The Devastatingly Controversial Abortion Thread

[Oneironaut Zero]

Thank you, I knew someone agreed with me. *Shakes fist at Oneironaut* ~

[Sandform]

Abortion should be legal for one reasonl...overpopulation. Abortion is one of the few choices to help with this problem. Euthanasia is the other. Most other options are ethically wrong. We live in a world that supports us with a limited amount of arable land to create food. At some point human population will surpass the ability for the earth to support our existance. We have already surpassed the point where the Earth can support us via renewable means. If it were not for the massive petroleum inputs into the soil via herbacides, pestacides, fungacides, and plain fuel to power the food manufacturing process, we would have tapped out around 6 billion I believe. Petroleum is a limited resource that will eventually peak...at that point something will have to give. The only intelligent thing that mankind can do to curtail this innevitable problem is to deal with our population problem. Abortion is a viable solution. Each new pregnancy is another mouth the Earth has to feed. Why add unwanted/unfortunate babies to the already stressed food supply? We should not only keep abortion legal but the gov. should give birth control away freely, as well as contraceptives. Abortion should be paid for with tax money, and there should not be a social stigma attached. The alternatives are a hell of a lot nastier than abortion. If you want to lower the birthrate in America we need to stop giving people money for having babies. I speak with a guidance counselor often from one of my old schools, she talks about her experiences with students. She says she gets girls coming into her office crying saying "I can't get pregnant." Girls in high school. They are purposely getting pregnant so they can receive money from the government, they think that they are getting something from this but they are only hurting themselves so that they can't ever get out of their circumstances, and more than likely they will teach their children to have children to get money as well.

[lysergic]

well... i've read a lot of really good opinions in here. i'd have to say my perspective has been somewhat broadened.

[zeneyes]

If you want to lower the birthrate in America we need to stop giving people money for having babies. I speak with a guidance counselor often from one of my old schools, she talks about her experiences with students. She says she gets girls coming into her office crying saying "I can't get pregnant." Girls in high school. They are purposely getting pregnant so they can receive money from the government, they think that they are getting something from this but they are only hurting themselves so that they can't ever get out of their circumstances, and more than likely they will teach their children to have children to get money as well. I agree with you that children having babies for government money is a huge problem. I see this nonsense almost daily with my work. I didn't bring up overpopulation to talk about it so much as I did to use it as a valid reason why abortion should be legal. It's insanity to force an unwanted baby into the world simply because you believe it's somehow morally wrong to abort when the world is facing problems due to there being to many babies. That's like saying "smoking causes cancer, we need to fix this problem and eradicate cancer as best we can, here is your free pack of government sponsored cigarettes!!" Personally I think it's murder to kill a baby when it has been detached from the umbilical cord and is breathing on it's own. That said, there should be no excuse for aborting past the first trimester, and I would be okay with it being illegal past the second. Bottom line is that unitl the baby is out of the womb it's part of the mother's body and she should have the right to make her own decision.

[marlie]

If your not responsible enough to stop an unwanted pregnancy then you arent responsible enough to have a child so get rid. No child is better than a badly treated one.

[drewmandan]

Bottom line is that unitl the baby is out of the womb it's part of the mother's body and she should have the right to make her own decision. Not only should, but has as a matter of universal morality. There is a small set of rights that apply to all human beings that are not mandated by any government or organization; they are intrinsic to all thinking, sentient beings. These intrinsic rights are defined by the fact that to argue they do not exist leads to some sort of absurdity, as I've pointed out in this thread. One of them is the right to abortion. A couple others are the right to absolute control over ones body and the right of property.

[Grod]

There is no difference in the instant before a baby comes out of a mothers vag and when it comes out.

[drewmandan]

There is no difference in the instant before a baby comes out of a mothers vag and when it comes out. That's true. But I propose we set the line at a much less arbitrary point, such as when the baby is able to be removed and be expected to live. This happens at around the 7 month mark usually.

[spockman]

If your not responsible enough to stop an unwanted pregnancy then you arent responsible enough to have a child so get rid. No child is better than a badly treated one. Whenever I hear this argument I view it as pretty arrogant, actually. No-one has the right to tell someone else that thier life isn't worth living because of thier own standards.

[marlie]

Whenever I hear this argument I view it as pretty arrogant, actually. No-one has the right to tell someone else that thier life isn't worth living because of thier own standards. spoke like a true teenage parent

[spockman]

spoke like a true teenage parent

[Rozzy]

a friend of mine told me earlier today about a great analogy he discovered on abortion. a huge argument that gets brought up is the fact that it is alive, it is not alive, it's a baby, it's a mass of cells. okay here's that analogy, i have a shotgun. there is a deer behind a bush, i know because i saw it, i shoot it. there is a man behind a bush, i know because i saw him, i don't shoot. what if there is something behind the bush, i don't know if it is a man or a deer because of the fact that well, i didn't see it. do i shoot it? no!!!! why because if it is a man, it's murder. there. one question though to all the pro-choice, how is it that you can stand to legalizing the murder of an innocent human life, and yet negate the murder of convicted criminals. not all of you i know, c ause generalization, leads to stupidity and ignorance, but alot of pro-choice people i meet seem to think that.

[Sornaensis]

a friend of mine told me earlier today about a great analogy he discovered on abortion. a huge argument that gets brought up is the fact that it is alive, it is not alive, it's a baby, it's a mass of cells. okay here's that analogy, i have a shotgun. there is a deer behind a bush, i know because i saw it, i shoot it. there is a man behind a bush, i know because i saw him, i don't shoot. what if there is something behind the bush, i don't know if it is a man or a deer because of the fact that well, i didn't see it. do i shoot it? no!!!! why because if it is a man, it's murder. there. one question though to all the pro-choice, how is it that you can stand to legalizing the murder of an innocent human life, and yet negate the murder of convicted criminals. not all of you i know, c ause generalization, leads to stupidity and ignorance, but alot of pro-choice people i meet seem to think that. Ignorance. Fetuses are parasites. They are a part of the mother and she has the choice, not you. And no, I happen to NOT oppose capital punishment.

[Mes Tarrant]

Yeah the whole point is that the fetus is NOT considered to be a human life by those who are pro-choice. So that analogy does not hold.

[[SomeGuy]]

Thank you, I knew someone agreed with me. *Shakes fist at Oneironaut* ~ HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!! HE EXISTS!!!!!!! I just witnessed a god.

[bradybaker]

Over 30% of conceptions are aborted naturally in the first weeks of pregnancy. I would say that makes God the most prolific abortionist of them all.

[spockman]

Or it's just the evolutionary process being the biggest abortionist, with God being the one who implemented the system.

[Rozzy]

Ignorance. Fetuses are parasites. They are a part of the mother and she has the choice, not you. And no, I happen to NOT oppose capital punishment. i didn't say all pro-choice people are against cappital punishment, i said the ones i know. and well she already made a choice of doing a specific task that can lead to that. don't get me wrong, if the mother is in danger or something then the fetus should be remove, only in that case. Yeah the whole point is that the fetus is NOT considered to be a human life by those who are pro-choice. So that analogy does not hold. uh the analogy is basically saying if we aren't 100% sure that the "mass of cells" is technically alive, then we shouldn't terminate it in the case that it is... so the analogy does stand.

[Sandform]

uh the analogy is basically saying if we aren't 100% sure that the "mass of cells" is technically alive, then we shouldn't terminate it in the case that it is... so the analogy does stand. I think what you're failing to understand about Mes T. is that she is saying that pro-choice people are 100% sure that a lump of cells are not alive.

[Forsaken]

I have actually spoken with a woman who was born 5 months premature. I'd always been against late term abortion, but just the fact of this woman being born after only 4 months in the womb, and being perfectly fine today really sewed up my opposition to all but the earliest abortions. Oh and the way you guys equate abortion with contraception bugs me. Contraception should come first, thus avoiding the need for abortion, and if that fails, abortion should be carried out as early as possible. Waiting till you have a viable baby to go and kill it is wrong IMO.

[Original Poster]

So let me get this straight, I'm the only one in this entire forum that thinks not only is a fetus alive, but it deserves to die just as much as every other human being? I recommend not only should abortion be mandatory for women with low scores on standarized tests, but there should also be a random system of catch and abort just to break people's poor little hearts every once in a while.

[Mes Tarrant]

So let me get this straight, I'm the only one in this entire forum that thinks not only is a fetus alive, but it deserves to die just as much as every other human being? Pretty much. Btw, I'm assuming you meant "live" instead of "die."

[Original Poster]

No if you keep reading I think we should kill them, not terminate them, and make that distinction because they are alive, and aborting them makes them dead, and that's murder. There's nothing wrong with murder, though. We should also kill random unborn babies sometimes even when the parents didn't want an abortion just to instill fear on the population.

[Sandform]

Pretty much. Btw, I'm assuming you meant "live" instead of "die." Lol he probably means die he is a homocidal maniac.

[Mes Tarrant]

No if you keep reading I think we should kill them, not terminate them, and make that distinction because they are alive, and aborting them makes them dead, and that's murder. There's nothing wrong with murder, though. We should also kill random unborn babies sometimes even when the parents didn't want an abortion just to instill fear on the population. That is not a valid distinction because, as most pro-choice people have said, the fetus is a cluster of cells like your fingernail or a boil or something. Nothing more.