Eco Community

[SKA]

I am thorougly sick of Modern society. Being an Economical slave for life, Watching Nature disappear and being destroyed, Being part of the exploited and misguided masses, Being forces into certain lifestyles, being forced away from certain other lifestyles. I want no more of this. I want to live in a Community, not cut off from, but independant from our present day society. Of course this isn't a walk in the park so I'm still theorising about the problems I'll run into and how to solve them. My plan is to live somewhere in Nature, yet accessible from a Nearby city or Town. And to live there with a Group of people. A Place that self provides a food-supply: Farming, keeping goats, sheep and chicken; So preferably somewhere in a sunny climate for optimal plant growth. A place where spirituality is free and individual freedom is charished and protected, as long as it respects and doesn't hurt with others. A place where it is non of your neighbor's business wether or not you use Questionable herbs for whatever reason A place where not 1 ideology seeks to dominate the other. A place that generates it's own electricity. A free place. A place where the only work we're obliged to do is that work directly responsible for our survival: Reaping and Sowing food crops/Caring for Sheep, goats and chickens and slaughter for meat/harvesting eggs, Maintaining public services like Powerplants and Water-purifying facilities..etc and Building houses & securing a clean watersource. A place that gives optimal conditions and time for Visual artists and Musicians to express their creativity. Now I would like to hear from you the practical complaints and problems you forsee, so that I might perfect this idea into a practical plan. Feel welcome to be critical, to make me aware of other problems you foresee and share any other suggestions/ideas you have on this. If you feel "communities are unrealistic, hippy-garbage", then please don't waste your time posting it: I'm not interrested in such pessimistic judgemental behaviour; This kind of nay-saying is going nowhere and I am better than that. Only Constructive criticism is welcomed. So what do you you people think?

[juroara]

I can understand where you are coming from I grew up with the belief that..people have to work. now, theres nothing wrong with work. work is good. the problem is, in our modern society - work translates to a job. a modern job. and for most of us, that job is far removed from anything thats actually important and meaningful to us. it neither stimulates our minds intellectually or emotionally. and neither is the job itself relatively important. its just an end to a means (money) and the job itself is artificial. its not like we care so much about the job, for most of us, its just the paycheck we want. But real work, its not about the paycheck. Its about the rewards OF the work. and I realized, if this is my ONLY life as human - what a waste of a life to lose, what 40 hours a week till retirement to a JOB I dont GIVE A DAMN about? Ive tried for over a year to think of any job that I can love. And the only jobs that I can love - don't pay enough to get me out of my parents house, sadly. Half of them were volunteer work. So, Im at this place in my life where I realize what I want more than anything is liberty from the MEANINGLESS and ARTIFICIAL job scene. It's not money thats important to me, I just want enough to afford my own place, its TIME. Time is important to me. I want every MOMENT to be in my hands and not lost to a meaningless activity. And I think, maybe thats why you have this desire to get back to nature. All the jobs that I found the most meaningful - were with animals or nature. Working with other living things, or even other people, is always meaningful. It's real. And its a real work where you can reap the reward even before you receive a paycheck. I think most americans are living a lifestyle that makes them unhappy. And part of it is our ARTIFICIAL ECONOMY. I dont think most americans realize how artificial everything has become. For example....the market place. The market place is GREAT. They offer a place for local farmers to sell natural organic produce, they offer a place for artisans to sell their one of kind goods, they offer the best restaurants and candy shops - and they create the feeling a community. They create the feeling of a community because they are found at the center of a community. The market place is magical and special. And why it was so special, is because no one 'plans' it. It just grew in the center of a community as eager entrepreneurs wanted to sell their goods. Its the dream of a small business owner. We don't really have market places in suburbia America. What we have are artificial market places. The first difference is its not in the center of a community. You have to DRIVE out of your community, your little suburbia, to get to a big chain of stores. So there is no feeling of community. Without the support of a community, small businesses don't thrive. Big corporations take over. WALMART. The first noticeable change, the food. It's no longer the food produced by your local farmers. Mass produced and usually lower quality food all around. The shittier the food, the shittier you feel. The next noticeable change, are the buildings themselves. In the true market place - usually a building doesn't exist until the small business owner builds it. So the building is UNIQUE and AUTHENTIC. Not in the fake market place. In the fake market place usually what happens is, an artificial market (a strip mall) is mass produced. And all the buildings have the same 'fake' stylization. The mass produced buildings are then rented out. Our modernized market place is all about IMITATING and creating a CHEAPER version. For example, PIZZA HUT, is imitating a type of building. But the end result is a caricature of the real thing. And because you can expect all Pizza Huts to look like other pizza huts - it detracts from the feeling of community. Communities should feel unique from each other. How can they, if everything feels the same?? The other big difference is, how the area around is constructed. The market place is usually thriving because of small businesses. Small businesses help each other out. The more small businesses in an area, the better. What does this mean? The market place has a nice outdoors atmosphere to it. They design it so you want to walk around. Or you want to sit and hang out for hours. Its good for business!! And fun for you. We don't have that feeling in the fake market place. In the fake market place they don't give a damn about creating a community feeling. What they care about is advertising. So a lot of times the stores will face the busiest street. If its a highway, even better. Its about easy and quick access from a car, not hanging around. No place to hang around..no community. Over all, this kind of modern market place makes people less satisfied than a REAL market place. Which is why so many americans want to travel to other countries, to see their market places - the heart of the city. And the worst part is, not only has this fake market place robbed you of a real authentic community - but more than likely you've had to slave for it at some point in your life. The two common areas we can still find a real market place, is the center of a city - which is why downtowns do feel 'unique' from each other, or outside the city limits. But suburbia has become the backbone of america. And its boring itself insane. Now you said you want to live a different lifestyle. DO IT. This is YOUR LIFE. And there are sooooooo many lifestyles a human can live. But if you can't find that special community, don't forget. . .when you want change in the world, you first need to BE that change. You need to be that lifestyle even if you have no one else to share it with. Grow vegetables, even if you live in an apartment! Live how you want to live now, where ever you are.

[dajo]

There are these communities. So people are doing it. Have been for a while actually.. My plan is to see more of the world in a couple of years, just travel and stay some place I like, find something to do - then move on. Collect experiences. And honestly, if I come across one of those, I might stay for couple of years and see what happens Why not? (Also I want to be more in nature, as long as it's still there ). I don't plan on returning, actually - but I don't want to say I won't. I'm equally sick of society/politics/economy and decided for myself, whatever I will do with my life, it's not that. And there are ways to get around, I have a goal set on 'helping others that want/need help' and trying to keep exploring that is the depth of 'me'. I also want to point out though, that these plans have been made out of an 'embracing life' kind of thinking, not really for escape, maybe a combination. But - since then it has become a lot easier for me to 'see' all the bad in the world and not be emotionally harmed by it. But I definately need a break from the western world.. :-) SKA, do you plan on staying in your country? One thing I feel like adding: We can be anything we want to be, anyone. It's our choice! It's just a matter of seeing this choice! Then we are free. But if you can't find that special community, don't forget. . .when you want change in the world, you first need to BE that change. You need to be that lifestyle even if you have no one else to share it with. Grow vegetables, even if you live in an apartment! Live how you want to live now, where ever you are. Also nicely put. But it'd be easier without always being reminded. I think to get away might be a crucial point of find oneself, but I haven't decided on that yet. For me it is, though.

[Bosco]

You ever see the movie the beach? haha But dude i know exactly what you are saying and have thought about it many times beore. I wish i lived a long long time ago .....

[SKA]

I can understand where you are coming from I grew up with the belief that..people have to work. now, theres nothing wrong with work. work is good. the problem is, in our modern society - work translates to a job. a modern job. and for most of us, that job is far removed from anything thats actually important and meaningful to us. it neither stimulates our minds intellectually or emotionally. and neither is the job itself relatively important. its just an end to a means (money) and the job itself is artificial. its not like we care so much about the job, for most of us, its just the paycheck we want. But real work, its not about the paycheck. Its about the rewards OF the work. and I realized, if this is my ONLY life as human - what a waste of a life to lose, what 40 hours a week till retirement to a JOB I dont GIVE A DAMN about? Ive tried for over a year to think of any job that I can love. And the only jobs that I can love - don't pay enough to get me out of my parents house, sadly. Half of them were volunteer work. So, Im at this place in my life where I realize what I want more than anything is liberty from the MEANINGLESS and ARTIFICIAL job scene. It's not money thats important to me, I just want enough to afford my own place, its TIME. Time is important to me. I want every MOMENT to be in my hands and not lost to a meaningless activity. And I think, maybe thats why you have this desire to get back to nature. All the jobs that I found the most meaningful - were with animals or nature. Working with other living things, or even other people, is always meaningful. It's real. And its a real work where you can reap the reward even before you receive a paycheck. I think most americans are living a lifestyle that makes them unhappy. And part of it is our ARTIFICIAL ECONOMY. I dont think most americans realize how artificial everything has become. For example....the market place. The market place is GREAT. They offer a place for local farmers to sell natural organic produce, they offer a place for artisans to sell their one of kind goods, they offer the best restaurants and candy shops - and they create the feeling a community. They create the feeling of a community because they are found at the center of a community. The market place is magical and special. And why it was so special, is because no one 'plans' it. It just grew in the center of a community as eager entrepreneurs wanted to sell their goods. Its the dream of a small business owner. We don't really have market places in suburbia America. What we have are artificial market places. The first difference is its not in the center of a community. You have to DRIVE out of your community, your little suburbia, to get to a big chain of stores. So there is no feeling of community. Without the support of a community, small businesses don't thrive. Big corporations take over. WALMART. The first noticeable change, the food. It's no longer the food produced by your local farmers. Mass produced and usually lower quality food all around. The shittier the food, the shittier you feel. The next noticeable change, are the buildings themselves. In the true market place - usually a building doesn't exist until the small business owner builds it. So the building is UNIQUE and AUTHENTIC. Not in the fake market place. In the fake market place usually what happens is, an artificial market (a strip mall) is mass produced. And all the buildings have the same 'fake' stylization. The mass produced buildings are then rented out. Our modernized market place is all about IMITATING and creating a CHEAPER version. For example, PIZZA HUT, is imitating a type of building. But the end result is a caricature of the real thing. And because you can expect all Pizza Huts to look like other pizza huts - it detracts from the feeling of community. Communities should feel unique from each other. How can they, if everything feels the same?? The other big difference is, how the area around is constructed. The market place is usually thriving because of small businesses. Small businesses help each other out. The more small businesses in an area, the better. What does this mean? The market place has a nice outdoors atmosphere to it. They design it so you want to walk around. Or you want to sit and hang out for hours. Its good for business!! And fun for you. We don't have that feeling in the fake market place. In the fake market place they don't give a damn about creating a community feeling. What they care about is advertising. So a lot of times the stores will face the busiest street. If its a highway, even better. Its about easy and quick access from a car, not hanging around. No place to hang around..no community. Over all, this kind of modern market place makes people less satisfied than a REAL market place. Which is why so many americans want to travel to other countries, to see their market places - the heart of the city. And the worst part is, not only has this fake market place robbed you of a real authentic community - but more than likely you've had to slave for it at some point in your life. The two common areas we can still find a real market place, is the center of a city - which is why downtowns do feel 'unique' from each other, or outside the city limits. But suburbia has become the backbone of america. And its boring itself insane. Now you said you want to live a different lifestyle. DO IT. This is YOUR LIFE. And there are sooooooo many lifestyles a human can live. But if you can't find that special community, don't forget. . .when you want change in the world, you first need to BE that change. You need to be that lifestyle even if you have no one else to share it with. Grow vegetables, even if you live in an apartment! Live how you want to live now, where ever you are. What a wonderfull way with words you have juroara. You make everything crystal clear. We are very similair minded. Indeed our market-based society is a mockery of a Real community, but it's anything BUT a community. It's an anti-community. We are very similairminded on these issues. I noticed in another topic earlier. And yes I am VERY serious about starting such a community. I have no trouble finding people who feel the same way, they are the majority of my friends and mates. I'm having trouble, however, finding people who are as serious as I am and as prepared to leave this society, to which we're all so familiar, behind. I find that most of them are too addicted to this insult to their intelligence of a "culture". And to start such a community I need....well others. The whole point of a community is Togetherness, but I have some serious candidates that are close to leaving this phoney (lack of a) culture behind. @ Dajo; No I prefer to move down south. Optimal weather for the soul and for crops to grow. I suck in foggy, clouded, rainy, cold wintertime in holland. I die every winter again. And so do fruittrees, tomatos, herbs, rice..etc Everything dies here in the winter. And the atmosphere this country breathes is spiritual death, monotony, dishonousty and selfishness. And most of all: Closedmindedness. I like it more where the sun is bright and omnipresent, the landscape has more character and the people have more temper. @ Bosco: I'm sure that people in ancient times had the same problem as we have now. And that also at those times there were people who chose to live in communities away from these problems. This problematic "civilisation" of ours seems to have lasted about 7000 years. 7000 years of nothing essential changing, only superficial changes.

[dajo]

And yes I am VERY serious about starting such a community. I have no trouble finding people who feel the same way, they are the majority of my friends and mates. I'm having trouble, however, finding people who are as serious as I am and as prepared to leave this society, to which we're all so familiar, behind. @ Dajo; No I prefer to move down south. Optimal weather for the soul and for crops to grow. I suck in foggy, clouded, rainy, cold wintertime in holland. I die every winter again. And so do fruittrees, tomatos, herbs, rice..etc Everything dies here in the winter. And the atmosphere this country breathes is spiritual death, monotony, dishonousty and selfishness. And most of all: Closedmindedness. First Part: That's good. I think it was like a year ago, when I got sooo mad at everything, something snapped and I also entirely lost my connection to society. At that point, I wanted to leave right away. Now, I try to approach this more rationally.. but still - 'get out'. I know what I want and for what I will decide when I get the change (but also - I just want to finish my degree first.. couple years, can't wait) But I have lost my connection to society, don't see myself as any part of it anymore - makes me kind of happy. Loads off of my back I still like individuals, and also humans as such, but I have begun to built up an allergy towards all of these fake, artificial things. Second Part: Ok, again, total agreement. Winter is killing me too here. Totally changing me, putting my potential down and letting me think and act differently. It has increasingly become more so every winter. I need sun already.

[SKA]

Hey Dajo, I don't plan to flee hastily overnight. I want to carefully plan this as a 21st century exodus. And @ Juroara: yes I LOVE to work. Work my skin to the bone for things that give me instant gratification; Working on the land, harvesting fruits and vegetables, Painting and Drawing and building visual art, making and recording lots and lots of music. It's been 3 years since I last been to school, yet I have been constantly busy. I haven't had a job, because the time I spend expressing my creativity cannot be compromised with spiritually polluting activities such as time consuming and mind, body and soul-killing meaningless jobs. Ironicly musicians and artists have never been able to make a living out of their talents. I need to express this creativity or I go gradually insane. Like slowly dying. It's offensive to see how many people don't see writing as much music and drawing/painting as much visual art as I do as "real work", just because they're overly focussed on money as the goal. It's a shame so many people can't understand why one would work for anything other than for money. And I'll be damned if I'll be molded and forced into the same passionless, careless, meaningless shape as them.

[zazeNate]

I agree with you completely. It's my life dream to build a communal house on top of a mountain near my hometown (in North Carolina) and go from there to cultivate a garden and such. There would only be a footpath from a road to get there, just to make sure anyone was serious about getting there Hopefully with being an electrician I can materialize this dream one day... I think it's possible. But hey, if you beat me to it, let me know! Monasteries in Asia have been done like this for centuries, to my knowledge. Starting small and building on as the community grows.

[DeathCell]

Hey Dajo, I don't plan to flee hastily overnight. I want to carefully plan this as a 21st century exodus. And @ Juroara: yes I LOVE to work. Work my skin to the bone for things that give me instant gratification; Working on the land, harvesting fruits and vegetables, Painting and Drawing and building visual art, making and recording lots and lots of music. It's been 3 years since I last been to school, yet I have been constantly busy. I haven't had a job, because the time I spend expressing my creativity cannot be compromised with spiritually polluting activities such as time consuming and mind, body and soul-killing meaningless jobs. Ironicly musicians and artists have never been able to make a living out of their talents. I need to express this creativity or I go gradually insane. Like slowly dying. It's offensive to see how many people don't see writing as much music and drawing/painting as much visual art as I do as "real work", just because they're overly focussed on money as the goal. It's a shame so many people can't understand why one would work for anything other than for money. And I'll be damned if I'll be molded and forced into the same passionless, careless, meaningless shape as them. People see it that way because thats what life has came to be for the "civilized" world. Wake up, Drink Coffee, Work 9 - 5, Sleep, Rinse Repeat. Yes it is sick, but in the older days life was hard lived.. We have a lot of convenience today, but it has lead to a downgrading in quality of foods. Corporations suck, they don't contribute to communities in ways small businesses due. Corporations and worldwide economies has made an abundance of products like Bananas that can't be grown in Massachusetts for instance. Worldwide distribution companies are great, companies like Wal-mart less so. Agree with you on a lot, not all. For the love of the Goddess we need to incorporate nature back into our world, people so hardly walk in grass anymore.. Walking on cement. Hoping for grass and trees to reclaim more of the land thats been stolen from it.. Yes we need homes, shelters, but at what cost?

[SKA]

One important thing for such a community is to build it around a cleanwter supply that is ever present. A clean river? A great freshwater lake? Destilling ocean water? Anyone?