Couple of q's about jesus
Well, as you all probably know by now i'm a nonbeliever (particularly when it comes to xianity) but these question's have been bugging me for a while. For the purposes of this discussion lets just suppose that the xian faith is real, so I'm a believer for this one :D (so no arguing "but gods not REAL")
So the whole point of jesus is that yahweh sent him down to die for our sins. Yah?
This is always portrayed as a big sacrifice on yahweh's parts (he sent his only son down to die for our sins, etc). But what people seem to forget (or not know??) is that jesus, while being a man, is in fact one third of a truine god (its not pantheism, theres only 1 god - but it has 3 "aspects"). Now if this was supposed to be a sacrifice by god to show how much he loves us.. wheres the sacrifice? Sure he was born to get crucified, but he's infinte. He was always going to rise again, and he was always going to sit on the right hand of god in heaven.
It doesnt seem Yahweh made a sacrifice in sending an immortal son to "die". The only sacrifice I can see in the story is the pain of cruicifixion by jesus - the second he died he was on the right hand of god, sure in his immortality. But the same sacrifice was made by 2 criminals on either side of him, 1 of which did not get eternal life after it. Isn't his sacrifice a bit more than jesus'?
Also, jesus died for our sins right? One of the main things of xianity is the doctrine of originial sin. We're all sinners because adam/eve ate the fruit. Because of this childbirth is painful and we dont live to the same age as adam did (900~ years). If jesus died for our sins, what about the original sin?
[edit to take out a double negative]
Re: Couple of q's about jesus
Quote:
Originally posted by spoon
Well, as you all probably know by now i'm a nonbeliever (particularly when it comes to xianity) but these question's have been bugging me for a while. *For the purposes of this discussion lets just suppose that the xian faith is real, so I'm a believer for this one :D (so no arguing \"but gods not REAL\")
So the whole point of jesus is that yahweh sent him down to die for our sins. Yah?
This is always portrayed as a big sacrifice on yahweh's parts (he sent his only son down to die for our sins, etc). * But what people seem to forget (or not know??) is that jesus, while being a man, is in fact one third of a truine god (its not pantheism, theres only 1 god - but it has 3 \"aspects\"). *Now if this was supposed to be a sacrifice by god to show how much he loves us.. wheres the sacrifice? *Sure he was born to get crucified, but he's infinte. *He was always going to rise again, and he was always going to sit on the right hand of god in heaven. *
It doesnt seem Yahweh made a sacrifice in sending an immortal son to \"die\". *The only sacrifice I can see in the story is the pain of cruicifixion by jesus - the second he died he was on the right hand of god, sure in his immortality. *But the same sacrifice was made by 2 criminals on either side of him, 1 of which did not get eternal life after it. *Isn't his sacrifice a bit more than jesus'?
Also, jesus died for our sins right? *One of the main things of xianity is the doctrine of originial sin. *We're all sinners because adam/eve ate the fruit. *Because of this childbirth is painful and we dont live to the same age as adam did (900~ years). *If jesus died for our sins, what about the original sin?
[edit to take out a double negative]
You're missing the whole point of the sacrifice. For one the "sacrifice" was much more then you think since he had the coice not to go through with it, instead he withstood excrusiating pain.
Jesus God and the Holy Spirit are the same yet diffrent the best way I can discribe it is Jesus is the body God is the mind and the Spirit is the soul. Unfortunantly it is out of human comprehention what the trinity is all about. (or out of My comprehention)
Like I said you missing the point.. The point of jesus was we would be able to directly have our sins forgiven and not needing to go through priests and taking lambs blood.. Because now his blood makes up for it.
The criminals were symbolism of the saved and the doomed, Crusifixion(sp) on the cross was commen back then, so Jesus was obviously on the spot light for -WHY- he was being killed.
Also Jesus died because of the condition of the world today, think of how many less believers would be here if not for him, almost none (besides the jews which I could see being sugnificantly smaller in number.)
I also noticed some debate on evolution, Carbon dating is the only meathod they really use and I hear it is highgly uneffective bast some 5,000 years (they keep changing the date of time after that) and all evolution dosent explain is the creator.
Re: Couple of q's about jesus
Quote:
Originally posted by GestaltAlteration
Like I said you missing the point.. The point of jesus was we would be able to directly have our sins forgiven and not needing to go through priests and taking lambs blood.. Because now his blood makes up for it.
So you've accepted jesus and directly had your sins forgiven? Will you be expecting a 900 year life? Will the female members of your faith have easy pregnancies? Original sin is also a sin. Moreover, can you eat poison and live, and cure people with a touch? (as believers are supposed to be able to do according to the bible - I'll look it up if you want)
Quote:
Also Jesus died because of the condition of the world today, think of how many less believers would be here if not for him, almost none (besides the jews which I could see being sugnificantly smaller in number.) [/b]
Hahahahahahahahaha! Well, you're right on one part - noone would believe in jesus if the NT hadn't been written. But believers would be the same number - just different religions. We'd be doing just fine. (and would probably have a hell of a lot more cultures than we do now without the christian purging of the new world)
That claim would be fine if there didn't exist countries founded on different religions. Unless you want to claim that non-christian countries are worse than christian ones?