to function without money.
      If it was without money, we could still be happy. With the absence of happiness we are unhappy regardless of the situation.

      In addition money will buy you temporary happiness as it takes care of your medical bills. Then arises a new problem. My daughter should go to an ivy league school, good lord. This is dreadful, a disgrace. I am better than this. My house is no longer big enough.
      Just as people live beyond their means so to does our mental state when given the chance. We always want more within this frame of thought.

    5. #80
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      if im happy, im cheerful, readily to help others. kinda disarming in a way but being happy can let your guard down.
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    6. #81
      Worst title ever Grod's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      All derived from money to begin with. Create a problem to solve a problem?.

      I don't think so. Like paying off the medical bills for example, your health is the problem, not money. Though you may argue that the money is the cause of the worries(bills), the money is the way to pay the doctor and secure your health. If we were a money-less society, your health would still be a problem.
      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      If this is what you feel, then money may buy you happiness.
      I wish you the best money can offer. Honestly .

      The sarcasm is killing me.
      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      I think we have been eluded to believe that money can buy us happiness. That is because we live in a culture that can't see outside of money. It doesn't know how to function without money..
      Do you have a better system in mind?
      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      If it was without money, we could still be happy. With the absence of happiness we are unhappy regardless of the situation.

      I agree with you here. Without money we can still be happy, but it is much easier to become happy with an abundance of money. I also want to clarify that my position is that using money on things you want/need makes you happy, and not simply possesing money.
      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      In addition money will buy you temporary happiness as it takes care of your medical bills. Then arises a new problem. My daughter should go to an ivy league school, good lord. This is dreadful, a disgrace. I am better than this. My house is no longer big enough.
      Just as people live beyond their means so to does our mental state when given the chance. We always want more within this frame of thought.
      Yes, and I think it is a good thing for humans to strive to better themselves and our quality of life. Even without money, I don't think people would lose drive and ambition, and that's not a good thing anyway. Ambition let's us become as great or as little as we choose.
      Last edited by Grod; 02-24-2008 at 09:18 PM.

    7. #82
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      The sarcasm is killing me.
      I seriously did not mean to be sarcastic. What I meant to convey is that money could possibly buy you happiness. I am not one to say it cannot. Maybe money is the missing peace for you and many others. Money that would be that bridge for your happiness. I also think that you would have to realize that money would not buy happiness for many others. So to state money can buy happiness is not necessarily true is it?
      So I understand that money can give us freedoms that we want resources to do the things we want etc etc. Those are all things that often contribute to peoples happiness. There are also many people that have all this and are not happy and would not be happy with another million. There are some in a position of no money. Even with the addition of money, they still could not be happy, given their state of being. -Mental state.



      Quote Originally Posted by Grod View Post
      I don't think so. Like paying off the medical bills for example, your health is the problem, not money. Though you may argue that the money is the cause of the worries(bills), the money is the way to pay the doctor and secure your health. If we were a money-less society, your health would still be a problem.
      If our health was put as a priority, as it should in our society, then money would not be a factor in this case.
      But it always will be to some degree or another. So no I don't have a better system in mind. Not a realistic one and not one that could ever be achieved at this point.
      Even again, with a perfect system there would still be people that are unhappy. Money, a system, a wife - whatever, still will not fill the void that is lacking in many people.



      I agree with you here. Without money we can still be happy, but it is much easier to become happy with an abundance of money. I also want to clarify that my position is that using money on things you want/need makes you happy, and not simply possesing money.
      You can be happy with out money and you can be unhappy with it. So yaa it makes it easier for some to be happy.
      A new job
      A better build.
      smarter
      More money.
      These are concepts that can in certain cases make it capable for some to be happy
      .


      Yes, and I think it is a good thing for humans to strive to better themselves and our quality of life. Even without money, I don't think people would lose drive and ambition, and that's not a good thing anyway. Ambition let's us become as great or as little as we choose.

    8. #83
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      Don't patronize me, I didn't insult you. I just hate people who always say 'live in the moment, don't think about the future'. If no one cared about the future, wouldn't our race eventually go extinct?
      About the 'sad and empty' thing: I'm happy when I'm helping to protect the world from people like you.
      Someone's got to do it right?
      Quote Originally Posted by juroara View Post
      how sad and empty ;_; I feel for you

      sweetheart, no sheep is happy. period. happy people are unique individuals. they are being themselves and living in the moment

      its unhappy people who don't question, who don't think. thats why they are unhappy. because they think things are as good as it gets.
      Last edited by Timothy Paradox; 02-25-2008 at 07:02 PM.
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    9. #84
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      Originally Posted by juroara
      how sad and empty ;_; I feel for you

      sweetheart, no sheep is happy. period. happy people are unique individuals. they are being themselves and living in the moment

      its unhappy people who don't question, who don't think. thats why they are unhappy. because they think things are as good as it gets.



      Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox View Post
      Don't patronize me, I didn't insult you. I just hate people who always say 'live in the moment, don't think about the future'. If no one cared about the future, wouldn't our race eventually go extinct?
      About the 'sad and empty' thing: I'm happy when I'm helping to protect the world from people like you.
      Someone's got to do it right?
      "To be truly happy a man must live absolutely in the present, and with no thought of what's gone before, and no thought of what lies ahead. But a life of meaning, a man is condemned to wallow in the past, and obsess about the future."

      I think the quote in your Sig. explains where you are coming from T Paraodox, right?
      The people who live in the moment are happy. The same can be said for some people of religion.
      If one lives only for themselves it leaves a Timothy Paradox to clean up their mess. If a god will fix the "bad" and unexplained it may never get fixed. To eventually pay for their bills, medical expenses, car insurance premiums, and pay for their funerals etc. etc. I know many people like this. They seem happy, at the expense of others.

      But can we learn to live in the present and not be blind to the past that we can learn from. Or still see a future that has obligations?
      That would be the happy medium I think.

      For the record, I do think sheep are happy.
      Happy may indeed be unique:
      1.existing as the only one or as the sole example; single; solitary in type or characteristics: a unique copy of an ancient manuscript.
      2.having no like or equal; unparalleled; incomparable: Bach was unique in his handling of counterpoint.
      3.limited in occurrence to a given class, situation, or area: a species unique to Australia.
      4.limited to a single outcome or result; without alternative possibilities: Certain types of problems have unique solutions.
      5.not typical; unusual: She has a very unique smile. –noun
      6.the embodiment of unique characteristics; the only specimen of a given kind: The unique is also the improbable.


      its unhappy people who don't question, who don't think. thats why they are unhappy. because they think things are as good as it gets
      .
      What do happy people think about?
      Last edited by Howie; 02-25-2008 at 08:28 PM.

    10. #85
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      I feel happy when I help people, and help to make the future look better.
      The quote isn't mine, it's from Mr.Linderman, a fictual villain.
      I believe I can be happy by choosing the life of meaning.
      Current projects:
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    11. #86
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      I look at money like I would a drug. Most people are completely intoxicated by it, but like any drug of that sort, people also have a tendency to develop a tolerance to its effects. It then takes even more money to acquire that same level of happiness, but only in vane because, like the first time around, you inexorably become desensitized yet again. There isn't some magical number of dollars in which, if reached, this cycle doesn't continue to happen...just like there isn't some magic amount of cocaine that you can snort that will permanently satisfy your addiction.

      I am still seeing people looking at happiness as a one factor equation where all you have to worry about and strive for is "getting things". Acquiring things is a factor in happiness...but it’s not the only one. The other factor that is constantly neglected by people is one’s tolerance. You can get control over it, you know? And when you do, happiness can be achieved in almost any situation because you can regulate your tolerance in accordance to your level of "wealth", and not have to perpetually play "catch up" with a runaway tolerance that eventually becomes numb to anything and everything you try to throw at it, and be miserable in the meantime.

      So in short, thinking money alone is enough for happiness is a mistake in which all you can hope for is that you die before your desires grow larger than your means to satisfy those desires. And the dynamic is easy to see. No matter how wealthy you are, your income is still going to be limited by something. But unlike income, ones desire has no inherent limit. Like a wild fire, is will continue to grow and burn so long as it is fueled by something. And ironically, money is fuel for desire, it only feeds the problem and makes it stronger, bigger, and more consuming. Living a life where you think money is enough to be happy is like thinking you can put out a fire if you douse it with enough gasoline. Without regulating your addiction, and therefore your tolerance, and therefore your "high", you are setting yourself up for a life of perpetual misery.

    12. #87
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      $$$$$$

      That is worthy of praise ethen. That is so well worded!!!


      Sad that in an ettempt to define happiness has boiled down to money.

      These other topics are along the same lines. I forgot what I even posted in those. I think I have split personalities.

      Who is to say you can't have two personalities with the same train of thought?
      Money gives you ultimate happiness
      can you buy love?
      1 Million dollars or an extreme lucid ability?
      Last edited by Howie; 02-25-2008 at 11:18 PM. Reason: Dble posts

    13. #88
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      Yes, some people may prefer to live a "simpler" life; so for them, or for the mentally ill, money would not be a issue for them.

      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      If our health was put as a priority, as it should in our society, then money would not be a factor in this case.
      I agree health should be a priority. But like everything, you need to repay the doctor or whoever for their services. That's what I like to think of money as; not as "the root of all evils"(I know you're not saying that), but as a efficient way to collect on monetary services.
      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      Even again, with a perfect system there would still be people that are unhappy. Money, a system, a wife - whatever, still will not fill the void that is lacking in many people.
      I don't think I understand what you mean here -- can you elaborate?

      Other than that I think we have reached an agreement.

    14. #89
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      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      That is worthy of praise ethen. That is so well worded!!!


      Sad that in an ettempt to define happiness has boiled down to money.
      I agree on you with that Howie, very little amounts of happiness actualy boil down to money, if you see some happy person going down the street, there isn't a very high chance that the reason that their happy is money.



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    15. #90
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      Happiness is the "natural state",... the "true state"... which is dependant on nothing...
      Last edited by Who I Am; 02-27-2008 at 08:08 PM.

    16. #91
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      Quote Originally Posted by Who I Am View Post
      Happiness is the "natural state",... the "true state"... which is dependant on nothing...
      "Natural State"? I don't follow.

      Right now I'm feeling "content" but not happy or sad. An average state. So if were to get "more happy", what would that be to you? Extra happy?

    17. #92
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      If you have to ask then you probably don't have it.

    18. #93
      Worst title ever Grod's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Who I Am View Post
      If you have to ask then you probably don't have it.
      So you can't explain it.

      Ok.


      Sounds to me like you're making this up.

    19. #94
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      Though I'm pretty sure you implyed something of a spiritual nature, there is no true state, everything is true essentually, only things implyed by words have the potential to be lies.

      If you intended it to be spiritual though, then we just merely disagree on the (most probable) nature of reality.

      Your right on the it doesn't take much to be happy though, simply not judging your potential can get you self confidents, and that can bring you happiness, sometimes people just arn't in the mood to be happy though. And you can do it every now and then and it just feels fake, you have to come about the feeling through luck mostly, but I havn't really thought about it much.

      Like when something depressing happens, you have to let some of it out. I've noticed once when I was very depressed, it actually felt like I was letting something go when I was sad about it, but as it went on, it kept getting worse, thats why it's best to forget after awhile.
      Last edited by LucidDreamGod; 02-28-2008 at 03:29 AM.



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    20. #95
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      Quote Originally Posted by Grod View Post
      Yes, some people may prefer to live a "simpler" life; so for them, or for the mentally ill, money would not be a issue for them.
      Other than that I think we have reached an agreement.
      Yes I think we both realize what each other are talking about, just do not fully agree.

      I think ethen summed it up perfectly. And also the ensuing posts by LucidDream God and Who am I too.

      Quote Originally Posted by Howie
      Originally Posted by Howie
      Even again, with a perfect system there would still be people that are unhappy. Money, a system, a wife - whatever, still will not fill the void that is lacking in many people.
      I don't think I understand what you mean here - can you elaborate?
      Had I described as close as I can a system that is approaching perfect -which I don't feel there is a perfect one.
      Then there is voids, religious, guilt, As you said -mental illness, the need for more (in some) Dichotomy in others, fear, many negative emotions that will supersede in many cases the addition of money. Deep seeded emotions can not be bought.
      Last edited by Howie; 02-28-2008 at 10:30 PM.

    21. #96
      Worst title ever Grod's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      Then there is voids, religious, guilt, As you said -mental illness, the need for more (in some) Dichotomy in others, fear, many negative emotions that will supersede in many cases the addition of money. Deep seeded emotions can not be bought.
      You can put these fears at rest, lay to rest worries and concerns. Yes, if the fears are irrational and unfounded, set in place by a mental illness, money will most likely not be able to do anything to rid these people of their fallacious and illogical fears.

      We can only hope that one day these mental illnesses will be cured, so that these mentally ill can feel something close to happiness as possible.

    22. #97
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      Repentance, fear, empathy, guilt, sorrow, anger, joy, loathing, belief, greed, disease are all fallacious and illogical fears?

      Being emotions that means that happiness, joy
      pleasure, exhilaration, bliss, delight, satisfaction are also fallacies too then.

      Contentment is a peaceful kind of happiness in which one rests without desires even though every wish may not have been gratified.

      Please tell me how much money it would take to buy me these things and you will have me convinced.

      These are all with the assumption that NO irregularity, mental illness or other diseases are involved.
      • Resting your head on the pillow knowing that you are saved, that you have a secure belief in a superior god.
      • To feel the commradary, the building, the effort. glory and satisfaction one feels being involved and in and playing a vital role winning team.
      • To give 100% and fall short of the other guy. He had beaten me in chess, basketball, a marathon, monopoly.
      • To give your child all the things in life you did not have, send him to the best school money can buy and all the while you have failed to recognize that none of these things have not only prevented and protected him from but been the cause of his drug addiction. An addiction created. One that will burden him the rest of his life, rehabilitated or not. Rehabilitated being the best case scenario.
      • You have now all the money to provide you with all the time and tools you could ever need to fulfill your dreams, to be ?? famous. A recognized artist. The talented tennis player, "the" guitarist.
      Some of these things we simply can't achieve with OR without money. All these things we can be happy without. None of these things can be truly fulfilled by money. As close as you think you may come via the way of money can not trick the psyche in the long run that it was you that has given you this happiness, which is my entire point.

      I can buy the intimidating grizzle mounted in my expensive den but know that I will never be the hunter that could get this bear. I could buy guide, not the guts.
      I could impress my friends with the painting on the wall, but I could never be that painting. Now whether or not we believe these things are superficial is irrelevant, because to some it is relevant. It is the void that will never be filled, ever!! That is unless you can find a way to be happy with what is. Which in that equation does not include money.

      Are there any of these things Grod in your life. How would you yourself buy them?

    23. #98
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      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      Repentance, fear, empathy, guilt, sorrow, anger, joy, loathing, belief, greed, disease are all fallacious and illogical fears?

      Being emotions that means that happiness, joy
      pleasure, exhilaration, bliss, delight, satisfaction are also fallacies too then.
      No no no. Sorry I wasn't clear.

      I meant that for mentally ill people, they may experience these feelings seemingly without any reason. Their brain chemistry is harmed, and it is impossible to ease these fallacious fears(or other emotions) that they have.
      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post

      Contentment is a peaceful kind of happiness in which one rests without desires even though every wish may not have been gratified.

      Please tell me how much money it would take to buy me these things and you will have me convinced.

      • To feel the commradary, the building, the effort. glory and satisfaction one feels being involved and in and playing a vital role winning team.
      Not only money. Working hard gets you places, but money makes it easier for everything else. This is why I love capitalism so much. Determination and hard work = money.
      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      • To give 100&#37; and fall short of the other guy. He had beaten me in chess, basketball, a marathon, monopoly.
      Why is this happiness?
      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      • To give your child all the things in life you did not have, send him to the best school money can buy and all the while you have failed to recognize that none of these things have not only prevented and protected him from but been the cause of his drug addiction. An addiction created. One that will burden him the rest of his life, rehabilitated or not. Rehabilitated being the best case scenario.

      I don't know what to say here. It's like asking me:
      "You give your child everything but he still goes wrong, due to money. What are you going to do about it?"

      Or more simplified:

      "Money fails you. There's nothing you can do. Solve this problem."
      It's a loaded question, It's impossible to answer. If the situation arose, due to the constraints of the question there's nothing I can do about it.
      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      • You have now all the money to provide you with all the time and tools you could ever need to fulfill your dreams, to be ?? famous. A recognized artist. The talented tennis player, "the" guitarist.

      Ok. So you work hard, and practice? I think using money and working hard towards your goals will give you happiness.
      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      Some of these things we simply can't achieve with OR without money. All these things we can be happy without. None of these things can be truly fulfilled by money. As close as you think you may come via the way of money can not trick the psyche in the long run that it was you that has given you this happiness, which is my entire point.

      I can buy the intimidating grizzle mounted in my expensive den but know that I will never be the hunter that could get this bear. I could buy guide, not the guts.


      Exactly. Simply throwing money at people won't get you happiness. Not only do you have to use it, but you have to work hard, too. Satisfaction comes from doing things yourself.


      Now what about everything else? Do you like feeding the poor? Trying to find diseases for AIDS, terminal cancer, whatever? I think these are great things that can only be accomplished with money that make many people happy. These are only able to be done with not just with money, but by WORKING as well.
      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      That is unless you can find a way to be happy with what is. Which in that equation does not include money.

      Yes I can be happy without money. But money can give you happiness easier, more of it, and as much as you want. I can get ultimate happiness from money.

      I think I understand what you are trying to say about not needing money to be happy. That's it's just "a frame of mind". Which is true, happiness is all in your head. But deciding to feel happy pales in comparison to actually feeling it without forcing it, to feel euphoria in the act of doing things. I know I would rather go on a roller coaster and feel euphoric than remember going on a roller coaster and the euphoria I felt. How about you?
      Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
      Are there any of these things Grod in your life. How would you yourself buy them?
      A few of those examples were unanswerable. But granted, some of them I couldn't buy. Does this mean they are the only path to happiness? Let's see some of the things that can make you happy through money:
      • Funding research for cures for diseases
      • Relieving impoverished people
      • Paying workers to improve on community service
      • Gaining higher education
      • Feeding the homeless, giving them homes etc.
      The list goes on. All of these are noble actions that can be done with money. Those are just a few things that will make you happy with money. Would you rather "switch your mind from contentment to happiness"? Or would you go out and be doing things that make not only you happy, but others as well? You could do these without money, but it makes it much easier to accomplish and set effective goals to better yourself and others.
      Last edited by Grod; 03-01-2008 at 12:01 AM.

    24. #99
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      ok.. all things considered, we have covered most all of the bases here.


      But since happiness can't be defined, apparently, then it is merely subjective. So I can't say money will not buy you ultimate happiness and you cannot say money can always buy happiness.
      Yes in most cases money can crate an easier path to achieving happiness. That could be said about a lot of things in life, but it does not make you happy.


      When you ask, Why is this happiness? -- who the hell knows. winning makes some people happy and anything falling short of that fails to make them so.
      ...or so they think.
      So I listed a bunch of stuff that details examples that money does not make people happy. You did the same, however your list is an attribution to being happy, not BEING happy.

      Funding research for cures for diseases
      Relieving impoverished people
      Paying workers to improve on community service
      Gaining higher education
      Feeding the homeless, giving them homes etc.
      If these things made you truly happy then they should make you happy at any level.
      I have $4 dollars and I gave it to the salvation army. I am happy or am I not happy? I need $400.00 to make up their goal for today. I would be truly happy if I had four million dollars to fund the salvation army.
      Do you see what I mean? Any one of your examples is the fallacy really. It is what you or others have eluded yourself to believe would, could and should buy you happiness.

      How much education would make YOU happy? How many homeless would you have to feed for you to be happy? Ten, fifty, millions, or only all of them!?

      I do know where you are coming from grod. For you to ask me if I had won the lottery if that would make me more happy. I can't imagine that anyone would not be more happy (aside from what you and I agree to be an illness, or impossible to obtain) more happy? Happy? or just more.....
      Can money can make you happy|PERIOD| You can buy happiness?
      ~ or more happy?

      The point I had tried to make is the things money cannot buy, not billions of dollars. Nothing.
      Do you disagree?


      Funding research for cures for diseases
      Relieving impoverished people
      Paying workers to improve on community service
      Gaining higher education
      Feeding the homeless, giving them homes etc.


      Actually Grod, I have an altogether different human analysis on charity, philanthropy, etc.
      That is for another day I guess.
      :smile:
      Last edited by Howie; 03-04-2008 at 04:58 PM.

    25. #100
      Revd Sir Stephen, Ph.D StephenT's Avatar
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      Howie, it depends on what you call happiness.

      Temporary happiness could be bought with money. Giving money to homeless could make you feel good about yourself, and thus you are content and happy. Buying a new game can make you have fun, thus resulting in happiness. The only problem is that it is not permanent. In the end, you will not remember all of the little spurs of happiness that you have every day. You probably won't even remember them for a week. Subjective methods to induce happiness does not result in a sustained euphoric perspective.

      Subjective events bring about emotional responses. The emotions that bring a happy feeling cause temporary happiness. Happiness isn't an emotion, but a category of emotions that are all relative to happiness, yet happiness is not constrained by emotions.

      Anything subjective that results in happiness is temporary. This means that something objective that creates happiness will result in permanent happiness. This is because it is objective, so it is always there while security, contentment, and enjoyment will not be.

      If this is true, then we are always happy for various objective reasons, and sadness is only brought about by subjective, temporary events. If there is a subjective side of happiness, then there must be an objective side though, so we are also always sad.

      So we are always in balance, until the subjectivity of reality distributes happiness.

      It seems like this post brought me nowhere.

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