Constant Consciousness?

[Schmaven]

Consciousness (in this thread) is defined as an alert cognitive state in which you are aware of yourself and your situation. Would it be possible to be conscious all the time? Obviously we are not, as many people are not even aware of sleep paralysis, or even some daily habits. Similarly, we are only conscious for a small percentage of our dreams (well, as far as myself and everyone I know). I think if someone were conscious all the time, they would be in total control over their life, which would be great (unless they were diabolically evil). They would always know what they're doing, and what they're thinking, and when they go to sleep, they would lay there as they transition into a solid night of only lucid dreams, being aware of SP both before and after sleep. Personally, I am trying to be conscious all the time, I just don't know how. Is Tibetan Dream Yoga a similar concept to constant consciousness? I think some sort of physical reminder, like itchy pants or something could help with being conscious throughout the day. Every itch being a reminder to remain conscious. Mastering WILDs would be another step, which I think just takes time and dedication. Any suggestions?

[Serkat]

No. Animals evolved to be unconscious for some amount of time during sleep. This serves a purpose. If you were conscious all the time, you'd go insane.

[Schmaven]

Well there's still deep sleep. And I think if anything, I'd be more sane if I had more awareness of my life.

[Anthroguy]

Actually, the philosopher Descartes would argue that we are actually always conscious and thinking, it's just that we don't remember being so when we are asleep. Of course, modern science has pretty much proven this theory false. This begs the question that if "I think therefore I am" is true, do we cease to exist when we are in a dreamless sleep?

[Xei]

Interesting question really... I don't think it would be impossible. But I really don't know enough about the precise function of sleep to be able to answer. And I don't think any biologist does either. There's only theories at the moment.

[Original Poster]

Yes but you have to train your mind. If your mind is quiet, untaunted by unconscious activity, then you can. It doesn't mean "awake" just conscious, you still need sleep but your awareness or consciousness doesn't have to dissipate. Meditating before bed allows you to remember your dreams more vividly the next day. meditating every day, and eventually you'll naturally have 8 hour long WILDs. You'll still need sleep, but you won't need dreams that are out of your control because you won't have a mind that's out of your control.

[Captain Sleepalot]

If you were conscious all the time, you'd go insane. I have two questions about that: 1. Why? and 2. Is this proven?

[CryoDragoon]

"I think therefore I am" is true, do we cease to exist when we are in a dreamless sleep? Um... No... It doesn't mean 'when we think, we exists', it actually means 'Thinking is going on, therefore a thinking entity must exist'. Descartes, later in his life, even got angry at himself for putting it like he did ('I think therefore I am'), because people took it literally. People really thought they existed because they had thoughts. Again: this wasn't what he really meant. His only conclusion from that statement was that something was thinking, and that this something had to exist. He didn't say anything about the nature of that something, much less its identity.

[Xei]

Yeah, properly stated it is, 'because I am thinking, I can deduce with total certainty that I exist'. It does not say 'something only exists when it is thinking'. Obviously that is not the case because of the blatant existence of things like rocks, mud, and, er... Christians.

[Bonsay]

But we don't exist when in dreamless sleep nonetheless.

[Xei]

Our bodies do. Our consciousness... probably not.

[ChaybaChayba]

Yeah I think it's possible to be constantly (self-)conscious, but not easy at all. That's the final purpose of dream yoga and yoga nidra.. anyway, I'm practicing it, it's very similar to meditation 24/7

[Original Poster]

Our consciousness most certainly exists in dreamless sleep, we just forget what happened. Techinically, there is no dreamless sleep. Close your eyes, and you're still bombarded by sensations created from your mind alone. There's not a point where you lose consciousness and fall asleep, just a point where you let go and drift off so you start to free flow in your own thoughts, no longer aware that they exist, that's some sort of different entity from you, or aware you exist at all in some sort of sense where you could make a statement about it. You just go, rolling through the streams of imagery your mind weaves out.

[Schmaven]

Meditation is just too awesome for words.

[juroara]

who says were not conscious in dreamless sleep? maybe, our consciousness is in such a deep state. . . we just don't remember?? this morning I had a quick lucid dream. something abruptly woke me. and in a near instant the dream vanished. I couldn't even remember it even though I was consciously observing the dream, its details and being involved in it. I had to lay still in my bed for fifteen minutes before I could remember. And when I did remember, I was lucid in the dream. And it was vivid!! This tells me at least that consciousness and memory are two separate things. But if one state of being can't remember another *waking and sleeping*, then it feels like you weren't conscious at all. Dreams that happen earlier in the night are usually more abstract and more nonsense. In one, I remember it was very vivid. And everything made logical sense - the moment I woke up nothing that happened in the dream made any sense. It was such abstract nonsense I couldn't comprehend it anymore, and as I couldn't comprehend it anymore the dream drifted away into something I could barely hold onto to. Remembering only fleeting moments. My poor memory of the dream was a direct result of my inability to understand it while awake. Look how abstract our thoughts are while we fall asleep. Unless you are good at WILDING, you won't remember any of it. But look how much lucid dreamers have questioned our understanding of consciousness. I'm sure once apon a time, the idea that you can fall asleep while conscious would have been nonsense. I'm sure most people today still believe thats not possible. WILDERs prove it is. WILDing right when you go to bed isn't impossible either, just very difficult. Coupled with tibetan yogis and others, this shows me consciousness can be continuous. But maybe our different states of consciousness have difficulties understanding one state to the other. I think our waking state is the most limited. Capable of only remembering, that which is logical.

[Schmaven]

Dreams that happen earlier in the night are usually more abstract and more nonsense. In one, I remember it was very vivid. And everything made logical sense - the moment I woke up nothing that happened in the dream made any sense. It was such abstract nonsense I couldn't comprehend it anymore, and as I couldn't comprehend it anymore the dream drifted away into something I could barely hold onto to. Remembering only fleeting moments. My poor memory of the dream was a direct result of my inability to understand it while awake. ... ... ... I think our waking state is the most limited. Capable of only remembering, that which is logical. I have had a good number of dreams that at the time, made perfect sense. But upon waking up, none of it made any sense. Also, I can't really remember these dreams, only a fragmented idea of what it was kind of about remains, together with one scene from it. Understanding what you did definitely affects memory I'd say. I can only remember dreams that make at least some sense to my waking conscience. It's such a disappointing feeling to have some incredible 'aha!' moment in a dream, where suddenly everything makes sense, or you come up with the solution to something, only to wake up and not understand any of it. To me, that proves that there is a lot more to the physical universe than we can even comprehend while in it.

[ChaybaChayba]

who says were not conscious in dreamless sleep? maybe, our consciousness is in such a deep state. . . we just don't remember?? Good point, but then the question is, how do we learn to remember?

[Schmaven]

Good point, but then the question is, how do we learn to remember? My guess would be that remembering was necessary whenever language came to be. It is required for explaining everything. We probably learned to remember through deja vu experiences leading us to consider having already seen something we are not currently seeing. It also helps us avoid repeating our own mistakes. Perhaps we evolved the ability to remember after too many people without this ability ended up killing themselves off by repeating risky behaviors.

[Belisarius]

I definitely think that we are conscious even while in slow wave sleep. We aren't able to remember the details very well, and there probably aren't many, but we certainly retain some level of awareness even in deep sleep. Whenever I wake up, even from slow-wave sleep, there seems to be quite a bit of continuity to the experience, as if the external world was interrupting a thought I was having. The fact that people can WILD is proof that we are at least capable of consciousness during slow-wave sleep.

[ChaybaChayba]

My guess would be that remembering was necessary whenever language came to be. It is required for explaining everything. We probably learned to remember through deja vu experiences leading us to consider having already seen something we are not currently seeing. It also helps us avoid repeating our own mistakes. Perhaps we evolved the ability to remember after too many people without this ability ended up killing themselves off by repeating risky behaviors. I meant, how do you learn to remember the moments you are in deep sleep when you don't have dreams? Jurorara is suggesting we are conscious always, but we just don't remember certain moments when we're in certain states of minds like dreaming and deep sleep. So I'm wondering, how do we learn to remember those moments? You can learn to remember your dreams by keeping a dream journal, but how do you learn to remember the moments you are in deep sleep?

[Schmaven]

I meant, how do you learn to remember the moments you are in deep sleep when you don't have dreams? Jurorara is suggesting we are conscious always, but we just don't remember certain moments when we're in certain states of minds like dreaming and deep sleep. So I'm wondering, how do we learn to remember those moments? You can learn to remember your dreams by keeping a dream journal, but how do you learn to remember the moments you are in deep sleep? My guess would be some sort of sensory deprivation, and just see where that takes you. I am wondering the same thing. You'd have to somehow find a way to be lucid in such a state and remember what it was like. Then try to describe it every time you manage to pull it off and look for patterns. But it is such a mystery, I don't even know if I would be able to describe it if I experienced it.

[StonedApe]

I really don't think that we are consciouss in deep sleep. But maybe I"m using a different definiton. Conscioussness is when you are aware of what you are exeriencing while experiencing it. But during deep sleep I would consider myself to be unaware. Maybe there is some level of consciousness, but it is very low. I think that if you were to become aware during deep sleep it would turn into a dream of some sort. But I think unconsciouness is part of deep sleep.

[ChaybaChayba]

Yeah I don't think so either, I was just assuming what jurorara was talking about: "what if we were conscious but don't remember?" Personally I think you have to learn to become conscious. But according to Yoga Nidra you can become conscious during deep sleep tho, without dream imagery or anything. Haven't experienced that myself, but I do remember pure "logical" dreams, where you think about stuff, but you don't have any imagery.

[StonedApe]

I've had those too. They are really hard to remember. I always remember thinking, but not what I was thinking about. But I always considered those dreams and not deep sleep. I guess it mostly depends on personal definitions of phrases. But I think that when you are conscious it creates an impression. If you can't remember being conscious it's because you repressed that memory somehow. It's is still possible to remember it you just have really clear your mind.

[TransientOcclusion]

Well there's still deep sleep. And I think if anything, I'd be more sane if I had more awareness of my life. Then you must not think.