Thread: Does the Universe Exist?

The grass is green. They sky is blue.

If a tree falls in the woods with no one around to hear it, does it make a sound? Yes, you moron.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

If a tree falls in the woods with no one around to hear it, does it make a sound? Yes, you moron.

I agree 100%. This is one of the dumbest "deep" questions ever invented.

Even when not considering the physical nature of sound waves, even as a kid, I've always imagined sound to be something that exists independently of perception.

But there is a consciousness to know of it. Otherwise it obviously wouldn't matter.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

But there is a consciousness to know of it. Otherwise it obviously wouldn't matter.

So the universe didn't exist before the first brain evolved? Is that your thesis?

The universe might exist without you in it, but it does not exist without me in it. Those billions of galaxies are all about ME.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

So the universe didn't exist before the first brain evolved? Is that your thesis?

Objectively it doesn't matter. For us humans and maybe other creatures it matters, but for a rock, for example, it doesn't matter. We only have a subjective point of view. So without me, the universe doesn't matter or exist, since I wouldn't be around to experience it. Although I actually believe in an objective reality. Such ideas are very useless, but can you say they are incorrect?

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Objectively it doesn't matter. For us humans and maybe other creatures it matters, but for a rock, for example, it doesn't matter. We only have a subjective point of view. So without me, the universe doesn't matter or exist, since I wouldn't be around to experience it. Although I actually believe in an objective reality. Such ideas are very useless, but can you say they are incorrect?

Through what process did consciousness come into existence in the universe?

The only one I know of... universal?

Originally Posted by Bonsay

The only one I know of... universal?

What do you mean?

Whatever the process was, it happened in the absence of consciousness. Do you think that is not possible?

Originally Posted by Bonsay

The only one I know of... universal?

If the universe did not exist before consciousness evolved, consciousness could not have evolved. Therefore, it did exist.

Most likely, yes... to both statements. I believe so.

But juroara asked if it matters. And I said it really doesn't. I did try to imply that I only know my point of view and that when I die the universe will end. It makes sense if we really look at it from a very twisted angle. But yes, it kind of goes off into the whole brain in a jar and solipsism direction, which are paradoxical and useless if we actually want to get somewhere.

The word "matters" is extremely poorly defined. The way I would define it is, yes, it does matter, because without the existence of the universe, consciousness would not have evolved.

If no one were ever conscious the existence or non-existence of the universe would be meaningless. How could the difference between the two ever possibly be assessed without assuming a conscious perspective? We are only granted a limited perspective from which to view the world. Assuming that this world we see has some sort of existance in and of itself is reaching far beyond our empirical abilities as humans. This insistence on a concrete objective world, existing independent of our perception of it is truly meaningless and obfuscates the true nature of our existence.

This thread needs a far more precise definition of 'universe' before any meaningful discussion is likely to take place.


I can become invisible, but only when noone is looking.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Through what process did consciousness come into existence in the universe?

Through what process did existence "come into existence"? Consciousness is innate to existence.

Yes. Reality exists. The only reason we only see only this universe at this time is because this is where and when the inputs to our neural network are. Consciousness is the result of a mathematical system, and mathematical systems have no location. Do the things in your drawers cease to exist because you cannot see them? I don't see how that position is justified.

Originally Posted by Xei

Yes. Reality exists. The only reason we only see only this universe at this time is because this is where and when the inputs to our neural network are. Consciousness is the result of a mathematical system, and mathematical systems have no location. Do the things in your drawers cease to exist because you cannot see them? I don't see how that position is justified.

What do you mean - what position?

Originally Posted by ClouD

The grass is green. They sky is blue.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Yes.

I read a book by a quantum pyhsician about reality.

He said something like, if you split up an atom further in the end you will find nothing - there is actually nothing. And what we see as materia for example is a meeting and parting of little peaces, thus forming things.

So basically what he is saying is that the universe is newly-arranged every single moment. That concludes that the future is uncertain (which I find a little bit of a relief I must say) but with an (obvious) tendency. "Probably the more probable thing is going to happen" also sounds kind of reasonable to me.

So, on the grounds of physics, the universe is not a static place, it is in constant movement, manifastation of energy that we can only witness through our limited senses. 'There is more than we can perceive'.. but I guess that is not necesseraily new. And materia is basically just the manifastation of energy.

I still got to dive a little bit more into it though.

:-)

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

The grass was green. The sky was blue.

Originally Posted by dajo

[The quantum pyhsician] said something like, if you split up an atom further in the end you will find nothing - there is actually nothing

This isn't science, it's speculation.

If you split an atom further you find protons and neutrons and electrons.

What do you mean - what position?

The position that things not in your experience do not exist?