Thread: Reality Is Not Perception

Basically, it just is.

Originally Posted by Psylocibin

Basically, it just is.

Yes. Basically, just yes.

Basically, yes, just is...

In order to acknowledge something, you have to perceive it first. If you don't, then what are you acknowledging? The only thing that can be acknowledged without perception is self-existence.

Allow me to predict what you'll say next: Exactly bcomp, since we can acknowledge ourselves and we are all one, then we can acknowledge all of reality.

But that doesn't really work. No matter how hard I try, I can only experience my own thoughts, which are the only internal proof I have of my own existence. The only way I can acknowledge the existence of others is by perceiving them (unless maybe if I were a mind reader.)

This is starting to cross over into that other interesting philosophical debate about philosophical zombies. How do we really know anyone other than ourselves is conscious or even exists?

Originally Posted by bcomp

In order to acknowledge something, you have to perceive it first.

Why is this so? Does this in itself require acknowledgment of your inner Self, the Absolute? Perhaps it happens automatically, yet we always miss it, taking it for granted.

Originally Posted by bcomp

Allow me to predict what you'll say next: Exactly bcomp, since we can acknowledge ourselves and we are all one, then we can acknowledge all of reality.

But that doesn't really work. No matter how hard I try, I can only experience my own thoughts, which are the only internal proof I have of my own existence. The only way I can acknowledge the existence of others is by perceiving them (unless maybe if I were a mind reader.)

Furthermore, this is not true. Thoughts can be transcended, because you are not thoughts. What is aware of the thoughts?

Originally Posted by bcomp

How do we really know anyone other than ourselves is conscious or even exists?

First, you have to find that you are ultimately beyond consciousness; beyond all conception and labels. This is the Absolute, the nameless. It is one with Reality, and cannot be perceived nor has the intrinsic requirement.

ok

Originally Posted by bcomp

ok

Ok? I guess you're in agreement.

I hope people see what amazement this thread has to offer, really. Otherwise, it may ironically appear quite dull and fruitless.

Appearances are quite deceptive

Continually lulling one into the dream..

Or daydream as the case may be


Is reality really reality?...Such a question

Yet there it is


Perception of reality is merely a product , or rather a quality of duality

Duality is a quality of mind

N o t h i n g exsts outside of mind

Mind cannot deal with nothing, cannot grasp emptiness

Mind is in the business of creation

Things are minds nature of business


E v e r y t h i n g comes through mind, but not from mind

The truly mind blowing reality


When it is emptiness, nothingness that is the container of mind..

How can mind wrap itself around that?

Where are its handholds?


If one is lucidly aware a dream is a dream, rigidity ends

The reactionary quality is no longer

Everything in a dream begins to speak to you

A language of metaphor

Everything becomes a symbol

Everything becomes detached from this notion of I, of me


Yet of waking life

We hold so tightly to this body identity

So sure of this who we are, who we have been, who we are going to be

So vividly attached


Yet such is no more than the silver backing upon a mirror

That which gives the mirror its very reflective capacity

I can understand where bcomp is coming from, only experiencing yourself

it can be frustrating when others talk about this thing called universal consciousness. heres what you need to remember though. that wasn't some random idea people came up with. they believed in universal consciousness, because they experienced a universal consciousness

so what does a person have to do to experience what they have?

Drop the "they" that thinks "they have"

But even then the words describing hide


We all suffer from this self inflicted position of division and separation

Such which is merely reflections in a mirror

What do you see when you look?

Do you see the telling of condition of your whole Being being reflected?

Or do you see a collection of independant things standing alone?

Seeing yourself as indeed also one of those things?


We speak of a "collective" or "universal" consciousness..

But even those terms of thinking imply something otherwise to be ..

A this and a that

When all there is is This

All is a reflection of This One

Philosophy is difficult enough when not speaking in riddles....

Originally Posted by Crumbs

Philosophy is difficult enough when not speaking in riddles....

It really depends. Poetry is known to be more expressive; pushing the limits of what ordinary sentences can convey.

I think this video sums up the two side of this discussion very well. Wait until she starts drawing on the board.

Nice video, although there were many generalizations. Whether free-will exists or not, no belief system can change the fact that subjective reality holds priority over the objective, material reality. Also, I think she should have said "Subjective/Spiritual" rather than "Thought", as many "vital", "religious" or "spiritual" practices emphasize the importance of transcending thoughts rather than giving them power. With this, her two columns would still sound valid and more direct (Objective | Subjective). Spirituality is not supernatural either.

It is out of the Presence of Awareness that all arises, not the other way around. Man cannot say the Context for which he knows existence is "out there" or "caused" by something, and that is one of the main issues brought up in this thread. Perception is not Reality; beliefs systems are irrelevant.

You can read "the tibetan yogas of dream and sleep"
It's interesting, and it's intimately related to the way one perceives "reality"

Originally Posted by Mariano

You can read "the tibetan yogas of dream and sleep"
It's interesting, and it's intimately related to the way one perceives "reality"

So you have the book? Any interesting quotes?

Thanks for mentioning it.

the book it's religious/philosophical ...
but it has very good info....
I have the book on PDF...
you can download it via web, I will post the website soon...
quotes? mmmm

the book itself is a quote

Bravo! :bravo: Great universal concept! You have seen to become a little lost within it, but anyways, it was creative, and great overall job. I was thinking many times the same thoughts

Originally Posted by The Cusp

I think this video sums up the two side of this discussion very well. Wait until she starts drawing on the board.

If she was trying to make the magic side look good, the ghost example was really really really stupid.

I think it's HEALTHIER to believe reality is independent of perception.

Originally Posted by AirRick101

I think it's HEALTHIER to believe reality is independent of perception.

Well yes, in some sense. But Reality includes perception. No belief system is really needed to understand it properly.

You need to systemetize it.

Try this: the knowing expressive thought of word in time follows but never catches or sums up the full wordless prior concept, already fully projected, that gave birth to the word but itself cannot be completed without the word.

That's why stillness, breathing, relaxing, meditation, are so very important.

Take your time. It's a block universe. Einstein and all that. There is no past or future.
The thought remains in time, awaiting completion.

So feel free to recapitulate.

PQ

Originally Posted by Posquant

You need to systemetize it.

Try this: the knowing expressive thought of word in time follows but never catches or sums up the full wordless prior concept, already fully projected, that gave birth to the word but itself cannot be completed without the word.

That's why stillness, breathing, relaxing, meditation, are so very important.

Take your time. It's a block universe. Einstein and all that. There is no past or future.
The thought remains in time, awaiting completion.

So feel free to recapitulate.

PQ

I'm not sure what you're contributing. I need to systemize something?

Don't want me to question what you write? Just agree?

I am not trying to contribute. I am commenting, best I can.

Think about it.

PQ