Thread: Are you afraid of death?

Death is what binds everything together no reason to fear it.

Originally Posted by saltyseedog

Actually i have been in many situation where I was close to death or in extreme danger and I always become extremely calm and aware, and not afraid at all. If I did have to die I would accept it, unless it did not feel it is my time to go then I would put all my power into surviving.

Sounds interesting... Can you give an example of these situations?

A car wreck where are car fliped four times landing upside down. Skating my friend hit his head broke his skull. Other serious injuries I've had, I'm always calm. Getting busted by the cops or talking it off and lying to the cops and getting away. Running away from the cops. Things like that, its always been natural for me to be in calm and super aware and just in the moment.

Originally Posted by saltyseedog

A car wreck where are car fliped four times landing upside down. Skating my friend hit his head broke his skull. Other serious injuries I've had, I'm always calm. Getting busted by the cops or talking it off and lying to the cops and getting away. Running away from the cops. Things like that, its always been natural for me to be in calm and super aware and just in the moment.

Ok that is impressive that you can stay calm in situations like that because in my case my heart explodes and goes boom boom boom.

Originally Posted by Mario92

1. You started it
2. Not spamming
3. You continue to inappropriately put words into my mouth. Stop it.

Now then. The fight-or-flight reflex is not absolute. It is something that can be overridden with training. It is your body's natural instinct to breathe, after all, but you can still hold your breath beyond what is comfortable. You can make the body feel pain, even if your instincts tell you to do otherwise. You underestimate the potential of the conscious mind. Through much introspection and thought, I have simply concluded that death is something not to be feared. Pain, certainly. I will run from pain. Pain is not pleasant and holds no immediate benefits. But I shall face death head-on when it comes, if for no other reason than to sate my curiosity.

As a final nail in the coffin of your pathetic argument, I'd like to point out that if your misinterpretation of the fight-or-flight principle were accurate, then there would be no such thing as a peaceful death. Everyone everywhere capable of conscious thought would go out of their way and do anything possible to avoid death. But, we do not see this. Some do, sure, but there are plenty of people who are perfectly content to peacefully slip away. There are thousands upon thousands of successful suicides each year. Look at Carl Sagan. He died with dignity, never backing down or cowering for forgiveness from some god.

You said you stay calm in the face of death because the fight-or-flight reflex can be overriden with training.. so what kind of training did you do? What kind of training are you talking about?

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

You said you stay calm in the face of death because the fight-or-flight reflex can be overriden with training.. so what kind of training did you do? What kind of training are you talking about?

Anything you do that is relevant to quashing your fears or doing something that goes against natural fight-or-flight reflex will strengthen your control over said reflex. I find that just contemplating death every so often and failing to see anything to fear in it works remarkably well. Why fear the unknown? What good does it do? I've essentially desensitized myself to the notion of dying through reasoning.

Now that is interesting desensitizing yourself through reasoning. Eliminating your fears through this process of going against reflexes is a pretty good idea. Nice thinking

This life is like a little sailboat on a vast ocean of death floating and bobbing on the waves able to capsize any moment. The way to overcome the fear of death is to see death inside and outside you right now. When a loved one dies, do not grieve, rather see your own death through their death. Death is in you right now. It is the depth of you. Practice yogic sleep (Yoga Nidra) and you will see the death and the deathless within you. Life feeds on death. Death is the fertile soil. It is the underworld. It will be nice. And you will recognize it when it comes. You will see that it was there all along.

If I die I won't get to see sunrise from mars. Or spend another year with the people I love. Or see the trees again. Death has always been with us, yes. That doesn't make it good. It's a common failure mode to rationalize apparently unsolvable problems as having some important benefits, and thus no longer an unsolvable problem. I don't think you should go quietly into the night. There's nothing to see there.

'Death of the body' ain't 'death of existence.'

I don't like physical pain. unless it is self inflicted or consensual. dying isn't all that easy to do, I must say. I'm not afraid of not existing because it is 'nothing' to me ahah. however, i guess existence to non-existence represents quite a significant loss.
AY CARUMBA! I had a flash of insight that scares me because of how it stared me in the face and I never realised.

Originally Posted by RedfishBluefish

If I die I won't get to see sunrise from mars. Or spend another year with the people I love. Or see the trees again. Death has always been with us, yes. That doesn't make it good. It's a common failure mode to rationalize apparently unsolvable problems as having some important benefits, and thus no longer an unsolvable problem. I don't think you should go quietly into the night. There's nothing to see there.

I didn't say that Death is good. I am not saying that it is bad either. Death just is. It is a fact. A fact of life. Whatever your opinion is of it doesn't change the fact that you are going to die. You named some things that you don't like about death, and these things are true, although I don't think that you will be able to see the sunrise from Mars while you are alive anyway, but I suppose there is a distant possibility.
Death is taboo in our culture. It is good to explore your feelings about death intimately.
Until we face death we will project all our fears onto him and he will appear as a terrifying monster that we will be running from. He is the ultimate bogeyman. But actually, he is part of us that we avoid looking at. We flirt with death every night. Death is our lover who will take us. Death is the flower of life. Live a good life without being afraid of life and death will be the crowning glory. If we fear death then we fear life. I am just talking about coming to terms with reality without any judgements of good and bad.

Death is our lover who will take us.

If she's hot as hell, then bring death on.

Originally Posted by really

'Death of the body' ain't 'death of existence.'

I don't have enough evidence for that proposition for it to be any comfort at all. Moreover if I "chose" to believe that without commensurate evidence I expect I would take less effort to avoid actual death, which I count as a worse fate than just being afraid of death.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

I didn't say that Death is good. I am not saying that it is bad either. Death just is. It is a fact. A fact of life. Whatever your opinion is of it doesn't change the fact that you are going to die. You named some things that you don't like about death, and these things are true, although I don't think that you will be able to see the sunrise from Mars while you are alive anyway, but I suppose there is a distant possibility.

Isn't the fact that there are things I don't like about it enough to call it bad? A hurricane might be a fact; yet it's very much a bad thing, because it hurts and kills people, and those people don't want to be hurt. We wear seatbelts because dying in a car crash is a bad thing we would like to prevent. The rain on the road is a fact of nature, yes; it has no conscious intent to hurt us, yes; it is not evil. And yet we wear seatbelts, because we wish to prevent its fatal effects, and that is the only thing that matters.

I accept that I almost certainly will die at some point in the future. However the way I feel about that, and that I recognise death as something I would like to avoid for as long as possible definitely does impact how far in the future I expect that event to be. And the more life I get to enjoy the better.

And the more life I get to enjoy the better.

There is an old adage: quality over quantity. I don't know about you, but I would rather have 10 years of fun over 20 years of suffering. Being afraid of your own shadow isn't going to improve your quantity or quality of life. You imply that people who aren't afraid of death are indifferent to it, but in reality, most of us would rather carry on living, too. We just choose not to be overly concerned.

I don't think I fear death as much as I fear getting older. It's hard not to get sad when you're 90 years old and you see a couple of hot ass 19 year old babes walking by and there's not a god damn thing you can do about it.

Originally Posted by RedfishBluefish

I don't have enough evidence for that proposition for it to be any comfort at all. Moreover if I "chose" to believe that without commensurate evidence I expect I would take less effort to avoid actual death, which I count as a worse fate than just being afraid of death.

But think about it. If the body is really all that can be 'proven' to die, then why should existence itself cease at death? In understanding consciousness, the point comes down to our identity not strictly being the physicality.

I could push it further to say: 'what evidence can you give me that I am strictly the body; not existence itself?', followed by, 'what evidence is there of death?'. It's probably more insightful to look at as a train of thought, rather than a simple conclusion.

'what evidence can you give me that I am strictly the body; not existence itself?'

To which I would reply: what evidence can YOU give ME that you are anything beyond your body and the electrochemical messages of the brain?

Originally Posted by RedfishBluefish

Isn't the fact that there are things I don't like about it enough to call it bad? A hurricane might be a fact; yet it's very much a bad thing, because it hurts and kills people, and those people don't want to be hurt. We wear seatbelts because dying in a car crash is a bad thing we would like to prevent. The rain on the road is a fact of nature, yes; it has no conscious intent to hurt us, yes; it is not evil. And yet we wear seatbelts, because we wish to prevent its fatal effects, and that is the only thing that matters.

I accept that I almost certainly will die at some point in the future. However the way I feel about that, and that I recognise death as something I would like to avoid for as long as possible definitely does impact how far in the future I expect that event to be. And the more life I get to enjoy the better.

My point is: It is a fact that you are going to die. It is a fact that you are afraid of death. It is a fact that your fear is in vain. It is a fact that death will come too soon for you. Life is very short. With this understanding, do you make lifestyle changes for others' sakes? Are you a vegetarian? Animals also do not want to die.
Nobody or nothing can comfort or console you against the stark reality of death. Nor should you look for consolation. Try preparing for death. Prepare for it everyday because it will come sooner than you would like. It could come tomorrow! It could come in a month. It could come in a year. It could come in 20 years. But it is coming. It could come sweetly if you prepare for it. It could be like a nice letting go into a comfortable hot-tub or like falling asleep in a cozy bed in your beloved's arms. Or you could be scared and tense like a frightened rabbit moments before getting ripped to shreds by an eagle with its heart all thumping. Either way it will be over soon. We need to be honest with life, death, and ourselves. I know for a fact that if you live life not afraid of death than you live life not afraid of life either. Because death and life are two parts of your self. When I almost died on the mountain top the quality of my life increased immensely. Once I realized that death is a friend life became ecstatic.
I am not trying to convince you that death is not scary. I am trying to convince you to face death in spite of your fear, look death in the face, find death in your heart where he hides your whole life waiting for the right moment, and make friends with death. Don't put it off until the last moment because you will panic and you need your wits at that moment.

Originally Posted by Mario92

To which I would reply: what evidence can YOU give ME that you are anything beyond your body and the electrochemical messages of the brain?

That's not really any different than the original problem. It is a matter of devaluing a concept of 'evidence/proof' in the face of what truly prevails in either case; what is always true and yet is neither provable nor disprovable - that is what renders 'evidence' meaningless. In the end there is the subjective context that inevitably gives greater room for discovery, whether you think you are electrochemical messages or a body essentially changes nothing.

Of course, all of the physical/chemical processes in the body are part of the body - however that does not negate any possibility that 'you' are not identified with those processes. The problem is the assumption that we are the body (which is a bodily function) and subsequently believe that the science of the body is therefore the science of our truest existence. It is only as far as science of the body; proving things about the body proves nothing about our deeper identity.

Originally Posted by really

in the face of what truly prevails in either case; what is always true and yet is neither provable nor disprovable

Of course, all of the physical/chemical processes in the body are part of the body - however that does not negate any possibility that 'you' are not identified with those processes.

Something might be true yet unprovable. Something might also be false and unprovable. There is no magic you can use to know what is true without looking at the evidence. And if there were magic that consistently showed you what is true, that would constitute evidence (and be something scientists would be very eager to understand).

There is always the possibility that there is a "soul", yes. There could be some metaphysical entity capable of carrying out all the functions currently done by my brain, viz. deliberation, thought, storage and recall of long term memories, feeling emotion and desires. Or just a vessel of personal identity between reincarnations or something. Yet Ockham said "do not multiply entities unnecessarily". And it would be foolish to pin my hopes on a possibility, anyway.

Dannon Oneironaut, the correct response to the fact that life is too short is to endeavour to make it longer. Because that is what I value: life. Death is not a part of me, death is my enemy. Death is nothing but the end of life, and I rejected that when I embraced life. You are correct in that it would be better, all else being equal, to have a pleasant rather than terrifying last few moments. But that is a price I willingly pay for the small chance that something I think of in those last few minutes might save me — for another day, weak, year, etc.

Never give up, never surrender. /jokes

Dannon Oneironaut, the correct response to the fact that life is too short is to endeavour to make it longer.

You have 80 years to live. You are going to die. Just come to terms with it now, go out, and make the most of life. Living in perpetual fear solves nothing. You'll still live just as long, but your quality will have been significantly improved. You can be at peace with the notion of death but still strive to avoid it. But obsessing over it isn't going to get you anywhere. If anything, it will reduce your lifespan.

Originally Posted by RedfishBluefish

Something might be true yet unprovable. Something might also be false and unprovable. There is no magic you can use to know what is true without looking at the evidence. And if there were magic that consistently showed you what is true, that would constitute evidence (and be something scientists would be very eager to understand).

However if something is true and not provable and there is no evidence; it's because it's not required. The so called 'evidence' is secondary and conceptual. Otherwise, what makes it true? Subjective knowledge is where the truth begins. I am sure that takes authority over conceptual knowledge dictated by science. In this case, it isn't all about proving external existences and showing 'evidence', but understanding two main categories of knowledge itself, that is how we know of life, after all. Why can it not teach us of death?

There is always the possibility that there is a "soul", yes. There could be some metaphysical entity capable of carrying out all the functions currently done by my brain, viz. deliberation, thought, storage and recall of long term memories, feeling emotion and desires. Or just a vessel of personal identity between reincarnations or something. Yet Ockham said "do not multiply entities unnecessarily". And it would be foolish to pin my hopes on a possibility, anyway.

There isn't multiple identities, just degrees of identification - all shifts in consciousness.

Originally Posted by really

However if something is true and not provable and there is no evidence; it's because it's not required

And what about the things that are false and not provable? Am I to believe those, without evidence, as well?

There isn't multiple identities, just degrees of identification - all shifts in consciousness.

The entity being multiplied here would be the soul, a new postulate relative to the matter making up human bodies which I can already see.

Originally Posted by Mario92

You have 80 years to live. You are going to die. Just come to terms with it now, go out, and make the most of life. Living in perpetual fear solves nothing. You'll still live just as long, but your quality will have been significantly improved. You can be at peace with the notion of death but still strive to avoid it. But obsessing over it isn't going to get you anywhere. If anything, it will reduce your lifespan.

Who said anything about living in perpetual fear? I fear death, obviously, because I don't want to die. I don't think about it 24/7; just, you know, when there's an actual risk of dying. But a little bit of fear reminds one what one wants, and to check if the risks of the choice being made in the moment are commensurate with the benefits, when a situation starts looking dangerous. And of course it's a reminder to take advantage of new methods of prolonging life, if they become available.

Well, you will have to come to terms with it one way or another someday. I can't imagine how it would feel to make something inevitable your enemy. I can't imagine the terror of knowing that every moment you are getting closer and closer. If death is your enemy, he is winning, and you will lose, eventually. But if he is your friend life can still be your friend. I sincerely believe that the degree that you are afraid of death is the degree that you are afraid of life. What if the sun was afraid of night? I would feel sorry for the sun for spending the day in fear of the inevitable rather than enjoying shining. What if someone was afraid to exhale and tried to hold their breath in? Or afraid to fall asleep? Really Death is no more scary than falling asleep. Especially when we are old and we have lived a long life. It is pain and suffering that we should fear.

I know that you probably don't want to hear the dharma or believe in it. But here it is: Everything is impermanent! Everything dies! Every moment cells are dying and being replaced in you. Atoms are being replaced within you. You know this. The sun moon and stars all will end. The Universe will end. Everything you love will pass away. You will lose everything you own. Attachment to these impermanence causes suffering. Suffering keeps returning until you come to terms with it.

I can relate. I keep practicing accepting things that get me down. When I lose something precious to me, I have to practice and let it go. My friend just got ripped off all her money $8000, her computer, her guitar, all her clothes and belongings except what she was wearing and left in a strange town in a foreign country and I had to help her come to terms with it. When we die we lose everything, even ourselves. All our plans and dreams. That is the gift of death is to inspire us to live our dreams. I have lived so many dreams and I have only one big dream left to live, and that dream will probably kill me. But I can't think of a better way to die than by living that dream. That dream is that I want to sail all over the world. I know that someday at sea the ocean will take me, but I am not going to let that stop me from following my dream. But who knows, I may die before I sail. Right now I am traveling. Life is not a dress rehearsal!

But we know this already. It should be very liberating and give us inspiration to live life even deeper and more joyfully. But we try to avoid this truth. We try to pretend and fool ourselves that it won't happen to us. Every night as I go to sleep I practice dying and come to terms with it. Of course, i love life! If I didn't love life I would commit suicide. But when life is hard, I don't have to take it seriously, because I know that troubles will pass and at the end I will meet with my friend and lover, Death.

Anyway, I have said all this before. So Sorry. I guess I just feel sad.

Here are some great lyrics by Jim Morrison about Death:

This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again
Can you picture what will be
So limitless and free
Desperately in need...of some...stranger's hand
In a...desperate land......
.... .....
This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
It hurts to set you free
But you'll never follow me
The end of laughter and soft lies
The end of nights we tried to die
This is the end